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Anonymous's avatar
Anonymous
9 years ago

How HEROIC you expected Ryder to be?

I forgot to ask this before.

To me, and when we were being befried about the game, Ryder was supposed to come from the unknown, and then, slowly climb up to the Heroic aspect, not really in the same level of Shepard, but on the right form around it.

To some people, he never got too heroic, a simple shadow of Shepard's. To me, however, he (or she, sorry, I forget to point it out) gets the spotlight only too fast. People simply trust you too fast, you glow too fast, thing feel rushed. Easy.

So, what do you think? Is Ryder too flashy or too dim?

29 Replies

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    9 years ago

    i hope they don't just start offing protagonists from game to game. i want to stick with my character, not pick a new one for each title. i don't want mass effect to turn into dragon age in space-ish.

  • Certainly Ryder does not *feel* heroic. Even when I watch this awful advertisement on TV / in cinema, I really believe that Scott looks out of place in comparison to rest of the Team (I mean: he looks like a *nice* and *innocent* guy). When I am thinking about it, it is similar with Sara - she just seems to be a *nice* gal, which is hardly "heroic". I do not find it to be an issue - I am OK with Ryder being "nice", though I would still prefer to be more clear in terms of what Ryder is *about*. There is no clear agenda, no perceivable drive for Ryder to act, no direction Ryder wishes to *choose* - he or she reacts, and while it is understandable taking circumstances into account, it feels lacking. Shepard in comparison, while often misguided or in need to adopt, was much more consistent and felt much more "in control".

    And once again - it does not *bother* me that Ryder is not in control. It just feels out of place for a game in Mass Effect franchise, and probably it messes with what I believe was advertised as game's premise.

    As far as in-game "trust" in Ryder is concerned, I am OK with it. Scott/Sara succeeds in some significant tasks almost as soon as the game starts, so it makes sense to perceive him or her as viable. Plus he/she bears the title of Pathfinder - which is significant on its own. If anything, I would expect more people to provide comments like "Oh really, this cutee is a Pathfinder?" or "Aren't You a bit short for a Pathfinder?"   ;-D


  • @CasperTheLich wrote:

    i hope they don't just start offing protagonists from game to game. i want to stick with my character, not pick a new one for each title. i don't want mass effect to turn into dragon age in space-ish.


    The lead up to the last mission doesn't look promising. They know you're SAMless so you get all the respect of an uncharged cell phone until your brain starts hemorrhaging out your nose. SAM is the protagonist in this series - the best you are is a sidekick... and SAM can jump ship any time.

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    9 years ago

    I have to say I like how respectful everyone has stayed in this topic.  It was an interesting one from the OP and I've enjoyed many of the responses and perspectives.

    I may bring a couple unique perspectives to the table, so thought I'd jump in and share.

    First, I haven't played the first ME games.  I know.  The massive sighs most of you are breathing right now, coupled with an overwhelming desire to tell me how much I need to play one or more of the older games that are so nostalgic for so many of you 🙂.  Second, as a first responder in real life, I've been in situations from minor car accidents and workplace situations to more major situations.   This gives me a real-life perspective on how people ACTUALLY behave in real emergency situations.

    Having said that, I felt they handled everything pretty good in my opinion (not saying perfect, but my complaints are fairly small).  I never personally felt like Ryder was "heroified" at all really.  Even the primary antagonist realizes the mistake of his own view of Ryder, and as others have already stated, most NPCs, including other leaders and your own crew, realize and comment upon the fact that SAM, not you, is the real power behind your abilities as Pathfinder.  Some do so directly, some indirectly with subtle comments and reflections, some of which are found on consoles or datapads.  There are some NPCs that do put you on a pedestal, but very few, and usually warranted if you look at the situation from their viewpoint and not your own.

    Honestly, in a real-life emergency, most folks want someone else to lead ("lead" I'm referring to - not "help").  I've stopped at major car accidents, still waiting on emergency response crews, with large crowds and I was immediately able to take a lead role quickly and easily.  That happened because some people are just scared.  Some don't know what to do, no matter how much they want to help.  Some with plenty of training or at least some skill are still quick to release responsibility because they just don't want it for a variety of reasons I won't get into in this thread.  People generally want to help and do what they can, but they would PREFER if someone else was leading.  It's a quite frequent and very natural response for most folks.  There are always those who are prideful and overconfident, usually the dangerous ones you DON'T want leading.  But thankfully those personalities are not the norm (and the game shows you what happens when those people try to take charge).

