Forum Discussion
@VRACinqueWell , i will try to respond as well as possible in the best of my capacity to let you understand how i view this and why i would claim that there is subjectivity base on certain parametres . And defining those parametres first would allow us to judge what is and what is not subjective .
First of all everyones in this so call " community " see a different BF as the " Gold standard " and because of this it will be a irreconciable community because no ones is ever happy .. Exemple : those who see Bad company 2 as the gold standard of " destruction " and BF should be all about destruction . Neglecting how some peoples only got farmed on wastedlands with no more covers anywhere and didnt found this experience " fun " ..
Second of all to determine if you are Objective or Subjective it depends on the topic .. If its a matters of " taste " then its always subjective .. If i say i prefer BF2042 because its " fun " its subjective . If you say i prefer classes system because it resonate with me its base on feelings emotions so its subjective etc.. if you follow me .. So i can be subjective and if i am i will have no problems saying it .. I really like Black and red stuff i also like blue and yellow i am not a fan of pastel color , I like the Unreal tournament franchise etc.. thats all base on taste and isnt objective ..
Thats said if i say something improove or harm teamplay then i have to justified it without neglecting counter points .. ill give you exemples
The premise or claim is " The specialist system and loadout system improove team cohesion and teamplay "
The you ask why is that ? Then i proceed to give you exemple that are logical and verifiable .. X and Y players can take X and Y weapons and X and Y gadjets and X and Y specialist to furfill a specific role whithin a squad being able to adapt to terrain types , range , and devices needed to furfill x and y goals ..etc..
Then you tell me The classes system is better because it prevent players from using x and Y type of weapons or gadjets or combinaison of the 2 . therfor could " Force " some players to play in team against their will ..
Its all depends on the premise and how you bring it .
And here is the catch ... If you pretend limiting X and Y weapons to X and Y classes is better because it " force teamplay or so call rock paper scissor "
Then the same will be true without the classes system If you take " Boris with a SMG and a Rocket launcher .. While Boris is alive if a tank come by he can react to it and start shooting at it but if the tank is to close he dosnt have the C4 the other person with a different loadout had right ?
So this so call " rock ppaper scissor " thing exist all the same depending on your loadout choices ..
If we pretend the classes system is more predictable once again unless you have a BF with Zero classes custumisation there was no 100% predictable anything ...
With specialist they are predictable .. you know or should know exactly what each specialist are capable of beside their second gadjet and weapon of choices ...
Unless a classes system had 2 fix gadjet and a single weapons you cant predict anything .. a F2000 and a Ak47 are insanely different guns .. one would shred you at CQC medium range the other wont so there was always elements of suprise ..
And in BF4 this was to the roofs because the 2 gadjet slots were custumizable so suppport without amo and medic without defib and med bag was a common thing ... beside Premade team or squads ..
But even forgeting BF4 ever existed , The same thing peoples claim dosnt exist in BF2042 does exist .. the balance between Smgs and Snipers is the same .. the variety of guns peoples use is about the same as previous BF ... the choice players make will affect their ability to react .. If you take Mckay youll be able to flank . but unable to rocket if you take meds or enable to repair if you take c5 and unable to fly like sundance and reach long distance and so on ..
Also there is a restrictive component in BF2042 you can no longer magically switch to another classes by picking it up on the ground when you pick a weapon its a weapon ...
Then complains may come about Angel " loadout drop " or Falk ability to heal and have another gadjet .. but the reality is her healing gadjet is a locked gadjet wich promote predictability .. If you see a Falk its 100% sure she heal .. If you see an Angel its 100% sure he can resuply and plate ..
As for " Purpose of the roles "
Sundance = Flank deep behind ennemy lines , crowd controle clusters + disabling vehicles or soldier Ui with pulse EMP
Mckay = Similar to planetside 2 light assault MCkay is the pure verticality soldier who can reach behind ennemy in high rise capable to suprise ennemy but also take vantage point over them ..
Boris = Hold position disturbe ennemy frontlines pushes
Irish = Fortify and disable ennemy explosive spam etc..
Thats their primary roles .. The the second gadjet is buisness as usual with the old classes system choices .. C5 trap players or vehicles close range . Rocket kill helis or tanks + vehicles etc.. Med box heal yourself and team mates . Amo box resuply yourself and team mates
But Amo box and Med boxs are weaker than Angel and Falk healing and amo because Amo box resuply rocket 1 tick every 40 seconds not sure the exact time lol but feel like eternity .. same for meds while Angel loadout box can resuply amo at full in 1 resuply with help tremendously when facing a vehicles spam ..
And so on and on ..
Not sure wich video you have watch .. some videos are full squads some video are only 1 or 2 friends some others are me alone with randoms .. And with such tiny players lobby 4 only .. it will be hard to really strategise when we have 1 person in a land vehicles while the other two are in Air buisness etc..
