Pathfinder(s) and Remnant Tech
Am I the only pathfinder who can work remnant tech of can all the SAM's do that? Why aren't they out there helping me restart vaults as I add/rescue them? I know there's only one Tempest, but couldn'...
Forum Discussion
i figured it had something to do ryder's specialized implants and sams ability to alter ryder's physiology. as without sam, interfacing with rem tech is quite dangerous, apparently.
@CasperTheLich wrote:
i figured it had something to do ryder's specialized implants and sams ability to alter ryder's physiology. as without sam, interfacing with rem tech is quite dangerous, apparently.
They actually call it SAM implants. And Cora (and other Pathfinders) have them too, it's only after the authority and SAM's command codes are transferred that they say that SAM has intertwined himself in a way we (ie. Lexi) don't understand. And considering that she has Alec and the Ryder twins medical history, I think she'd notice if they were a different version. (So yeah, the Archon could have technically kidnapped three other people, too).
It's a plot narrative to make the protagonist the focus of the story.
i could be mistaken, however i recall that alec, sara, and scott have specialized pathfinder implants, different from what the rest of the team uses. though, on second thought that might have been someone's head canon, maybe even mine. so IDK for sure.
From my point of view, SAM adds calculation power that your normal human brain cannot just do. It's like an expansion on your mental prowess.
Now, there are a couple of elements that are significant to me:
- Alec Ryder managed to make contact in the first mission using SAM. So the first tower reset was done by Alec and not your Ryder.
- Your own Ryder doesn't actually do it without SAM until after having some experience working remtech with SAM.
- The Archon uses your twin to get access via SAM to Meridian but purely as a conduit.
There are many ways to interpret these elements when you put them together, but if your Ryder is what makes it possible, then the Archon wouldn't be able to gain access via your twin. If SAM is what makes it possible, then how can your Ryder do it without SAM?
The only answer there is that your Ryder's brain is learning along with the experience (symbiotic relationship), but that means you can learn it and SAM just makes it faster or opens the door for your brain to get it. That makes SAM no more special than other SAMs in my view since the symbiotic relationship is true of all SAMs.
I can't say that there isn't some other mystical explanation that could be made, but along the principle of Ockham's razor I would think it is the most reasonable explanation that intelligent creatures can learn it as long as they are intelligent enough. A standard human won't do but enhanced by AI the learning is facilitated and the brain adapts opening up to new ways of thinking by the grace of the symbiotic relationship with SAM.
Hope that makes sense.
@EgoMania wrote:
I can't say that there isn't some other mystical explanation that could be made, but along the principle of Ockham's razor I would think it is the most reasonable explanation that intelligent creatures can learn it as long as they are intelligent enough. A standard human won't do but enhanced by AI the learning is facilitated and the brain adapts opening up to new ways of thinking by the grace of the symbiotic relationship with SAM.
The Havarl Angara have learned the very basics (open doors and such) but it takes them years to do that, and not everyone can at all. Doesn't necessarily transfer to "all humans" as supposedly the Angara were "designed" to use the remnant.
@Vellu78 wrote:
@EgoMania wrote:
I can't say that there isn't some other mystical explanation that could be made, but along the principle of Ockham's razor I would think it is the most reasonable explanation that intelligent creatures can learn it as long as they are intelligent enough. A standard human won't do but enhanced by AI the learning is facilitated and the brain adapts opening up to new ways of thinking by the grace of the symbiotic relationship with SAM.
The Havarl Angara have learned the very basics (open doors and such) but it takes them years to do that, and not everyone can at all. Doesn't necessarily transfer to "all humans" as supposedly the Angara were "designed" to use the remnant.
How do you mean with all humans? I am saying that a certain level of intelligence is required. A SAM can enhance it, but I never intended it to mean that every human could manage this. Not every human can handle a SAM from what I gather in the game.
The Angara were created by the Remnant but they also have AI tech in their past. So I am not sure if the Angara were designed to use remtech. That's too big a leap for me. Why would they've had AI machines if they were designed to handle remtech? I doubt the Remnant would give that much power to the Angara and perhaps the Angara therefore developed AI tech and rebelled. Perhaps that's where the Scourge came from, except that it did as much damage to the Angara as the Remnant.
It's all speculation of course, but I do not see that Angara would've been designed to operate the technology of their creators. That would be unwise without testing first. You don't give kids a car to drive till you test them at a certain age and give them a license when they show they can handle it. And even then many mistakes are made.So you wouldn't give em a F1 car without further training and testing.
So yeah, in the end, without AI, it takes intelligent creatures many years to figure it out if they can at all.
I wonder what that says about the Archon...
Even worse yet, the Angara might have had something like SAM for helping with using Jardaan tech. And it was targeted by the Scourge, killing just about everyone would could use the tech the way it was designed and meant to be. So suddenly, their techs all die in one fell swoop and they no longer have the tech-base to rebuild their keys.
@EgoMania wrote:
@Vellu78 wrote:
@EgoMania wrote:
I can't say that there isn't some other mystical explanation that could be made, but along the principle of Ockham's razor I would think it is the most reasonable explanation that intelligent creatures can learn it as long as they are intelligent enough. A standard human won't do but enhanced by AI the learning is facilitated and the brain adapts opening up to new ways of thinking by the grace of the symbiotic relationship with SAM.
