@SalarianLawrence wrote:
Why craft anything when you can get bestlevel items from multiplayer to singleplayer via the APEX Pathfinder reward boxes.
Ehh, probably because not everybody plays multi-player.
You do make a fair point though. Crafting doesn't really yield much better weaponry, at least not a noticeable difference from what I can tell. I think the itemization in this game really needs help.
@EgoMania wrote:
@SalarianLawrence wrote:
Why craft anything when you can get bestlevel items from multiplayer to singleplayer via the APEX Pathfinder reward boxes.
Ehh, probably because not everybody plays multi-player.
You do make a fair point though. Crafting doesn't really yield much better weaponry, at least not a noticeable difference from what I can tell. I think the itemization in this game really needs help.
Um, I would look at items closer. Because weapon mods and augments can make a huge difference.
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@EgoMania wrote:
@SalarianLawrence wrote:
Why craft anything when you can get bestlevel items from multiplayer to singleplayer via the APEX Pathfinder reward boxes.
Ehh, probably because not everybody plays multi-player.
You do make a fair point though. Crafting doesn't really yield much better weaponry, at least not a noticeable difference from what I can tell. I think the itemization in this game really needs help.
Um, I would look at items closer. Because weapon mods and augments can make a huge difference.
Well here's the thing. I have been crafting stuff up to level VI (normal dificulty playthrough) and I put mods in them and stuff as much as I can. But then I pick up a generic version that drops as loot and I kill enemies at just about the same speed. So if it makes a difference I haven't really noticed anything significant in normal difficulty.
Maybe it does in higher difficulties, that I don't know.
Yeah the thing is, I see the numbers but I don't really get the feeling it makes much of a difference on whether I succeed in combat or not.
I know that there is a difference in actual numbers, but let's say that an opponent has 1000 hitpoints and I can have my weapon do 700 or 850 damage. The difference is significant, but I still have to shoot him twice to kill him.
Hope that small example makes it clearer. I do see the number difference but I don't think I'll lose a fight if I have un-augmented gear. Worst case it takes a little longer.
@EgoMania wrote:
I know that there is a difference in actual numbers, but let's say that an opponent has 1000 hitpoints and I can have my weapon do 700 or 850 damage. The difference is significant, but I still have to shoot him twice to kill him.
That's a bad example. We don't boost damage to "one-shot" stuff. It's for the über-high hp enemies like a fiend.
No idea what hp is actually, but lets say it's 10000 (ten or so sniper rifle hits to take one down, doesn't actually even seem high enough). Does start to make a difference if you do 20% more dmg per shot. That much "quicker" to take it down.
@Vellu78 wrote:
@EgoMania wrote:
I know that there is a difference in actual numbers, but let's say that an opponent has 1000 hitpoints and I can have my weapon do 700 or 850 damage. The difference is significant, but I still have to shoot him twice to kill him.
That's a bad example. We don't boost damage to "one-shot" stuff. It's for the über-high hp enemies like a fiend.
No idea what hp is actually, but lets say it's 10000 (ten or so sniper rifle hits to take one down, doesn't actually even seem high enough). Does start to make a difference if you do 20% more dmg per shot. That much "quicker" to take it down.
Well I don't know about you but I play sniper rifles a lot and most enemies I'm fighting are the ones that die relatively quickly. There are a few enemies indeed that are more significant oponents but they are more the exception. But if the idea is that optimising gear is only meant for those tougher opponents then I get what people are on about a bit better. I guess I just don't care so much if those handful of tough fights last 2.5 minutes instead of 2 minutes (just a random example of course).
It's just that the first two playthroughs I really didn't that much with augmenting and now I do on the third playthrough I don't actually feel much of a difference with the first playthroughs.
Maybe I should go to hardcore next and see if I get my behind handed to me hehe.
I mean if you really wanted to you could never choose a profile when it's brought up, never spend any of your skill points and go around killing things with a rank 1 omni blade the entire game.
The point is that if someone wants the 'best' gear, looting it is not an option.
