Why did Madden get rid of play designing?
I thought the play design feature that was on madden 2004 or 2005 was a great thing. Why didn't it make it back.
Forum Discussion
I know I’m a little late to this party, but as someone who just started playing Madden again after several years away, I too was wondering why there was no play creator.
I get what you’re saying about it being frustrating for opponents trying to figure out how to counter these plays, but isn’t that a core component of football?
I love coaches like Andy Reid who isn’t afraid to try something new and strange. Watching the Chiefs using an occasional gadget play that you’ve never seen before and watching the defense try to figure it out is one of my favorite aspects of football and unfortunately it’s an aspect that is impossible to recreate in Madden these days.
Maybe once the AI gets to the point where it can better recognize alignments/formations etc and the possible routes the players could take from them then it will return. I’ve got to think the main reason it’s not there now isn’t that it fools other players, but that it fools all of the non-player controlled players, ie, the AI. The possibility that a created play would make the AI react in an unrealistic way, say with defenders seemingly ignoring an obvious threat, or even having the custom play cause defenders to tangle up an the AI not knowing where to send them or what to tell them to do, sounds like it would be the real problem.
In any case, I hope the technology or the abilities of the programmers eventually gets to the point where creating custom plays can return to Madden.
As someone else said, I’d be happy for it to come back, even if it wasn’t in all modes.
Better yet, have “Allow Custom Plays” be something you can toggle on or off, where unless both sides agree to use them, it’s turned off. That would give the game a way to keep the integrity of ranked matches while also allowing for the feature’s return for use by the players who might care less about those types of games and are more into the strategy and creativity that games using custom plays would allow.
Thanks for listening (if this thread ever gets visited anymore. I probably just wasted a lot of time arguing my point to myself).
EA_Blueberry
Community Manager
Community Manager@hunter328
I'll bump this over to the team as a request. I imagine if players are able to create their own plays it can result in potential exploits and bugs that need to be addressed, therefore post-launch Support has to be there for the community too.
My concern personally is whether the creation of plays will ultimately just lead to the community using the same dozen or so plays that everyone sees as super successful. It could be seen as a flaw at that point if a defensive counter isn't show. What I'd like to see if that is added is an updated list of what counters what based off community use, that way you can at least toss in some recommended plays to weigh in on that concern.
If there are certain plays you want to see that you have an idea of creating, what would they be? The team could consider adding those specific ones. The Yard has a ton of creativity in it compared to what you see in other parts of the games. So if you're looking at more trick plays let us know what you want to see.
I'll bump this over to the team as a request. I imagine if players are able to create their own plays it can result in potential exploits and bugs that need to be addressed, therefore post-launch Support has to be there for the community too.
My concern personally is whether the creation of plays will ultimately just lead to the community using the same dozen or so plays that everyone sees as super successful. It could be seen as a flaw at that point if a defensive counter isn't show. What I'd like to see if that is added is an updated list of what counters what based off community use, that way you can at least toss in some recommended plays to weigh in on that concern.
If there are certain plays you want to see that you have an idea of creating, what would they be? The team could consider adding those specific ones. The Yard has a ton of creativity in it compared to what you see in other parts of the games. So if you're looking at more trick plays let us know what you want to see.
Hey, @EA_Blueberry While you're at it, bump this over to the team as well. I have owned and operated the longest continuously running Madden fansite on the earth. August 12, 2022 will make 20 years.
I used to love playing Madden. But the quality of the gaming experience has stagnated for the better part of the last decade due to enhanced emphasis on marketing gaming modes I'll never touch (MUT, The Yard, etc.), the things that matter most and make football enjoyable have either been glossed over or completely ignored all the while the game-play ubiquitous to the experience gets only marginally incremental improvements. There are no "game changers" anymore on the level of Defensive Hot Routes (Madden 2005) or Custom Playbooks (Madden 25). I don't use shotgun plays, so Custom Playbooks are integral to the positive game play experience I simply have never been able to have without them and Defensive Hot Routes are the only way to design a play on the fly.
I don't play Madden anymore.
Why? No play creator. Outside of plays in the multitude of shotgun formations, there is little to no variety. My concern with the lack of a play editor is that my old fingers will be forced to repeat the same 15-20 adjustments to overhaul an ineffective play before every snap instead of just designing the play I'll ultimately end up with PRE-GAME like the real pros do. I'm all for drawing plays in the dirt, but that's not how it works in the NFL and it shouldn't be that way in Madden.
That said, please spare us the talk of "exploits" and "AI". Take if from someone that has run an effective offense from under center for almost 20 years, some of us were beating the nastiest nano pressure blitzes long before we could slide protection because we understand the beauty of formation and how it relates to play design.
I can't say whether I'll play Madden again or not, but it's been at least a year since I've considered picking up the sticks... A play editor would change that.