    Here we have a situation where everyone has been thrust into an extreme, emergency, life and death situation for tens of thousands of different life forms.  You arrive into a scene already characterized by chaos, loss of hope (that's a big thing, even in real-life, that greatly affects perspective), filled with many people in leadership who weren't the original leaders (due to the first Scourge encounter).  Additionally, two key figures sparked the reason this entire journey took place, and one of them was the Pathfinder.  Notice I didn't say Alec Ryder.  I said Pathfinder.  Only a few knew the human Pathfinder as the real Alec outside of the title.  Most of them just knew him as the Pathfinder and looked up to that "role" (as was the case with the other Arks and species towards their "Pathfinder").

    When you first step into the role of Pathfinder, just like in real life emergencies, I would expect people to quickly turn over the responsibility to you.  Not because of your experience level.  But because ⚽ the vast majority don't want that responsibility, even if they act like they might, and 🏈 they have no hope at this moment and the name "Pathfinder" provides a glimmer of it.  They aren't looking to you as an experienced hero.  You are a scapegoat for responsibility for some, while for others you have the only recognizable title that everyone knows and has some measure of respect for, especially given the breakdown in leadership most people have seen at the beginning of the game.  Don't forget Ryder is not without a lot of experience and training in his/her own right.  And finally, you are in a small group of people overall.  Remember, most folks are still in cryo.

    The game has ups and downs as far as people's perspectives on your abilities and "hero" status as the story progresses.  And as others have mentioned, even in the end you get comments about you retiring your duties (now that the hard part is done of course) and letting them take over their areas.  Because I don't want to give away important details, I won't discuss the existing alien life's perspectives on you, but under the circumstances and given those individuals collective experiences prior to your arrival, I think their varied opinions of you make sense as well in the grand scheme of things.

    For me... I like everyday heroes.  Flawed or not.  And I think they struck a fairly good balance with the idea in the game.  You do have to play more than just the main story and you need to have a LOT of conversations with a LOT of people, including primary, secondary and one-off characters, to really flesh this out properly - otherwise your viewpoint will be incomplete.  Will they name a school after you?  Probably.  But most folks are going to get on with their lives, and what you did will become history more quickly than you might think.  The real joy though is the respect and admiration you EARN from your crew (depending on how you play).  They don't "heroify" you IMO.  But by the end of the game, they wouldn't want to be anywhere else than exploring the new galaxy by your side.  That was very satisfying and humbling at the same time.

    So, how heroic did I expect Ryder to be?  I didn't actually have any expectations, coming into the game fresh with no history of ME.  But the tone the game struck with the subject was handled pretty well in my opinion.

  • JucieN7's avatar
    JucieN7
    9 years ago

    @VitesseLumiere

    thanks. That really makes the behaviour of some of the people more understandable 🙂
    If you never was in an emergency situation you don't know how you would act or even how other people would act.

    Also I like that you have not played the first games, that gives an extra insight, because most people did play them!

  • pyrion's avatar
    pyrion
    9 years ago

    @VitesseLumiere wrote:

    Some with plenty of training or at least some skill are still quick to release responsibility because they just don't want it for a variety of reasons I won't get into in this thread.  People generally want to help and do what they can, but they would PREFER if someone else was leading.  It's a quite frequent and very natural response for most folks. 


    I can attest to this. My mom wears many hats in her job as a RN at a small town hospital yet the one role she absolutely refuses to take on? Charge nurse. Because she doesn't want the responsibility, even if it pays significantly more, even as she claims she could really use the money. I asked her why, she said because she then has to "deal with upper management and government oversight committees." She just wants to do her job, she doesn't want to have to justify choices to bureaucrats who, in her view, have the power to ruin her life but don't have the power to practice medicine.

    We see this with Ryder having to justify choices to Addison and Tann, and that feeling everyone gets of wanting to reach through the monitor to strangle both of them? Yeah. That's all of you not wanting Ryder's job either. 😉


  • @pyrion wrote:

    @VitesseLumiere wrote:

    Some with plenty of training or at least some skill are still quick to release responsibility because they just don't want it for a variety of reasons I won't get into in this thread.  People generally want to help and do what they can, but they would PREFER if someone else was leading.  It's a quite frequent and very natural response for most folks. 


    I can attest to this. My mom wears many hats in her job as a RN at a small town hospital yet the one role she absolutely refuses to take on? Charge nurse. Because she doesn't want the responsibility, even if it pays significantly more, even as she claims she could really use the money. I asked her why, she said because she then has to "deal with upper management and government oversight committees." She just wants to do her job, she doesn't want to have to justify choices to bureaucrats who, in her view, have the power to ruin her life but don't have the power to practice medicine.

    We see this with Ryder having to justify choices to Addison and Tann, and that feeling everyone gets of wanting to reach through the monitor to strangle both of them? Yeah. That's all of you not wanting Ryder's job either. 😉


    Middle management *is* a special kind of hell where the grief comes from all directions. You are suddenly responsible for fixing both ends of the food chain when they screw anything up and the go to for every complaint - and who has to make "make it work with what you got" actually work.

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