Edit: I should also point out that with things like Assault Rifles and SMGs, without Bioconverters (which I hate) or Vintage Heat Sinks, they tend to run themselves out of ammunition so frequently that the augments become more of a quality of life improvement than a straight upgrade to killing power or anything of the sort.
@EgoMania wrote:
Well I don't know about you but I play sniper rifles a lot and most enemies I'm fighting are the ones that die relatively quickly. There are a few enemies indeed that are more significant oponents but they are more the exception. But if the idea is that optimising gear is only meant for those tougher opponents then I get what people are on about a bit better. I guess I just don't care so much if those handful of tough fights last 2.5 minutes instead of 2 minutes (just a random example of course).
It's just that the first two playthroughs I really didn't that much with augmenting and now I do on the third playthrough I don't actually feel much of a difference with the first playthroughs.
Very true, certainly don't have to boost anything, on normal+ difficulties anyway. But since it's there people like to min-max. On my first playthrough I didn't either and just straight-forward augs and modfiers, nothing fancy.
But on my second run (of which I'm about half-way into) I've been experimenting with the more exotic stuff, like bio-converter and electrical conduits. They can radically change weapon behaviour and suddenly combat flow is entirely different from just straight up pew-pew.
@RotBoti wrote:
I mean if you really wanted to you could never choose a profile when it's brought up, never spend any of your skill points and go around killing things with a rank 1 omni blade the entire game.
The point is that if someone wants the 'best' gear, looting it is not an option.
Edit: I should also point out that with things like Assault Rifles and SMGs, without Bioconverters (which I hate) or Vintage Heat Sinks, they tend to run themselves out of ammunition so frequently that the augments become more of a quality of life improvement than a straight upgrade to killing power or anything of the sort.
Well I get the best gear thing from playing MMOs for years, but there you actually need the gear to win or you won't beat enrage timers and such. A rank 1 omni blade is a silly example of course. I do upgrade at least the rank of the gear. For an assault rifle I like to use one of those Remnant ones that doesn't run out of ammo either. I do augment them now but as I said I don't see any significant difference in my playthrough. I do like a lot of the craftable gear, just not feeling the augmenting bit yet, but I did see a couple of suggestions I will try. They seem to make sense and I'll see if that makes my life in game better.
Well, the example was a hyperbolic one but it's completely relevant to my current play-through. I am currently stuck with a level 2 Pathfinder Ranger as you cannot salvage the deluxe weapons (yay bugs!) and I've yet to find another VHS. I also love the way the Deep Space Explorer armor looks, so I never upgrade my armor either. However the VHS is such a large QoL improvement for me that I would rather it take longer to kill than give up my augments.
Honestly, I can agree with you that I find most of the augments are lack-luster at best and I really hope we see a lot more diversity in their selection as patches and DLC are put in the game. As it stands I only find use for VHS and Shield Oscillators (when I used the Heleus Defender set to do a powers run) for the ones you have to research. The fire-mode augmentations are currently bugged and cannot be purchased, but I would use those for several things. And the rest of the generic augments are alright if you want to min-max, but I can't put that many augments in a gun and as far as I can tell you can't craft another set of Explorer armor with augments (unless that's bugged too, but probably not).
In other words I spent a grand total of 200 MW research points for two play-throughs and never opened the research screen again.
Edit: There's also the very real annoyance of not being able to put leg, arm and chest modifications on whole-body chest pieces.
Ahh I see your point with the VHS.
Yeah, it's tricky like that. It seems to be that it would've been so much easier to have a system where you can simply rip the mods out at a small credit cost for example and then stick em in another piece of gear will crafting, but that's my days of SWTOR talking hehe.
The whole system of loot, crafting, research, inventory, buy/sell, deconstruct, augment and consumables should be revised, very, very carefully.
@PandaTar wrote:
The whole system of loot, crafting, research, inventory, buy/sell, deconstruct, augment and consumables should be revised, very, very carefully.
I actually find it to be pretty cool and useful already. I don't understand why it needs a change unless it has an actual problem.
