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GamerlnParadise's avatar
4 years ago

Vehicle Balance and Role Suggestions

Based on my experience using various vehicles, and after seeing the vehicle changes in the newest patch, I really need to give my input on the state of vehicle balancing against infantry and other vehicles.  Rather than just nerfing damage on everything until it is useless, I believe making indirect changes to counter-weapons and other stats will allow vehicles to have more defined roles without feeling overpowered.

First, the recoiless rifle

  • Increase projectile velocity significantly.  There are already AP rounds for guns that make it much easier to damage at range, so it doesn't make sense why the dedicated anti-armor weapon has such difficulty hitting moving targets.  Making it easier to hit fast targets means that even if a Bolte can hit and run hard with a 30mm, the driver must also play more carefully, as being in the open is much more dangerous now.

Next, lock on weapons

  • Fix the bugs not showing lock on status.  It should be obvious that I shouldn't have to wonder if my weapon is working properly when trying to fire.  There have been too many times where I'm holding the fire button on a target and the missile fires before I even hear a tone.  Others might not try that trick, so they hesitate to fire at targets they could easily hit.
  • Increase jet lock on ranges.  A jet shouldn't have to be 400m away to even start locking on to a tank or heli.  This lowers overall damage per strafe and makes them a poor choice compared to choppers, which can hover in and out of the maximum range to avoid AA fire.  Especially in dogfights vs choppers, where jets should be able to achieve air superiority over them more easily.
  • AA vehicles should also have greater range for their AA missiles.  Since their weapons are more advanced than MPADS, they should reflect this by having greater range.
  • Increase SOFLAM guided weapon lock on range.  The SOFLAM makes targets more visible to lock on sensors, so it should boost the range that guided weapons can lock at beyond normal.  This encourages teamwork and allows easier positioning to deal with threats that are playing hard to get.

Now, armored vehicles

  • Get rid of the turret acceleration. There should still be rotation speed limits, as no one wants to sneak up on a tank that can instantly turn 180 to shoot you.  It was fine for WW2 tanks in BF5, but 3-plane stabilized future tanks should not feel sluggish at all like they do. It also makes aiming unnecessarily difficult.
  • Increase muzzle velocity of tanks shells significantly.  These are the biggest maps in BF history, so tanks need to be able to lead and hit targets at range for them to be effective.  Real modern tank rounds travel at speeds of 1,200-1,600 m/s, so it is a joke to have issues with lead and drop for hitting a car at a couple hundred meters.  This is especially true for AA, since choppers in this game are more maneuverable than they have ever been.  A 57mm AA should not have trouble hitting an almost stationary transport chopper.
  • Increase direct hit and splash damage.  It shouldn't take 4 direct hits from a 40mm shell to kill a single infantry.  It shouldn't take 4 splash hits from a 57mm shell to kill a single armored infantry.  A direct hit from cannon round larger than 30mm should instantly kill a person anywhere, even with full armor.  The fact that 57mm damage and ammo count is being REDUCED is ridiculous.  I found it mediocre in my testing and was going to recommend a buff before the latest patch notes, and their decision to nerf made it clear they don't understand the role of armor.
  • Reduce Wildcat health significantly.  Even before all these suggestions, I found the Wildcat has too much health for what should be a lightly-armored AA vehicle.  With my changes, when fully occupied it would have a heavy armament to deal with any threat, as 4 people working together in a vehicle should be a force to be reckoned with.  But it should be a glass cannon, too slow to escape if it pushes too hard, and too fragile to survive infantry that sneak up or other vehicles hunting it down in order to open up the airspace again.

Jet changes

  • Remove the spread increase and increase the bullet velocity.  It's embarrassing how hard it is to get consistent hits on anything, and it only gets worse the longer you try to shoot.  The velocity increase is needed to be more effective fighting helis, since they can dodge rounds so easily right now.
  • Significantly increase damage for the 30mm.  The fact that it does less damage than a chopper or even scout car is downright insulting.  Attack jets in BF3 could destroy multiple tanks in a properly lined up strafing run, but now they can barely kill infantry standing still  https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield2042/comments/rbzx8l/upcoming_patch_further_balance_changes_to_ground/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3  The changes made in BF4 with Active Protection Systems were bad enough, but this makes jets utterly useless for anything other than trying to spam 1 or 2 AGMs at tanks before choppers shoot you down.

