Re: EOS Cemetery
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
We stay out of other people's grief?
Wait a minute are you wearing a N7 armor lol?
Forum Discussion
22 Replies
@VladVonCastein wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
We stay out of other people's grief?
Wait a minute are you wearing a N7 armor lol?
Its funny because the N7 (that you have to research) was never worn by Alec. At least not in the game. He had a pathfinder (with an N7 logo that disappears after lvl3) without that ridiculous collar. Yet the description of the N7 armor says it was worn by Alec but nothing states that about the Pathfinder. So um...its kinda messed up. Guess they didnt think about this.
@RoastPotato26 wrote:
@VladVonCastein wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
We stay out of other people's grief?
Wait a minute are you wearing a N7 armor lol?
Its funny because the N7 (that you have to research) was never worn by Alec. At least not in the game. He had a pathfinder (with an N7 logo that disappears after lvl3) without that ridiculous collar. Yet the description of the N7 armor says it was worn by Alec but nothing states that about the Pathfinder. So um...its kinda messed up. Guess they didnt think about this.
If anyone in the game had even less right to wear N7 armour it was Pop. Dishonorable discharge.
As dramatic as the first series was I wonder if the separation ended with a ceremony where they rip every patch, insignia, and award you had ever gotten off your dress uniform before they let you walk away.
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@RoastPotato26 wrote:
@VladVonCastein wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
We stay out of other people's grief?
Wait a minute are you wearing a N7 armor lol?
Its funny because the N7 (that you have to research) was never worn by Alec. At least not in the game. He had a pathfinder (with an N7 logo that disappears after lvl3) without that ridiculous collar. Yet the description of the N7 armor says it was worn by Alec but nothing states that about the Pathfinder. So um...its kinda messed up. Guess they didnt think about this.
If anyone in the game had even less right to wear N7 armour it was Pop. Dishonorable discharge.
I don't think it ever stated dishonorable discharge, just that he was discharged.
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@RoastPotato26 wrote:
@VladVonCastein wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
We stay out of other people's grief?
Wait a minute are you wearing a N7 armor lol?
Its funny because the N7 (that you have to research) was never worn by Alec. At least not in the game. He had a pathfinder (with an N7 logo that disappears after lvl3) without that ridiculous collar. Yet the description of the N7 armor says it was worn by Alec but nothing states that about the Pathfinder. So um...its kinda messed up. Guess they didnt think about this.
If anyone in the game had even less right to wear N7 armour it was Pop. Dishonorable discharge.
I don't think it ever stated dishonorable discharge, just that he was discharged.
I thought so at first too - but the journal/codex says dishonorable discharge.
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@RoastPotato26 wrote:
@VladVonCastein wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
We stay out of other people's grief?
Wait a minute are you wearing a N7 armor lol?
Its funny because the N7 (that you have to research) was never worn by Alec. At least not in the game. He had a pathfinder (with an N7 logo that disappears after lvl3) without that ridiculous collar. Yet the description of the N7 armor says it was worn by Alec but nothing states that about the Pathfinder. So um...its kinda messed up. Guess they didnt think about this.
If anyone in the game had even less right to wear N7 armour it was Pop. Dishonorable discharge.
I don't think it ever stated dishonorable discharge, just that he was discharged.
I thought so at first too - but the journal/codex says dishonorable discharge.
I wouldn't really expect anything else either tbh. AI tech is banned by all of the races, playing with it not only risks starting a war but could be considered an act of treason or at the very least a war crime. Its like taking one of the UNs largest laws ... and breaking it.
@Nykara360 wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@RoastPotato26 wrote:
@VladVonCastein wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
We stay out of other people's grief?
Wait a minute are you wearing a N7 armor lol?
Its funny because the N7 (that you have to research) was never worn by Alec. At least not in the game. He had a pathfinder (with an N7 logo that disappears after lvl3) without that ridiculous collar. Yet the description of the N7 armor says it was worn by Alec but nothing states that about the Pathfinder. So um...its kinda messed up. Guess they didnt think about this.
If anyone in the game had even less right to wear N7 armour it was Pop. Dishonorable discharge.
I don't think it ever stated dishonorable discharge, just that he was discharged.
I thought so at first too - but the journal/codex says dishonorable discharge.
I wouldn't really expect anything else either tbh. AI tech is banned by all of the races, playing with it not only risks starting a war but could be considered an act of treason or at the very least a war crime. Its like taking one of the UNs largest laws ... and breaking it.
It's the UN. Who Cares? Now if he broke something in the UCMJ, or did illegal WMD research....
@fudgietroll wrote:
@Nykara360 wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@RoastPotato26 wrote:
@VladVonCastein wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
We stay out of other people's grief?
Wait a minute are you wearing a N7 armor lol?