The Havarl Angara have learned the very basics (open doors and such) but it takes them years to do that, and not everyone can at all. Doesn't necessarily transfer to "all humans" as supposedly the Angara were "designed" to use the remnant.
How do you mean with all humans? I am saying that a certain level of intelligence is required. A SAM can enhance it, but I never intended it to mean that every human could manage this. Not every human can handle a SAM from what I gather in the game.
That's why I used the little bunny ears 😉
angaran AI?
Spoileryou mean that ancient AI on voeld? i'm not really sure what to make of it... it said it didn't recognize the angara as it's creator... though it was lying pretty much the whole time. and it's definitely not rem-tec (didn't share any design characteristics with any remnant tech i've seen thus far). but, whatever.
@CasperTheLich wrote:
angaran AI?
Spoileryou mean that ancient AI on voeld? i'm not really sure what to make of it... it said it didn't recognize the angara as it's creator... though it was lying pretty much the whole time. and it's definitely not rem-tec (didn't share any design characteristics with any remnant tech i've seen thus far). but, whatever.SpoilerPre-scourge angara I think it was determined (was in such ruins atleast).
@Vellu78 wrote:
@CasperTheLich wrote:
angaran AI?
Spoileryou mean that ancient AI on voeld? i'm not really sure what to make of it... it said it didn't recognize the angara as it's creator... though it was lying pretty much the whole time. and it's definitely not rem-tec (didn't share any design characteristics with any remnant tech i've seen thus far). but, whatever.SpoilerPre-scourge angara I think it was determined (was in such ruins atleast).The Remnant fighter on Havari was also called an Angarian spaceship and pilot.
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@CasperTheLich wrote:
i figured it had something to do ryder's specialized implants and sams ability to alter ryder's physiology. as without sam, interfacing with rem tech is quite dangerous, apparently.
They actually call it SAM implants. And Cora (and other Pathfinders) have them too, it's only after the authority and SAM's command codes are transferred that they say that SAM has intertwined himself in a way we (ie. Lexi) don't understand. And considering that she has Alec and the Ryder twins medical history, I think she'd notice if they were a different version. (So yeah, the Archon could have technically kidnapped three other people, too).
It's a plot narrative to make the protagonist the focus of the story.
It is very clearly stated the Ryder implants are modified. I guess with the human arc being uninhibited and better implants, SAM has far more access to the Ryders.
I think you guys will also find that, other then the Pathfinder and the Pathfinders second, everyone else's SAM connection is the same as the wrist band Drack has, not an implant in their heads.
Its easy to miss the little stuff, very short, quick, responses.
So, the other Pathfinders, without the modified implants have SAMS who can observe and to an extent experience but can't influence. They have the private in head only SAM channel and probably access to the different profiles (since most of what lets you know how to say use tech or shoot a gun a certain way is information). But it's doubtful their SAMs can stop their hearts, revive them, inhibit pain responses such as that from using rem tech or prevent them from diseases etc because that would require more complete access. The Ryders SAM can do these things because of the modified implants they have and the lack of blocks SAM has, as it was designed specifically to cure Ellen, helping to Pathfind was more than likely a later edition. Where as the other SAMs were designed more stoco, for pathfinding purposes only but they are still AI not VI so to an extent they can still learn and experience.
So Dad gave himself, the twins and Ellen the modified implants that help SAM to interface more directly and also removed the blocks from SAM thst would prevent it from doing so.
Using Rem tech damages a human, it would totally require a SAM connection that can repair damage as it occurs, or prevent it from occuring in the first place, and pain response inhibitors to stop it from hurting. As was evident when Ryder used them rem tech after sam had pulled back, leaving them with a connection that was probably more inline with a standard pathfinder connection. So that it could focus more on helping the twin.
"...It is very clearly stated the Ryder implants are modified..."
When, where, and by whom?
I'm not saying this didn't happen, just saying that I don't remember this ever being said by anyone at anytime so if it happened could you please give us more information on how to find it?
@PretzleMe wrote:
"...It is very clearly stated the Ryder implants are modified..."
When, where, and by whom?
I'm not saying this didn't happen, just saying that I don't remember this ever being said by anyone at anytime so if it happened could you please give us more information on how to find it?
He's confusing Lexi stating that SAM's implants have become entwined into Ryder's brain/body in "ways we don't understand".
@PretzleMe wrote:
"...It is very clearly stated the Ryder implants are modified..."
When, where, and by whom?
I'm not saying this didn't happen, just saying that I don't remember this ever being said by anyone at anytime so if it happened could you please give us more information on how to find it?
The moment I find it again I will! 🙂
Big game, lots pf ground to cover... but im not even close to being done yet with pts 🙂
And for the poster above this one - she not he 😉
@Nykara360 wrote:
@PretzleMe wrote:
"...It is very clearly stated the Ryder implants are modified..."
When, where, and by whom?
I'm not saying this didn't happen, just saying that I don't remember this ever being said by anyone at anytime so if it happened could you please give us more information on how to find it?