Helicopter changes

  • Heli flight ceilings need to be lowered like they were in past BFs. Jets need the verticality to counter the helis maneuverability, but having a chopper hover at the altitude where your jet turns to molasses means you can only attack from below, giving them a completely unneeded advantage.  This also makes helicopters more vulnerable to regular cannon and dumb rocket fire, as a heli can't hover too far up for gunfire to have no chance of hitting, or easily flank without a being locked onto.  It would also reduce the gunner spam from outside AA range, as you can no longer slowly drop from max altitude while spraying, lowering the 30mm abuse potential without having to decrease the cannon damage.

In short, making vehicles more vulnerable to infantry and other counter weapons will reduce their dominance and require them to play a more specific role without having to nerf damage values on everything.  Improving high-caliber tank cannons will make different vehicle types more viable and encourage rock-paper-scissor vehicle choices throughout a game, rather than a single meta.

2 Replies

  • Totally agree with you.

    You haven't mentioned the Transport vehicles tho, since they aren't being recogniced at all at the current stage. Imo the MAV and the Transporthelis should get their own category. Just move the nightbird to attack air, with the jet and attack chopper, and move the mav to the Transporthelis.

    At the current stage everyone is using the nightbird over the transporters and the mav is downright broken and useless anyway. I don't see why the nightbird is in the same category as the Transporters anyway.

    For the MAV i'd suggest at least 2 passengers seats with no weapons attached to it, so people actually leave the oversized toaster for others to spawn.

    Buff the 30 mm since it hits like a wet noodle.

    Buff and fix the missile array so it actually becomes the "anti-air missile Array" it is supposed to be.

    Buff the health or armor so it actually is an armored troop transport. It doesnt have to be armored like a tank, but at least let it be better armored like the bolte.

    The Transporthelis work fine imo they fit their needs.

    Tl;dr: move MAV and Transporthelicopters to their own category, nightbird to attack air.

    Fix the god damn MAV


  • @LoneSomeW0lf wrote:

    Totally agree with you.

    You haven't mentioned the Transport vehicles tho, since they aren't being recogniced at all at the current stage. Imo the MAV and the Transporthelis should get their own category. Just move the nightbird to attack air, with the jet and attack chopper, and move the mav to the Transporthelis.

    At the current stage everyone is using the nightbird over the transporters and the mav is downright broken and useless anyway. I don't see why the nightbird is in the same category as the Transporters anyway.

    For the MAV i'd suggest at least 2 passengers seats with no weapons attached to it, so people actually leave the oversized toaster for others to spawn.

    Buff the 30 mm since it hits like a wet noodle.

    Buff and fix the missile array so it actually becomes the "anti-air missile Array" it is supposed to be.

    Buff the health or armor so it actually is an armored troop transport. It doesnt have to be armored like a tank, but at least let it be better armored like the bolte.

    The Transporthelis work fine imo they fit their needs.

    Tl;dr: move MAV and Transporthelicopters to their own category, nightbird to attack air.

    Fix the god damn MAV


    I only just unlocked the MAV, but from my limited experience what you say makes sense.  The 30mm on it is useless the way it is.  Give the MAV the Bolte 30mm and add 2 more passenger seats.  I also agree the Nightbird shouldn't be a "transport" just because it holds 4 people.  Putting them in the same category as jets and attack helis also means there will be fewer of them total, which will further justify buffing their weapons.

    Other notes from my more recent experience:

    • Buff the 50mm cannon projectile velocity on all vehicles
    • The Wildcat 40mm rounds should get proximity fuses against aircraft.  The Bofors 40mm in BF1 had airburst shells, so a 130 year more advanced version shouldn't be lacking them.
    • The Hokum pilot 30mm cannon upgrade is completely useless.  Combined with my reduction to the number of helis and the improving the effectiveness of AA, the direct and splash damage of all 30mm's and the Nightbird 20mm's should be increased back to their original values.  I'm fine with keeping the dispersion values and blast radii the same for now, as lowering the heli altitude ceiling to 600m will reduce long-range spamming anyway.
    • Jet flight models need improvement.  Lower the minimum/stall speed to 180kph so pilots can actually get good strafing runs without falling out of the sky at 280 like they do currently.  This will also help the Su-57 in dogfights against the F-35, especially if the F-35 tries to use hover mode to force an overshoot.  Combined with my missile range, cannon damage, and projectile velocity increases, dogfights won't be a battle of who can spam flares and repair tools the most.
    • Some fine-tuning of the brakes for scout cars would be nice.  Just tapping them while in a turn makes you do a fishtail 180.

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