If we are talking about understanding, both of us understand different things. That's that. Obviously, I'm on the disadvantage, given my understanding sees the current mechanics utterly bad-designed, although 'it works'. On the other hand, you are on the advantage, because it's just like you'd judge ok.
@PandaTar wrote:
If we are talking about understanding, both of us understand different things. That's that. Obviously, I'm on the disadvantage, given my understanding sees the current mechanics utterly bad-designed, although 'it works'. On the other hand, you are on the advantage, because it's just like you'd judge ok.
What is 'utterly bad-designed' actually mean? You don't understand how the slots work? How you can get extra slots? What you can slot into them? What benefits they give?
Complaining without _any_ specifics is just griping.
I was talking holistically, regarding the previous post, not only augment allotting. I understand how the mechanics work and I understanding, by my own means, how they could be improved by my own reasoning and I have pointed out in another thread days ago, which makes me unwilling to elaborate them here again.
And again, that's about personal reasoning, you may agree or not with it, even if one understands, you see.
@PandaTar wrote:
I was talking holistically, regarding the previous post, not only augment allotting. I understand how the mechanics work and I understanding, by my own means, how they could be improved by my own reasoning and I have pointed out in another thread days ago, which makes me unwilling to elaborate them here again.
And again, that's about personal reasoning, you may agree or not with it, even if one understands, you see.
Utterly bad-designed is very strong for a system I don't see any actual breaking bugs issues. 96% resistance may be overkill, but technically something they wanted.
Do you have the link or title of that thread?
You may find a link of it in the first page of this same thread, bottom of the page. There I would point out a suggestion around these mechanics. Probably requires refinement, but I mainly had to place them on paper, if you know what I mean.
P.S.: oh, mind you I'm not talking about bugs or crashing issues either. And again, that's a matter of opinion.
I don't think something needs to be bugged to be implemented horribly. The profile switching system isn't bugged and that is (as it is now) horribly designed.
The inventory and crafting system (and or how they work together) is also an awful design. That is to say, that in both cases, there were more effective ways to implement them that would have both, fit the settings of the game, and done so without being so overly restrictive.
I understand this may not be a big deal to some. Nothing is of the same importance to every single other person for a variety of reasons (varying mindsets and or play styles for example) but the need to carry extra gear just to be able to adjust the actual gear you use, isn't logical.
If I want to take my shirt off, I don't need another shirt to put on before I can. It is a terrible design that handling what I'm wearing is easier now than it is 100+ years in the future, lol.
@arthurh3535 wrote:
Utterly bad-designed is very strong for a system I don't see any actual breaking bugs issues. 96% resistance may be overkill, but technically something they wanted.
Do you have the link or title of that thread?
Poor design has nothing to do with bugs. Poor design means it's working as intended but what they intended isn't working for people. That can be a matter of opinion but I do find there are design issues in the crafting and gearing system.
Part of it is that it's not very clear for me what the effects are of different choices. In fact a lot of things I have trouble with is how the UI is designed, from trading screens to the crafting screen. Doesn't mean it's bugged or broken (although there are some bugs), but it does mean for me that it's been poorly designed and it could've been designed better for me to enjoy it more.
Maybe some people like to test all varieties of guns and test them against each other. I just like to have a clue what I'm doing and a better overview of what I have in stock and what I need it for. I've done crafting in various other games and if we take crafting in another BW game like SWTOR, I just have to say that it was easier to figure things out there for me. The interface was just not as clunky and much clearer. Personally I think a lot of it has to do that these games are designed as a console game first and PC game second nowadays. I never was a big fan of console gaming and the interfaces were part of that.
Also the naming can be confusing. Sometimes I have to really look at weapon mods and wonder if an augment does damage to an enemies shield or if it's adding a bonus to my shields, for example. I also don't like how inventory is organised. For example, if you go to weapons you cannot see all the weapons you have in your inventory. You have to actually drill down to a screen below it, it doesn't just open the area that you can collapse again. So yeah, it works, but it's not a great design in my view.