The moment I find it again I will! 🙂
Big game, lots pf ground to cover... but im not even close to being done yet with pts 🙂
And for the poster above this one - she not he 😉
Okay, so you could be the mistaken one. Cue dramatic music! Duhn duhn duuuuuuuhnnnnn!
Lol, it's cool. But yeah, so far and from what I remember, the Ryder implants aren't special. The SAM is special but not the implants. Maybe the Pathfinder implants might be different, but we aren't really clear on that really.
Especially since the role of Pathfinder seems important to where it wouldn't make sense that only one other person would be able to connect to SAM to become Pathfinder. I'd imagine it would be similar to how they had 8 people (at least) on standby to take the role as running the Initiative.
You could be right though @Nykara360 it's just not what I remember.
It wasn't early in the game or Lexi who said it iirc. Which is what makes it tricky to find. Outside of the main crew / chars im hopeless with names and identities. Especially when there is so many 😮😮
SAM tells you in the beginning. No other SAM can do the things it does. Alec modified it far past the point of the other SAM's.
"...It wasn't early in the game or Lexi who said it iirc..."
I figured as much, but I have beaten the game and I just don't recall anyone at any point saying the implants were special. Because of that, my opinion is that they didn't, but either one of us could be mistaken.
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"...SAM tells you in the beginning. No other SAM can do the things it does..."
Yes, but this isn't the same as stating that the implants are modified. This only means that SAM is, however as I stated before, we're not very clear on what the difference is between our SAM and that of the other Pathfinders.
This means we aren't sure if the difference isn't the profile capabilities or if it computing power or what. It also means, that as things stand, there is really nothing to say that our SAM would be incapable of teaching the other SAMs how to activate vaults.
Well, there was a comment in game as well where someone said they figured out what was going on in the sense of Ryder's brain being taught how to deal with Remnant tech. As such Ryder at some point manages to do this without SAM though it's at such a great strain that it causes hemmoraghing.
To me that sounds like the Remnant tech is operated by thought and that it's with a level of complexity that our brains could learn over time but is rather demanding. Kinda like overloading a CPU I guess. SAM adds the needed processing power and the implant is a usable interface.
That's what the Archon was missing cause he couldn't interface with the tech. I wonder if that flying thingy he has with him is also some form of AI. If I remember right the Archon only needed the twin for the interface and not SAM. So he's either very intelligent or has an AI. From his arrogance and condescension to Ryder (calling Ryder a fake basically because of the AI integration), it could be that his genetics give him the processing power needed, but it could be just big talk and jealousy.
So yeah, I'd really like to know what that flying little gizmo of his is.
@EgoMania wrote:
Well, there was a comment in game as well where someone said they figured out what was going on in the sense of Ryder's brain being taught how to deal with Remnant tech. As such Ryder at some point manages to do this without SAM though it's at such a great strain that it causes hemmoraghing.
To me that sounds like the Remnant tech is operated by thought and that it's with a level of complexity that our brains could learn over time but is rather demanding. Kinda like overloading a CPU I guess. SAM adds the needed processing power and the implant is a usable interface.
That's what the Archon was missing cause he couldn't interface with the tech. I wonder if that flying thingy he has with him is also some form of AI. If I remember right the Archon only needed the twin for the interface and not SAM. So he's either very intelligent or has an AI. From his arrogance and condescension to Ryder (calling Ryder a fake basically because of the AI integration), it could be that his genetics give him the processing power needed, but it could be just big talk and jealousy.
So yeah, I'd really like to know what that flying little gizmo of his is.
Are you sure that the flying gizmo wasnt just a shield orb? All the big wigs have them.
@Nykara360 wrote:
@EgoMania wrote:
Well, there was a comment in game as well where someone said they figured out what was going on in the sense of Ryder's brain being taught how to deal with Remnant tech. As such Ryder at some point manages to do this without SAM though it's at such a great strain that it causes hemmoraghing.
To me that sounds like the Remnant tech is operated by thought and that it's with a level of complexity that our brains could learn over time but is rather demanding. Kinda like overloading a CPU I guess. SAM adds the needed processing power and the implant is a usable interface.
That's what the Archon was missing cause he couldn't interface with the tech. I wonder if that flying thingy he has with him is also some form of AI. If I remember right the Archon only needed the twin for the interface and not SAM. So he's either very intelligent or has an AI. From his arrogance and condescension to Ryder (calling Ryder a fake basically because of the AI integration), it could be that his genetics give him the processing power needed, but it could be just big talk and jealousy.
So yeah, I'd really like to know what that flying little gizmo of his is.
Are you sure that the flying gizmo wasnt just a shield orb? All the big wigs have them.
Nope, it is definitely some sort of personal assistant AI/VI gizmo. Archon used it to recreate a scene like SAM does at the end of the intro mission, and during Meridian he has it hack your twin/SAM to access the vault network. Post Meridian there is and email/codex about it, and Primus is now shown to have one. Somewhere in the heart of the Kett empire, under the ruins of Bigweld Industries, some poor robot is cranking these things out for the Kett upper leadership.