Let say here we are 3 with 1 random we stick in a HIND and dominate the air space what would you expect more ? While on some other match i could be in a Night bird dropping my friends here and there trying to win this game but being not more than 1/16 of the team make things difficult sometime when your team is terrible at times lol ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSAnEUD5gk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSAnEUD5gk
To finish Specialist core design have nothing to do with " COD " per say ./.. But i would say i dont like most specialist faces etc.. I dont like the corny lines .. i dont like the Amazon twitch skin purple thing .. I dont like anything like that .. But i know for a fact that the system itself is really good and might have not being bashed as much if it wasnt for those Corny one liners and silly trendy haircuts and so on and all those were faceless soldiers with full face mask on ..
This is a story that never ends. What could be a compromise if we were to have 4 classes with far greater flexibility. Just a talk from a theoretical point of view. Would it be possible so both parties would be satisfied. After all, everyone wants a good BF. I do.
- X-Sunslayer-X4 years agoSeasoned Ace@SirBobdk our esteemed guru does not need compromises, you need to be alinged with his teachings or be left to be forgotten in better games of the past...
"this is the way" - SirBobdk4 years agoSeasoned Ace
@X-Sunslayer-X wrote:
@SirBobdkour esteemed guru does not need compromises, you need to be alinged with his teachings or be left to be forgotten in better games of the past...
"this is the way"Yaa the fronts are pulled up hard.
But We also have the next BF to think about. I would argue that the game can not continue in the same way. So a compromise is probably necessary, and then we all have to cut a toe even Stew360. - X-Sunslayer-X4 years agoSeasoned Ace@SirBobdk hey i have come up with compromises and plenty other have had sameish or even better ideas....
its up to the other party to come up with one of their own isntead of
" dismissing everything that is not to their liking as anecdotal evidence" - SirBobdk4 years agoSeasoned Ace
@X-Sunslayer-X
I know. It was a diplomatic attempt from my side without shooting on someone. - 4 years ago@SirBobdk Yes it could . Base game should remain as envisioned and as planned while portal modification tools could be made to accomodate 2042 specialists to be place in the 4 categories with legacy classes limitation in gadjet usage weapons etc..
Dice could whiteflag a permanent Portal mode that allow progression and xp that put " specialist " into a classes restricted setup ..
But AllOutWarfare should remain the experience it was envisioned to be and expanded uppon ..
Portal was made for legacy stuff if they desperatly want it they can have it there and wont be to much work for dice ..
They need to update portal editor to accomodate new rules for classes/specialist restriction .. But also themselves create a mode where Mckay , sundance , Dozer are Assault restricted to traditional type assault gears etc.. and allow progressions ,Xp and medals in those vanilla featured portal servers with tool to prevent players willingness to boost one another ..
Also Portals stats should be separated from Base game if stats ever come out - X-Sunslayer-X4 years agoSeasoned Ace@SirBobdk this thread was never about anything within the same universe of compromising this entire thread is one person standing on the hill he chose to die on and he will rather take the entire game with him then compromise.... it is actually beyond me how not a singel mod has closed this thread weeks ago....
but i have my own ideas whya that might be
(glances at tinfoil) - Psubond4 years agoLegend
am i the only one that looks at specialists as a gadget slot and not a class/character? the way i look at it, in a mode called all out warfare you can pick any combination of weapons and gadgets (up to two) that you want. there is a pool to choose from for slot one and a pool to choose from for slot two and you get one from each pool. the voice you hear or the character others see when they see you is basically a skin for gadget one slot.
i like the flexibility to pick what i want
- 4 years ago
@SirBobdkKinda yes with an expanded tool that allow moddable " Specialist/classes" but those wouldn't be white flag for XP .
Dice could make a portal template and a Legacy AOW permanent mode where poeoples could either use vanilla setting code to start a server that is white listed or they could start a matchmaking in " legacy AOW " From the featured mode and get full xp , progression .. But specialist subclass whithin a classes would be limited to certain weapons and gadjets similar to old BF games Isnt it why portal was created in the first place ? - 4 years ago@SirBobdk Well with the numbers of empty servers i have seen its kinda useless to keep them open .. Also as i said They need to create a white flaged template code you get from BF portal https://portal.battlefield.com/experience/
So peoples can setup clan match etc.. with the " Legacy AOW " if they want or community servers that allow XP but monitored to prevent boosting etc..
But also need to put on a permanent featured experience matchmaking for Legacy AOW ... this way everyones happy ?
