How Realistic is F122? (According to an F1 Engineer)
Interesting video:
Forum Discussion
48 Replies
- @Ultrasonic_77 I mentioned it in my last reply. There's a whole segment in the video just about how wrong the gear ratios are.
What are gear ratios if not torque delivery/traction? That and power curves are what determine what gear you'll want to be in on corner entry and what gear you'll be upshifting to on corner exit.
Tyre model will obviously influence that too, but there's an entire segment in the video just to show how off the torque is. @mariohomohsomewhat off-topic and regarding the telemetry you've posted.
I don't like the guy but VER is a beast. Keeping the gear low to deliver more power out of corners putting 0.7s onto Sainz which isn't a poor driver at all.
(I wouldn't like to be his gearbox tho but this isn't my problem haha)- @mariohomoh I drove a sim at red bull racing when my company was invited there. It's not the Sim they use for real F1. Still, there isn't really much differencies to iracing or similar. As I said the biggest difference is the screen and motion and just overall immersion you get. Had they given me a normal monitor and chair I would've said I'm playing rfactor2.
About ffb in iracing. I have the game since 2016 and ffb on a Thrustmaster hasn't really changed whatsoever. Sure, there's updates but there's a massive difference in wheel support between direct drive and consumer wheels.
Whilst in F1 I feel like a direct drive is a waste of money as there's barely wheel support (yes it does feel better and yes it's much stronger) but overall you're not getting close to the potential of a 1000€+ wheel. - @Ultrasonic_77 Yeah or that. Don't think it's unreasonable but then they also could've said that the result here is not gonna be representative as it's different gears and different levels of traction.
@Wollcott wrote:
@Ultrasonic_77Yeah or that. Don't think it's unreasonable but then they also could've said that the result here is not gonna be representative as it's different gears and different levels of traction.It depends what you mean by 'representative'. I'd argue what they did was far more representative than Alex trying to mirror real F1 gear changes would have been, since it mirrored what (good) players of the game will be doing.
Don't misunderstand me, I do think the current unrealistic high-gear meta is something I'd love to see fixed. In a recent post somewhere I actually put this second only to wanting to seeing BIG improvements in the online experience as my wishes for F1 23.
- @Ultrasonic_77 I mean it can't be representative if you use higher gears to achieve a similar traction model. That already confirms that traction is very unrealistic.
To really compare real life traction to ingame they have to use the same gears. You can't compare two things and say it's representative if both things are done in a different style. They look at telemetry and say that it's fairly similar out of the corner but then it is only like that because you "cheat" yourself out of the lower traction area by using higher gears. If they really wanted to compare every time a real F1 car goes down under traction in 2nd gear, then you gotta do the exact same thing. @Wollcott That's still very nice, you getting to hop on a rig there in Milton Keynes! And experiencing it all on their bespoke wheel and pedals, must have been quite the day. Assuming you were not using consumer grade equipment in the rig?
FFB is definitely subpar on a wheel in F1 games. They do have what I'd say is the best pad experience in the industry, for whatever it's worth. And since they do cater to a way broader audience than that of iRacing or even ACC, I'd say that's quite the feat.
Does that imply that they're acquitted from the supbar wheel FFB? Most definitely not. I want better FFB on my wheel, and while F1 doesn't deliver that I'll probably spend relatively more time playing ACC in the foreseeable future. I do agree that buying a 1k+ rig to play only Codemasters' F1 games if would be a waste of money.
You see, if we had not been so hyperbolic on the precious posts this thread would he way slimmer. Like the "in an F1 car you could go flat in 2nd gear". I selected 2022 quali fastest laps on Spa, but the Twitter bot I got the chart from is freely accessible and anyone can pull telemetry data from any lap in recent official sessions. Not a betting man, but I feel confident in saying that exiting a corner in 2nd gear full throttle is quite the exception, and saying otherwise is not representative of the sport at all.
F1 22 still does not deliver a satisfactory experience in torque delivery or even throttle response, but I honestly think we'd be better off making fairer comparison here.
Back to the video, I'm still a bit confused about what you believe was left out? They even plotted the engine speed and gears chart. That's a visual representation of how off the torque curves and consequently the traction are in the game.
- @mariohomoh Spa is a bad track to show throttle modulation in 5th gear as those parts are simply corners which they would run off the track if they kept it full throttle.. They modulate the throttle in those parts not because of a lack of traction.. Not disagreeing with the general thesis at all, just the example is not matching your point.
- @Meza994 throttle modulation at 5th gear is not the point. Going flat in 2nd is.
Anyway, still easy peasy. Just tweet #TelemetryRequest 2022 Belgian GP VER SAI Q3, swapping the GP name and driver tags for different ones that you deem more "properly racey" 🙂
This is not aimed at Meza, by the way. It's for anyone curious to check real life data. - @mariohomoh Yeah okay that's is true. (Gears in video) considering that you can argue that traction is very off because of the way gears/torque is applied, even tho in their comparison it's fairly similar. Both of the comparisons they did go hand in hand. Taken the gear comparison into account it does make sense and is somewhat "representative". I still would've liked them to really do both things the same way to really see the exact differencies in traction loss.
About the 2nd gear; realistically there will barely be moments when you can go flat all the way thru, probably not at all. While you can go flat until you might experience wheel spin and loss of traction in the game meanwhile you would spin immediately as you touch the throttle more than like 30-40% input.
I'm not sure what equipment was on the sim, nowhere did It say anything and I also didn't ask what wheel this was. I have certainly never seen it somewhere before.
About your pad comment, I'm not sure if I fully understand. I think the pad support in F1 has massively dropped between 21 and 22. While it's let's say "more fair" that pads lost vibration, at the same time it means feedback has gone worse. So I wouldn't say F1 is the best game for a pad. I have only played one racing game on a pad and that's F1 until last year.
But looking at AC or ACC it seems quite obvious that there's a lot more potential for controller feedback and I'm not talking about simple vibration that indicates when you lose Traction or when you lock up.
