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rainkloud's avatar
rainkloud
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago

Vehicle Balance/Improvement proposal for update #4

Before I jump into the changes I wanted to invite everyone to view the the vehicle weapon damage sheet which is largely complete (but still ongoing) and can be viewed here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yf2DcVsHlT8NLg_VmSeRE9jY3TmSpGqu7ufXD0QiJXs/edit?usp=sharing

 

Please note the (many) limitations as the sheet does not have access to things like rate of fire, ammo count, damage drop off over distance and so on. I also want preface this proposal by saying that it was not based off the sheet alone. "Management by Spreadsheet" is cursed and should only be employed if no other options are available. The damage stats are just one component taken into consideration and I have taken care to augment it with actual gameplay experience so as to gain a more complete understanding of all the variables and dependencies involved.

 

Over seven years ago I posted this balance video. Fortunately I feel like at least with respect to vehicles, 2042 doesn't warrant a whole video, certainly not for air balance changes alone. That is not to say that there aren't serious issues but I feel they are fewer in number in more easily fixed. Most of the big issues at launch were thankfully dealt with in the first few patches and DICE are well positioned to handle the remainder within then next few weeks which would put it light years beyond BF4 which took almost two years IIRC to get things reasonably sorted with regard to vehicle balance.

 

With that out of the way I'll dive into my proposal:

 

Bug Fixes
 
  • Vehicle AA missiles are able to be reliably dodged by at least the Nightbird and Attack Helicopters. This is hugely detrimental to Vehicle AA missiles as opponents already have dedicated countermeasures for this purpose and the ability to dodge unfairly extends the lifespan of these craft while punishing VAA missile users who are using the correct tool for the job. FXM33 MANPAD seems to be unaffected by this as while I've been able to get the missile to miss me on the first pass it quickly recovers and lands a hit.

  • Unable to lock onto empty vehicles - players can exploit this to break locks by exiting/reentering vehicle. Players need to be able to lock on to empty vehicles with lock on weapons and SOFLAM to remedy this.

  • Vehicles with no room for more passengers still have the box around their icon making it seem you can spawn on them when in fact you cannot. Either the box should not appear when full or there should at least be some indicator to let you know that while it is a spawnable vehicle, it has no more room for additional occupants.

  • I've noticed that I still receive hitmarkers on enemies that are KO'd but still in the "reviable" phase. Would like to see those removed as they cause confusion and make it appear there are still live enemies to engage.

  • IR Smoke fails to defeat Sundance Anti Armor Nades 100% of the time
Balance
 

25mm Jet cannon - Appears to be demonstrably inferior to 30mm version contributing to the general under performance of jets.

  • Allow 25mm to penetrate Bolte armor at 3 damage per shot at max damage

  • Double max/min damage vs LATV4/Hovercraft, Stealth Jet/Scout Heli, and Attack Helicopter. This would make the 25mm the preferred weapon for attacking those targets while the 30mm would be superior against Tanks, IFV and Transport helicopters.

  • I'm holding back on suggesting spread decrease for the cannons as attacking infantry is not the purpose of jets. They CAN do it but its not their primary function (In Battlefield that is) and they are designated as "Vehicle Killers" in the UI. I agree with this concept as helicopters assume the primary duty of infantry control from the aerial side and adding jets to that would be oppressive for our colleagues on the ground.

Vehicle Missile AA Damage vs Transport Helicopters - Although we want to make sure big Transports are able to perform their intended duties, the AA missile damage vs them seems unusually low.

  • AA Anti-Aircraft Missile CRT Mk5 damage vs TRN HEL 14.5 > 20 (Is > Proposed)

  • AIM 9Z IR Missile damage vs TRN HEL 15 > 20

  • AIM-260R Radar Missile damage vs TRN HEL 8.6 > 14

Max ceiling Jets Vs Heli - My experience has been that these are currently equal. In order to give jets an advantage of heli in terms of offense and defense I would suggest giving jets about 100m higher ceiling than helicopters

 

IFV 57mm Cannon - This weapon is overperforming my expectations as it seems superior to the 40mm in nearly every way sans rate of fire. It even has the same ammo capacity (12 rounds) as the 40mm despite being a bigger shell.

  • Ammo capacity 12 > 8

  • Damage vs all targets reduced by 10%

IFV 40mm Cannon - Pretty well balanced but I do believe the direct infantry damage should be increased to make it a 3 shot kill vs the current 4.

  • Direct damage vs Infantry 27 > 35

30mm Cannon (Ground) - I suspect by now everyone has seen the potency this weapon has, particularly with the Bolte!

  • Possibly just give it the same adjustments as the air version received in the recent patches which included damage and blast radius adjustments?

  • Possibly adjust rate of fire?

  • Possibly let overheat kick in sooner?

Any of these or some combination of them should do the trick.