Is it a good compromise enough for you ? Those who love the new system will play the new system those who prefer legacy system will play it this way and both will have access to progressions , Medals , XP etc.. - 4 years ago@SirBobdk https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/DICE-how-to-please-everyones-Classes-amp-Specialist-2042-Vanilla/m-p/11235465#M83127 Here is your compromise mate and its a pretty good one .. It has everything peoples would need from servers browser already in portal to white flagged full progression games with " Artificial limitation " on classes or subgroups of specialist
- SirBobdk4 years agoSeasoned Ace@Stew360
Those who love the new system will play the new system those who prefer legacy system will play it this way and both will have access to progressions , Medals , XP etc..
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Yes it could work. But still, Rental Servers are better than free. Empty servers are just removed with filter. Stable servers provide better flow and gameplay while maintaining a community. Or at least thats how it used to be. - 4 years ago
@SirBobdk
Well to be honest i despise players owned servers with lots of abuse etc..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac9_1hwXeww
As you can see here ... I got banned left and right non stop because i took whatever vehicles the admin friend wanted or i kept killing them etc.. and this happen recently as well while going back to BF4 lol so yeah
Still i think portal has democratised the process and allow anyones to host a servers - X-Sunslayer-X4 years agoSeasoned Ace@Stew360 but isn't that anecdotal evidence?
one badmin does not mean the entire RSP is a horrible idea....
and by what can be seen you either screwed with the owner in some way because i doubt he just randomly calls you out by name in global chat just to ban you.... - 4 years ago@X-Sunslayer-X
One bad admin wasnt the picture here .. it has been since BF3 admin abuse over admin abuse at least for good players .. Me and my clan were always getting banned , switch team etc.. non stop it became a meme at some point so its not anecdotes .. Of course Bad players dont have to worry they are there to be farmed By admin and friends - SirBobdk4 years agoSeasoned Ace@Stew360
My opinion both as former Admin and player has been that Clan Servers in most cases were properly run. And yes then there were servers run by single people who abused their power. I have only experienced few problems with Clan Servers in the past. Sorry that you have experienced the opposite. - Psubond4 years agoLegend
can't believe no one posted this:
- VME234 years agoRising Hotshot
@X-Sunslayer-X wrote:
@Stew360but isn't that anecdotal evidence?
one badmin does not mean the entire RSP is a horrible idea....
and by what can be seen you either screwed with the owner in some way because i doubt he just randomly calls you out by name in global chat just to ban you....Pff ... I got multiple bans in BF4 because of:
- not using the allowed loadout per the class that I picked to play with
- for picking the recon class
- for playing with the tank or heli and dominating
- for being a good player and having high KDA + Score
Me personally, I hate the 'custom' BF experience and I don't want to be part of this and maybe that's why I will not play Portal ever - because of previous bad experiences with BF4's custom servers / badmins.
@Stew360 wrote:
@SirBobdk Yes it could . Base game should remain as envisioned and as planned while portal modification tools could be made to accomodate 2042 specialists to be place in the 4 categories with legacy classes limitation in gadjet usage weapons etc..
But AllOutWarfare should remain the experience it was envisioned to be and expanded uppon ..
Portal was made for legacy stuff if they desperatly want it they can have it there and wont be to much work for dice ..I totally agree with what Stew360 mentioned here, this is what I'm also discussing with the rest of the community via other BF official channels like Twitter & Discord.
The devs should stick with their vision and expand it - I'm speaking about 'All Out Warfare' mode. I don't want the base game (=AoW) to be altered by the community.
Portal game mode should be that 'custom' / legacy experience that the vocal part of the community wants.
- SirBobdk4 years agoSeasoned Ace
@VME23
I don't want the base game (=AoW) to be altered by the community.
Portal game mode should be that 'custom' / legacy experience that the vocal part of the community wants.
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The size of the player base determines the future of BF2042 and what Dice chooses to do and right now its seems going fast in the wrong direction. Something needs to be changed and I'm glad I'm not DICE.I hope they solve it.
- X-Sunslayer-X4 years agoSeasoned Ace@VME23 Pff ... I got multiple bans in BF4 because of:
- not using the allowed loadout per the class that I picked to play with
- for picking the recon class
- for playing with the tank or heli and dominating
- for being a good player and having high KDA + Score
"Me personally, I hate the 'custom' BF experience and I don't want to be part of this and maybe that's why I will not play Portal ever - because of previous bad experiences with BF4's custom servers / badmins"
but why go in a rented server with clear rule-set and then break said rules and not expect consequence? that is like going to someones house and behaving like an arse and then be suprised if oyu get kicked out.....
if i go and play BF4 i would either look for a server with a ruleset i can/will abide by or exactly what want.. do i want 24/7 TDM norsha-canals no questions asked? i can go find it
do i want a sweaty lobby of high skill players i can look for that...
but breaking a servers rules and then playing the victim card is somewhat strange to me.... - 4 years ago
@X-Sunslayer-Xhttps://youtu.be/9Zu-Yku9I8U oh look ... isnt this man familiar to you ?