There, I said it.
I know you(Bioware) want me to pick Reyes, and made her one of the few killable characters in the game, but she's straight with me and the world, has a beautifully complicated backstory, and both the game and her will allow me to meet her snark for snark.
Sloane great pick
@PretzleMe wrote:
I've played out saving Sloane and I have to say that if I met even a hint of that Sloane beforehand, my decision would have proven more difficult.
Makes me feel like Sloane is forced in someway. Like it was almost their intent to make us not like Sloane. But it seems forced to have her show me virtually no respect at all until I save her life or to have her start to show me the amount she does after I save her.
At least that's what I wonder about.
I guess they wanted to write Sloane in a way similar to Loghain from Dragon Age 1: a controversial character, who had been laid out as a "cool" hero in a backstory book, that has a lot of redeeming factors, but uses wrong means to achieve own goals, and is, well... seriously delusional. And they mixed Bhelen vs. Renvil as far as story goes.
In my opinion the have hardly succeeded - Sloane is not the same paygrade as Loghain was; and the choice is not communicated to players as well as it was for dwarven lords. But, well, since so many people like Sloane, perhaps they succeeded after all?
Huh, check the title for the topic again? ;-)
Kondaru wrote:
Poison has been in base since beginning.....yup, I consider it in many ways worse than a bomb or gun, because one of the things MOST useful about poison is that it is usually hidden and a way to kill without anyone knowing WHO or WHEN(usually) someone was actually poisoned.
I do understand that poison seems to be devious, and I somehow sympathize with Your perceiving it to be worse than guns and bombs. But I still believe that "how" and "on whom" is more important. Just please consider: young boy scout poisoning a bad Nazi for torturing his mom until death; and the said Nazi shooting praying Jews in the getto with a big machine pistol, and then blowing houses with occupants still inside... :-(
And how about drugs? Do You believe poison to be worse than drugs?
Just as a note: poison as a small scale is always used for murder, and if you go larger scale you get the Jonestown lemonade, gas showers, or chemical weapons, all of which tend to be considered exceptionally bad.
As for bombs, they are mixed use devices, as they can be used for civilian purposes, like mining and demolitions, military purposes, like bombing ISIS, or terrorist purposes, like bombing places of worship or mass transit
Guns are much the same, except they are capable of being much more precise. Civilians can use them to hunt food and stop dangerous wildlife and people which are endangering them, soldiers use them to kill bad guys and enemy soldiers, and gangs and terrorists use them to kill whoever they feel like
Also, someone checked, and if you don't give the formula to Dr. Nakamura during the drug quest, the drugs are still being sold after Reyes takes over, presumably on the behest of whoever is running Kedara Port
Kondaru wrote:
And ahh, poor Reyes, he is fighting such a bad person, it is OK, to torture people, poison them, execute prisoners instead of letting them go or taking them with you, it is ok, to doublecross agreements, and it is ok to use people JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE FIGHTING SOMEONE SOOOO BAD...
Well, Sloane is *not* officially fighting paupers, Angara, and other exiles, but she still tortures them, executes them (please note that if Collective released Outcasts then those Outcasts would in a short while fight against them again; which is NOT the case of Sloane/Outcasts vs. Vehn Terev), drugs own subjects, etc.
And yes: I believe that when a weaker party fights the *oppressor* then it is entitled to employ *some* of the more controversial methods. For me goals are just as important as means.
While both sides use Rodney King beatings as part of their tactics, possibly out of the same pissed off code of maintaining public order (but without any question of racism), we only have proof of the Collective using more traditionally recognized torture methods. In fact, the torturee indicated that Sloane is generally averse to torture, and would just kill uncooperative hostiles
As for Vehn Terev, essentially that is a case of running a country with a large Catholic population, capturing the guy who sold Pope Francis to ISIS, and deciding to kill him after interrogating him with a large phone book
There is a fine line between guerilla warfare and terrorism, and the more you make use of "controversial methods" the closer you get to outright terrorism. For example, ISIS is using "controversial methods" to fight the oppressor right now
Kondaru wrote:
I wasn't actually expecting them to still be allies....I expected them to NOT BE THERE...