 

MBT HEAT Shell - Although HEAT shells do confer a big bonus to blast radius and damage this is offset a bit too far IMO by it's poor anti vehicle performance and slower shell velocity.

  • Increase the vehicle damage vs all vehicles to match that of the MPAT shell with the notable exception of damage vs MBT/MAV which will remain as is. This will still leave the MPAT as the better anti vehicle solution as it will do better damage vs other tanks and MAV's as well as have better range/accuracy thanks to the faster shell velocity.

Vehicle LMG - This one I don't have too much experience with, but there seems so be a consensus that the LMG is outclassed by the HMG so perhaps look at increasing rate of fire or perhaps increasing the damage done at close range?

 

General Improvements

 

  • Air vehicle freelook too slow even with max setting (mouse) - Increase the maximum setting in Options menu

  • Increase the distance at which the distance to flag is shown on HUD while in vehicle which will allow players to set attack targets and give much needed range info.

  • Your personal icon on Big Map needs to have a distinct color and/or pulsate so you can more quickly find yourself when viewing it.

  • Provide jets and helicopters with dynamic/predictive crosshairs that give the player a better idea of where their shots will land based on their trajectory.

  • Need indicator on HUD that shows which side the next rocket/wire guided missile will be fired from as this important to know given that trajectory will vary depending on which side is being launched.

  • You cannot see which seats are available before you spawn into a vehicle. Players should be able to click on an in-play vehicle and see how many and which seats are available as well as vehicle health so that they better plan their entrance.

  • Would like to see IRNV and FLIR return. For example, maybe it takes the place of the "repair system" upgrade to help balance it. Or maybe even a specific map where everyone had it equipped so all are on level playing field. I understand this a controversial subject so I would entertain having it be a Portal only option so that if players don't want use or be in games where others are, then they can enjoy that option.

Jet Specific Improvements

One of the challenges with jets is how to integrate them without letting them become dominant. And one of the things I lament about BF 2042 is despite the game taking place 20 years past BF4 it doesn't feel quite as high tech with the exception of some of the vehicles themselves (which look great by the way!) With that in mind I would like to give jets a little indirect boost to their targeting to allow them to play a little more efficiently.

 

  • Towards that end I would propose having enemy vehicles (air and ground) within 900m highlighted by a green box along with range to target displayed. Range is especially important to jets given their fast speed and weapons like Radar missile which will only lock on targets with a certain range after firing.

Further down the road I'd also like to see an alternative to the A2G missile in the form of the GBU-53/B StormBreaker guided bomb. Targeting would function similar to how Angel calls in his crates. Pilot would switch to GBU and then manipulate a circular target around (control of plane would be suspended during this phase) and then click when satisfied with the position which would launch the bomb towards the intended target area. Although not a lock on weapon, any vehicle that was within its cone would receive the missile warn so they could take evasive action. Enemy infantry would not be as fortunate making the GBU primarily an anti infantry tool. It would further distinguish itself by having a slower velocity than the A2G missile and do slightly less damage to vehicles but with a larger blast radius.

 

Please let me know if you have any balance/bug/improvement issues to be added!

6 Replies

  • I'd like to see vehicle acceleration tweaked right now everything with wheels is Forza exotics with cannons... The wildcat can lap the E1 building in Renewal before infantry can even cross the short way even with the wildcat doing stop and goes. Standing next to a tank they'll peel from c5 distance from a dead stop in a few steps of infantry and with 360 view you'll never even get close without dropping in or using Mackay to grapple to it. <-- This is why people resort to the c5 drone everyone in vehicles hates. The transport acceleration makes sense with the light armor/windows.

    The ground cannons could use some drop or additional spread at long range being sniped with them at 300-500m just encourages camping. Though with splash/dmg reduction that might resolve it too.

  • It appears the 30mm and 57mm suggestions are being addressed in update 3.1

    It's a shame they didn't get a chance to fix the lock on empty vehicles bug as well as the heli missile dodging bug before heading off to vacation.

  • rainkloud's avatar
    rainkloud
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago

    Added:

    • IR Smoke fails to defeat Sundance Anti Armor Nades 100% of the time
  • Everyone keeps forgetting the MAV *sad armored Transport noises*

    I really like having a ground version of troop transport, but the MAV is underperforming heavily.

    My Suggestion: Add 2 passengers seats with no weapons attached, so people can just spawn.

    Buff the 30 mm: either remove the ammo count, increase dmg overall or alternatively increase rate of fire.

    Increase health or Armor to make it a bit more tanky, since it compares to a Bolte right now.

    And fix the bug where teammates spawned dont count towards Progression.

    Another Idea is to move the MAV to a seperate category with the Transporthelis and move the nightbird to the attack Air options.

    I really like the idea of the MAV but the only way to effectively playing it is to hide behind a rock, so that gunners cant shoot anything and leave the vehicle so other people can join.

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