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LuckyNico92's avatar
LuckyNico92
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago

Why F1 2020 was so good (and why Codies need to go that road again)

To any former major CM Forum people (like @BarryBL), as well as all other people reading this:

I need to say something...

As you guys know, I love the F1 games franchise, but at the same time, I criticize it the most if there's something wrong.

Now, don't get me wrong, F1 22 is a good game, and they did a good job, but honestly, I can't play F1 22 AND have fun right now, because it has so many problems in which I just think: Does EA blatantly ignore these problems? I'm referring to awful car drivability, overpowered AI, far from the fact that the guy who recently became champion in Suzuka (I won't say the name) dominates everything in every session in Career Mode, and so many more problems I can't possibly list up because it would be faster to list up the good things about F1 22.

And while I was playing F1 2020 yesterday, finishing up my F2 season in Driver Career and joining AlphaTauri, I got myself thinking... What would be if Codemasters broke free from EA?

Now, this is pure speculation, but there are many reasons why F1 2020 was such an amazing title, which therefore underlines the statement:

  • The AI are actually beatable on your desired AI level. Back in F1 2020, I can match Expert AI very well, and nowadays, I feel like 86 is my preferred level to go for in F1 2020. I tried Master difficulty prior, but honestly, I'm no Master material.
  • F2 AI in F1 2020 is easy to beat, even without custom setups, which shows that F2 is truly a rookie series for F1. Compare this with F1 22's F2 AI, and compared with 2020's F2 AI, that one is a nightmare.
  • The cars in F1 2020 are very grippy, allowing for great cornering speeds, which is essential if you want to touch AI on higher levels. And if you know the limit and have a good setup, it's very easy to drive.
  • Damage in F1 2020 has a far lower effect than in both successors. If you scratch the wing, even lose the end plate, the car is still decently drivable, even in Monaco. It's still realistic though, where if you have higher damage, the car gets tougher to drive.
  • Many minor things that were removed from the successors actually improve the quality of the game, like the specific commentator lines when you go to the first race in Career Mode, and this especially in My Team, where the commentators mention that there is an 11th team in the field, along with so many specific interview questions if you hire certain drivers in My Team, telling you a bit about the drivers. This makes the game much more immersive and gives those scheduled press interviews the something that it needs. This also goes for that celebration scene with the team if a driver became champion, where the champion celebrates with the team in the pits, which touches me every time.
  • And finally, and that was the best thing about the game, the race results in F1 2020 aren't predetermined. Where in F1 2021 after a certain update and in F1 22 it was only one driver to win every single race, back in F1 2020, every driver and every team had a chance for the win, even a lower team like Renault or AlphaTauri, or a slower driver like Lance Stroll. This also adds to the realism, as crazy race results like these are rare, but not impossible (Baku 2017 and Monza 2020 anyone?).

Now back to the speculation, if Codies broke free from EA, they would not be restricted to the rules and pressure of EA anymore. The main problem is that EA is trying to turn F1 games into a 1000%, pinpoint exact, unmistakable, highly accurate representation of F1 as seen on TV, and on such a tight schedule in which you release one game every year, there is no time to work and test on everything important that makes F1 games fun to play.

Codemasters used to prioritize playability and eradicating all visible bugs and glitches at the end of the development process, close to the game's release, and afterwards, they worked on the quality of the game, while also trying to stay as accurate as possible to real life representations. I remember the flag that shows during the starting grid first appeared in F1 2020, and Mercedes didn't have the black livery until later in the season, which Codies made permanent with an update. This goes to show that Codies also tries to show passion to real life representations, but not as picky and strict as EA, if you ask me.

Let's just imagine the following things:

  1. If F1 2020 was made by EA, it would probably be the same bug-infested, unplayable mess that is F1 2021, and it would probably use the Corona Calendar with 17 races, meaning there's no Melbourne, Hanoi, or Zandvoort. The quality of the game would've been a total joke, Lewis Hamilton would have dominated everything (which isn't too bad, but would be the same as the Verstappen problem from F1 22), and the black Mercedes would've been limited time only. And I'm 99.9% certain that if F1 2020 was like that, then all the hate the game received would be justified. Oh, and by the way, the Classic Cars and Invitational Events would be missing.
  2. If F1 2021 was made by Codemasters, then the cars wouldn't be such a total mess to drive, the AI wouldn't have been so ridiculously overpowered, the calendar would have been correct (with China being replaced by Imola and Portimão, obviously), and there would be more drivers and teams fighting for the win than just Verstappen and Red Bull. And moreover, the quality of the game would be 10 times better.

It's my personal opinion, sure, but it's probably the best thing Codemasters can do at this point. Unless they just don't follow the ideals that EA is aiming for and simply uses the funding to make an F1 game worth playing. It's not as simple as "Create the game, create the AI, insert as many real life graphics as possible, slap a logo on, done", that's EA thinking. If Codemasters want to make a good F1 game in the future, here's what they have to do: First, set the calendar and create the tracks. Then, create the cars, test their drivability and tweak it if need be to make driving fun for all types of players, and test it again until it's fine. Then, create the AI and test it out, tweak the AI should the need arise, test out different simulation values until a suitable one is found, and rinse and repeat for every track. And once that is done, the focus can be set on the visual things regarding car liveries, tracks, HUD, and so on. And before the release, find and eradicate as many remaining bugs and glitches as possible, and once the game is released, keep working on the game to keep it bug-free and entertaining for everyone.