Uh... How is it a fault of partisan/guerrilla fighters to be in their secret base? You would prefer all of them to be already caught up by Outcasts and shot in the back front of their heads? :-o
I was more making a point that Reyes is JUST as dirty or more so than Sloane, and can't be trusted any more than She can, and probably even less, since he plays at being your Friend.
OK, but I still can't see Your point. How is he more dirty, and can't be trusted? You decided to act against him, and probably even shot him. How do You expect him to react so You can considered him trustworthy?
I was pissed that after I let the Charlatan go and DIDN'T shoot him, his personal squad of elite minions still automatically get sicced on me.
Thanks a lot friend. You claim you're trying to put together as many resources as you can and you decide to get your base wiped out and your stuff confiscated because after all the "white knight" missions you put me through I don't let someone get shot in the back. That's all I did. C'mon! What the heck man!?
If I don't shoot Reyes the base should still be on speaking terms with me, if potentially fairly irritated. So what if I don't act exactly like them, they already said I couldn't be in their little club
@fudgietroll wrote:
I was pissed that after I let the Charlatan go and DIDN'T shoot him, his personal squad of elite minions still automatically get sicced on me.
Thanks a lot friend. You claim you're trying to put together as many resources as you can and you decide to get your base wiped out and your stuff confiscated because after all the "white knight" missions you put me through I don't let someone get shot in the back. That's all I did. C'mon! What the heck man!?
If I don't shoot Reyes the base should still be on speaking terms with me, if potentially fairly irritated. So what if I don't act exactly like them, they already said I couldn't be in their little club
you do basically side with sloane, so what are they supposed to do, shake your hand, let you take a seat, & fix you some tea while there at it?
err, i'd actually avoid the tea if i were you.
@CasperTheLich wrote:
@fudgietroll wrote:I was pissed that after I let the Charlatan go and DIDN'T shoot him, his personal squad of elite minions still automatically get sicced on me.
Thanks a lot friend. You claim you're trying to put together as many resources as you can and you decide to get your base wiped out and your stuff confiscated because after all the "white knight" missions you put me through I don't let someone get shot in the back. That's all I did. C'mon! What the heck man!?
If I don't shoot Reyes the base should still be on speaking terms with me, if potentially fairly irritated. So what if I don't act exactly like them, they already said I couldn't be in their little club
you do basically side with sloane, so what are they supposed to do, shake your hand, let you take a seat, & fix you some tea while there at it?
err, i'd actually avoid the tea if i were you.
I don't know about if you shoot him, but if you just let him go he sends you this email that runs something like "you made a bad call but I shoulda known you wouldn't let me shoot her in the back, I'm gonna go try and get more resources to save the world from Sloane, we're cool"
That being said, why not tell his guys that I'm still a potential asset, try to use me, rather than making me shoot on sight?
@fudgietroll wrote:
I don't know about if you shoot him, but if you just let him go he sends you this email that runs something like "you made a bad call but I shoulda known you wouldn't let me shoot her in the back, I'm gonna go try and get more resources to save the world from Sloane, we're cool"
That being said, why not tell his guys that I'm still a potential asset, try to use me, rather than making me shoot on sight?
Um, they don't stop shooting at you everywhere else unless you back Reyes in his takeover bid. The guys in the base probably took it as betrayal and decided to treat you like all the rest of the Collective.
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@fudgietroll wrote:I don't know about if you shoot him, but if you just let him go he sends you this email that runs something like "you made a bad call but I shoulda known you wouldn't let me shoot her in the back, I'm gonna go try and get more resources to save the world from Sloane, we're cool"
That being said, why not tell his guys that I'm still a potential asset, try to use me, rather than making me shoot on sight?
Um, they don't stop shooting at you everywhere else unless you back Reyes in his takeover bid. The guys in the base probably took it as betrayal and decided to treat you like all the rest of the Collective.
They were always shooting at me everywhere else. These guys obeyed the Charlatan and worked with me. So either they won't obey Reyes as Charlatan, or he isn't interested in them working with me
you're likely a security risk now, in his place i wouldn't let you back into my hq.
my only regret about shooting reyes in that back is that my alliance training obviously didn't pay off and i didn't get to head shot the cowardly * :D