So I do get the complaints here. The UI in the game does feel like it was made 10 years ago rather than up-to-date. It works but it's what I call clunky. It's not going to stop me playing but it's a regular annoyance.
I agree with you that many of the augments are not very useful and some of the ones that seem like they would be useful have unmentioned downsides that make them practically useless as well (or not worth having).
But when you find those that are worth having, there are some that just can't be lived without especially in higher than normal difficulty in my opinion and I agree the vintage heat sink is one of them despite it halving clip size.
@PretzleMe wrote:
I agree with you that many of the augments are not very useful and some of the ones that seem like they would be useful have unmentioned downsides that make them practically useless as well (or not worth having).
But when you find those that are worth having, there are some that just can't be lived without especially in higher than normal difficulty in my opinion and I agree the vintage heat sink is one of them despite it halving clip size.
I don't know I'd go so far as saying they are not worth having, but the drawbacks are pretty severe until you get the Cryopod that halves the penalties. And you can't even start to earn that one until Kadara unlocks, IIRC. So that's an annoying thing, IMO. You should be able to unlock it earlier (especially for Game+).
I'll be quite truthful, I find the vintage heat sinks to be lacking compared to just using ammo for normal weapons and having one or two Remnant weapons that have the overheat heatsink thing built in, but with less penalties.
It's even worse because it's 60% (meaning the Black Widow is a bolt-action rifle with it), which is where my complaints about the weapon mods come in.
As I posted earlier, you can make a Pathfinder Ranger with 80+ round mags and infinite ammunition because the pistol 'ammunition' modification is for magazine size, which is king when we deal with the VHS, which removes the concern for spare ammo. This doesn't work with the other weapons however, as the only upgrades for magazine size are skills and the ammunition modification for all other guns is for spare ammo - utterly useless with the VHS.
This means the two best weapon types for the VHS are:
There should be many more options for weapon mods. As it stands I can tell you right now that I will never not have a pistol with Receiver/Scope/Mag/Barrel because they're the only mods you need, and the other option is Melee Optimizer, which is better on a shotgun for reasons I shouldn't even need to mention (unless you're using the Talon).
I'm with you and thanks for the weapon/mod combo suggestion.
The augmentations though, not all being actually of use combined with a poor crafting, inventory management synergy all make me strongly dislike crafting. I get it isn't necessarily meant to be fun, but the amount of tedious they put in it was overboard.
as far as armaments go, usually i go with 2 pistols and 2 assault rifles, or 1 pistol, 2 assault rifles & a sniper rifle. the first pistol will be one with high damage and lower ammo (usually with a heatsink), the other will be rapid firing, high ammo count, usually low damage (possibly an SMG). the pistols will not have scopes (as they usually make accurate shooting difficult at short range), likely equipment will be something like... ammo/clip extension, receiver, melee optimizer, and barrel extension.
my assault rifles are usually a sweeper, and a valkyrie, the sweeper is my CQC rifle of choice... so no scope, and the valkyrie is my mid-long range pocket sniper/assault rifle.
i'd really like the tactical scope to have an on/off toggle for removing/replacing the scope on the fly, but as it doesn't i carry two assault rifles.
@CasperTheLich wrote:
as far as armaments go, usually i go with 2 pistols and 2 assault rifles, or 1 pistol, 2 assault rifles & a sniper rifle. the first pistol will be one with high damage and lower ammo (usually with a heatsink), the other will be rapid firing, high ammo count, usually low damage (possibly an SMG). the pistols will not have scopes (as they usually make accurate shooting difficult at short range), likely equipment will be something like... ammo/clip extension, receiver, melee optimizer, and barrel extension.
my assault rifles are usually a sweeper, and a valkyrie, the sweeper is my CQC rifle of choice... so no scope, and the valkyrie is my mid-long range pocket sniper/assault rifle.
i'd really like the tactical scope to have an on/off toggle for removing/replacing the scope on the fly, but as it doesn't i carry two assault rifles.
Very interesting. I noticed you could equip more weapons of the same type and was wondering what could be the advantage of that beyond doubling ammo.