See, everyone thinks I'm just bashing EA for no good reason. But the truth is... If it weren't for EA taking over Codemasters, I'm 99.9% certain that F1 2021 and F1 22 would be far superior titles, each one surpassing the last game, and that's how it should be.

Or maybe I'm just so in love with F1 2020 to not see how much of a gem EA's F1 games are. I'm not sure.

If you guys read this post to the end, let me know what you think about it.

- Nico

f1 22

7 Replies

  • Meza994's avatar
    Meza994
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago
    @LuckyNico92 Im sorry if it sounds harsh but:

    You being worse on another game compared to the AI or even the AI being a bit better so even the best players can race AI is nothing that should get changed. Only for you to be able to play at a higher AI difficulty you want to sacrifice all the Esports guys ever wanting to race AI? Nah mate sorry..

    F2 isnt meant to be easy in any way. It may feel harder to you because you are more used to F1 cars and F2 behaves quite different, different must be learned first in order to compete properly. How difficult F2 cars truly are to drive IRL in comparison to F1 cant be decided by us as we dont have proper telemetry on F2 to compare to the games behaviour..

    In 2020 cars were a lot more easy to drive IRL than they are this year. If you dont like what real F1 changes to dont lash out on the game for reflecting it somewhat realisticly - yes traction and general lowspeed behaviour still are far from perfect but Greco works on improving it the right way, not with unrealistic things..

    Damage might be one point i can accept a certain degree of criticism.. Comparing the downforce loads created ingame by the wings for example vs what it is said to be IRL (floor only 40-50% IRL according to certain "experts") the loss in performance is a bit too severe for a endplate missing..

    And the race result thing is just you wanting unrealistic things.. Freak results can happen IRL very very very rarely and need major * by teams. In F1 2020 it happened due to wrong game mechanics like AI strategy and Q2 tyre rule and AI being unable to overtake other AI properly if they have a faster car.. If they would implement Merc and Hamilton making stupid choices like in 2021 Hungary with Bottas playing F1 Bowling or implementation of closed pitlane stuff etc. there would be very rare freak results ingame too but considering what IS implemented in the game the results are realistic compared to real life..
  • Amioram's avatar
    Amioram
    3 years ago

    I think there will always be issues with Codemaster F1 games on the matter of difficulty and drivability of cars since the game is trying to approach two different segments of the market: those that want a full simulation and those that instead search a driving game, yes, but mostly arcade in its complexity. So inevitably when the devs will try to incorporate more realistic physics and handling models the group that likes less complexity will complain and viceversa. 

    If we lived in a world where devs had all the time and money at their disposal then I assume it would be possible for Codemasters to achieve a perfect balance by tying also driving model and physics to difficulty levels (along driving assists), but given that this is not the case there will always be things the two sides will complain about and push the devs to be changed. 

    I myself am more on the simulation side so I know I'm biased on the matter, but, apart from the problems of the AI for what it concerns speed out of corner exit (that I've explained in other threads where IMO the only issue resides) I find the handling and physics much more realistic this year and the only real complaint I have about it is the Force Feedback that really needs an upgrade at this point. If CM could bring the FFB on par to other driving sims I would do summersaults of joy, but even here I know that if they did so there would much probably be some people in the "arcade" group that will find such level of detail distracting.

    All this rambling just to say that what CM is doing is problematic to balance and apart from bugs and technical issues I believe that concerning the driving model and/or difficulty there will always be a segment of the user base that will not be happy about certain changes. That's sadly a drawback of having a title trying to accomodate the most amount of users, especially when inside such a user base there are very different views of what constitutes a good product.

  • drewgriffiths's avatar
    drewgriffiths
    Seasoned Veteran
    3 years ago

    Just to touch on something about AI difficulty in your first paragraph. Beforehand, I personally don’t have a problem with the difficulty, I’m still racing on 95 with no assists including cockpit cam. What I would ask anyone who thinks it makes sense to increase difficulty so the best players can race AI is… Do you honestly think the BEST players waste their time racing against AI that are flawed anyway?. I can guarantee that while they may make the odd YouTube video racing against AI, they will otherwise not touch ANY offline single player mode so to adjust AI difficulty for players that aren’t going to touch it doesn’t make an ounce of sense beings they’ll purely race online competitively.

  • Amioram's avatar
    Amioram
    3 years ago

    @drewgriffithsWell, it really depends about which level you are talking about. The aliens don't really play against other humans either, apart when participating in championships or special events, just because they are so good that they cannot simply find nobody to race against (if not just to have some fun), aside from other aliens like themselves (that however seldomly race without a specific reason, as for most of them sim racing is a job). Aliens mainly do laps after laps by themselves in preparation for whichever competitive race they will participate next. Sadly that's the nature of sim racing: the more you advance and the less options you will have.