Later
Creating a play shouldn't be limited to just offense. With the ability to create custom defensive formations and plays that would offset the chance of created offensive plays to be abused.
Alternatively, add the feature for offline use only. Even if a created play could exploit the AI What would it hurt?
It would also be a huge boost to in person couch games, playing with a friend experimenting with wacky formations.
@joshforkinatorIt looks like we agree that a play creator is a must have... But if it's only available offline, it's still a deal breaker. A few of us are only interested in playing against human competitors, and online is the easiest way to accomplish it. Furthermore, some of us are old school and are more concerned with simulating the X's and O's of the game in ways that Madden no longer allows because the formations aren't there...
The offenses possible from Split Back, Far, & Near formations are a lost art... Motioning fullbacks to the slot from I-Form... So much football that used to be available just isn't anymore. And that missing football would have no ill effects on the AI. Thus, would be perfectly suited to the online arena.
Besides, if a "Create a Play" feature were available for offense and defense, we would literally change the way we play the game - for the better.
Creating your own plays and formations adds to the realism. Being a coach means you get to set up and design your system as well as your playbook. Yes some people will come up with stuff that's hard to stop but there will be counters. Not to mention you might discover some play making geniuses. I wish they still had a coach mode where you could call plays and watch your team play them, but I fell like creating your plays, drawing up routs and building formations is as big a part of being a coach as developing players. They should give us back play creation.
No specific plays come to mind. I’d have to have in in front of me, see what it can do, then go for there. As for your concerns, a following post mentioned how any created play that was being overused or too successful could be countered by creating plays for the opposite side of the field, offense/defense. That’s true realism. You always hear that the NFL is a copycat league. That’s because when one team/coach comes up with something no one has ever done before and has better than average success with it, the other teams copy it. Then, the coaches on the other side of the ball go to work on how to counteract it.
If the play creator was an accurate tool that allowed for anything a coach might scheme up on his blackboard, (And this is Madden we’re talking about, right? So of course you guys would make it accurate, why wouldn’t you?) then I think your problem is solved by the tool itself.If that’s not good enough, or if your worried about those who would have no interest in a play creator having to play against people using it, then just make it a toggle on the pregame options lists: “Allow for Custom Plays On/Off.”
I can’t think of any issue those solutions wouldn’t cover, but if you do let me know and I’ll brainstorm them for you guys. Otherwise, it really just comes down to whether the developers of Madden want, and would be willing to put the work in, to get this feature added to Madden.
One last thing: I haven’t played in awhile, so forgive me if it’s already been fixed, but from the first time I played Madden after coming back to it last year up until the last time I played, the team/player creation upload/download feature has not been working. The main thing my friend and I want to do is create our own rosters and play against each other online, but without that feature we’re not able to. It’s rare to see such a big feature in a AAA game stay broken for months with no fix.
what I’m asking is, should we be holding out hope that this will be fixed in this year’s game, or have whomever decides such things decided it’s not worth the resources?Thanks for getting back to me, btw! It’s always a treat when you write to a company and they actually take the time to respond back. As a player it means a great deal.
Have a good one!
I could bump this for years. I'm still eagerly awaiting the day when I can take these formations and use the hot routes to create the plays I adjust on the fly.
I Form
Weak I
Strong I
Singleback
Far
Near
Split Backs
NEVER SHOTGUN. Alas, shotgun formations get all the attention. I haven't run shotgun on offense in almost 20 years and the defenses are way too vanilla... There aren't enough rotating cover 3 coverage in multiple formations.
Failing to add a Play Editor isn't about stopping glitches, it's about protecting players that can't scheme their way out of a wet paper bag, at least that was the stance I took in 2003. I still kinda believe it.
So, I'll use Custom Playbooks combined with Hot Routes to create custom plays until I get a play editor that will save the adjustments for me.
The thing about play creator, if you are smart enough, patient enough, and thorough enough in your testing, was that you could design plays with 5 routes being run, each designed to take advantage of a specific type of defensive coverage/blitz, and so long as you made the correct read of the defense either presnap or within one second of snapping it, you knew exactly who was going to be open on the play, and exactly when you would be throwing them the ball. I spent countless hours setting up plays like that way back when, and it was just unstoppable by the ai at the time. It isn't even a matter of how the defensive plays are designed, at that point, but how well the ai can adjust on the fly to see a weakness about to be exploited, and act to stop it. If play creator comes back, and I can make my own whole playbook, and use it as my coach's playbook in franchise mode, they can have all my money, lol
I still think it’d be fine to have in the game with it either only usable in single player or both with the ability to turn it off in multiplayer.
The only reason I can think of (besides just being mean) not to do it that way would be if they were concerned it could cause the game to glitch up if the code wasn’t able to recognize and react to every possible user created play/scenario. I’m no programmer though, so I can’t say if that’s a legitimate reason or not.