    Apart from them, even very good players have different things they like and I know many, in fact, that actually like to play against AI, it is just that very few sim racing games even care to put time on developing challenging AI and practically only the CM games actually have a true dedicated championship like experience with the AI. Hence more than not having good players liking to play against AI it is that simply there aren't many options around to do so in a meaningful way, especially in the more "hardcore" sims. 

  • ScarDuck14's avatar
    ScarDuck14
    Legend
    3 years ago
    @Amioram Aliens, 👽😀I watch a lot off Their YouTube videos and The likes off Jarno who top 1% off the Aliens post videos off their my team careers.. Firstly brings in extra cash and helps raises their and E-Sports profile. Secondly it’s practice to keep them sharp. thirdly for them racing against the ai on 110 is better and more reliable than racing against humans in public lobbies. OMG how dare I. Well 110 ai is faster than most humans In Multiplayer. All ai cars not only manage race starts without lighting up their rears and spinning out off control. They for the most part will all make it through the first corner without causing carnage: once the race settles down the ai will generally lap without issue they won’t decide to spice things up by trying to ram into other cars cause they think it’s funny. Fourth the ai lap times consistently be within a few tenths. They will stay on the racing line. Unless attempting a pass or defending a corner. They will also push when chasing you during. And then last off all. Jarno for instance starts as a newcomer which means the car he’s driving is the out off the box my team car. Which is a big fat slow dog off a car. Handling is awful so acceleration and top speed. Not to mention parts fail and wear so during first season your often racing with worn parts that slow your pace or your Having to take new parts meaning penalties. So your starting at the back.

    And also jarno as you know is a multiple e-sports champion. In his first season off he my team career. Generally only gets into second qualifying if it’s raining. As he is the rain master. During 50% race until his car get upgrades and climbs the performance rankings he doesn’t even get into the points. Compare to the videos he posts when he’s in multiplayer lobbies starting last and ends up leading the race inside3 laps
  • drewgriffiths's avatar
    drewgriffiths
    Seasoned Veteran
    3 years ago

    I have to disagree on all points made and here’s why

    Firstly, racing against AI won’t raise their profile. Take Jarno for example. Racing AI won’t raise his profile, racing against real F1 drivers would. Secondly, it wont keep them sharp. AI behave differently to humans and drive more robotic and predictable. AI in Grand Prix 4 was better and that game was out more than 20 years ago. Thirdly, racing against 110 AI isn’t more reliable than the human opponents they’ll take seriously. No eSport player worth their salt will practice their skills against randoms or AI and call it good practice. They’ll personally know who they practice against and they’ll all be very competent players. To support this, I’ll switch sports and please bear with me on this. It’s been a few years since I played proper darts having dart it is but I reached a very high level where I started to average over 100 at proper tournaments and was told to go to PDC Q School to get a Pro Tour Card, I even played against Phil Taylor. I would never practice using an app against AI for the same reason why eSports drivers shouldn’t practice against AI. Robotic and very poor decision making. AI might put up good laps by themselves in racing like putting up 100s, 140s and 180s in darts but then in racing, AI get bullied too easy, don’t properly defend, brake too early and hand you positions just like AI in darts make terrible decisions while on scores like 303, 306, 343 etc. My point is, regardless of the sport or even eSport, any top competitor worth their salt should be practicing against similar skilled human opponents. Jarno will know this so won’t bother seriously practicing in open lobbies or against AI that behave differently and make terrible decisions routinely.

    Agree to disagree I think

  • ScarDuck14's avatar
    ScarDuck14
    Legend
    3 years ago
    @drewgriffiths Being a presence on you tube raises his profile. My team is one of if not the most commonly played mode. So people will watch and do watch. And he gets money from YouTube for it. The reason e-sports drivers are elite is because they put the hours in. I didn’t say the ai are as fast as e-sports drivers. Just fast than most human players. He doesn’t race driver career mode because the F1 team cars are decent compared to my team car. By playing myteam he’s on purposely handicapping himself so he can’t do. last to first races in like he does against 110 ai in gp mode. Which still takes him longer than when he races in humans in public Lobbies.

    He’s and other e-sport drivers post their my team careers on YouTube. It’s the closest they have to competitive racing inbetween competitive league and e-sports races against proper sim racers.

    He can do fast tt laps at will. Winning long races isn’t about putting in the fastest lap. It’s about consistently putting in lap after lap all within 3 tenths. He could do that easily in TT but in a my team shed off a car with ai lapping him by over a second a lap keeps him sharp. He wouldn’t do it otherwise.

    When he races on the public multiplayer lobbies: he never does more than a 5 lap race. Because within 3 laps he’s beating everyone: In my team he does the same distance as e-sport races. There’s a clue.

    Marcel Keifer in a interview says he’s much prefer to always race other human racers. But he can never find single races that have more than a couple decent racers. They are good because they race for hours everyday. Perfecting their craft. They don’t just wait for scheduled league races.

    110ai not as reliable as guys in public lobbies. If half off 20 human drivers make the first corner without incident is a good start. Not convinced Jarno Opmeer has plenty off my team vids to browse

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