Its funny because the N7 (that you have to research) was never worn by Alec. At least not in the game. He had a pathfinder (with an N7 logo that disappears after lvl3) without that ridiculous collar. Yet the description of the N7 armor says it was worn by Alec but nothing states that about the Pathfinder. So um...its kinda messed up. Guess they didnt think about this.
If anyone in the game had even less right to wear N7 armour it was Pop. Dishonorable discharge.
I don't think it ever stated dishonorable discharge, just that he was discharged.
I thought so at first too - but the journal/codex says dishonorable discharge.
I wouldn't really expect anything else either tbh. AI tech is banned by all of the races, playing with it not only risks starting a war but could be considered an act of treason or at the very least a war crime. Its like taking one of the UNs largest laws ... and breaking it.
It's the UN. Who Cares? Now if he broke something in the UCMJ, or did illegal WMD research....
Terran Alliance, not council. He was N7, not SPECTRE. So... whatever the Aliiance's version of the UCMJ is. Shep stole an Alliance ship, destroyed an entire Batarian star system, AND worked with Cerebrus and didn't get a DD.
Pop was a bad dog. No biscuit.
alec had more right to wear the n7 armor then shepard ever did he was a War Hero however the poltical side effects of making an ai is very harse they had no choice but to kick him out he got branded on the same level as Ashley's grandfather which was obvious in the topics that the ryder twins couldn't advance in the alliance navy thanks to alec ryder being blacklisted sara talks about this with to liam it's funny how the alliance navy seem to insist on punishing the children of people who break the rules :D
don't matter how good a N7 you are shepard would be kicked out too if she/he made an ai infact the whole issue of edi gets sweeped under the carpet a lot of things that should have gotten shepard kicked out was dismissed due to being a spectre working with Cerbereus is tecnically treason but hey it's shepard we will simply place on her / him on house arrest anyone else would have been court martial and possibly be serving a prison sentence
@ViViD_Prime wrote:
alec had more right to wear the n7 armor then shepard ever did he was a War Hero however the poltical side effects of making an ai is very harse they had no choice but to kick him out he got branded on the same level as Ashley's grandfather which was obvious in the topics that the ryder twins couldn't advance in the alliance navy thanks to alec ryder being blacklisted sara talks about this with to liam it's funny how the alliance navy seem to insist on punishing the children of people who break the rules :D
don't matter how good a N7 you are shepard would be kicked out too if she/he made an ai infact the whole issue of edi gets sweeped under the carpet a lot of things that should have gotten shepard kicked out was dismissed due to being a spectre working with Cerbereus is tecnically treason but hey it's shepard we will simply place on her / him on house arrest anyone else would have been court martial and possibly be serving a prison sentence
That doesn't make any sense at all. Both were N7, you can't take the training away, but if you are dishonorably discharged you give up the right to wear the uniform you disgraced. If Shep had gotten a DD he would have given up the right to wear the uniform as well. You not only have to earn the right to an elite military group, you have to continue to earn/keep the right to wear that uniform. You represent it - it doesn't represent you.
The difference was Shep had the backing of higher/highest ranking officers to support his decisions to save the entire galaxy when he broke the rules, where Alec did not have that level of support for sole human gain and to prolong his wife's life (we'll see if it eventually saves her). Shep also had the cover of SPECTRE status, possibly multiple times, for his actions and turned himself in. Alec did not have that "agent at large" cover and the details of his DD aren't there.
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@fudgietroll wrote:
@Nykara360 wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@RoastPotato26 wrote:
@VladVonCastein wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
We stay out of other people's grief?
Wait a minute are you wearing a N7 armor lol?
Its funny because the N7 (that you have to research) was never worn by Alec. At least not in the game. He had a pathfinder (with an N7 logo that disappears after lvl3) without that ridiculous collar. Yet the description of the N7 armor says it was worn by Alec but nothing states that about the Pathfinder. So um...its kinda messed up. Guess they didnt think about this.
If anyone in the game had even less right to wear N7 armour it was Pop. Dishonorable discharge.
I don't think it ever stated dishonorable discharge, just that he was discharged.
I thought so at first too - but the journal/codex says dishonorable discharge.
I wouldn't really expect anything else either tbh. AI tech is banned by all of the races, playing with it not only risks starting a war but could be considered an act of treason or at the very least a war crime. Its like taking one of the UNs largest laws ... and breaking it.
It's the UN. Who Cares? Now if he broke something in the UCMJ, or did illegal WMD research....
Terran Alliance, not council. He was N7, not SPECTRE. So... whatever the Aliiance's version of the UCMJ is. Shep stole an Alliance ship, destroyed an entire Batarian star system, AND worked with Cerebrus and didn't get a DD.
Pop was a bad dog. No biscuit.
To be fair, Shep saved the existence of the Galactic government and got humanity a seat at the big kids table, got really famous, may have gotten his co-conspirator diplomatic immunity and quite a bit of power, and may be supported by 1 or more major political parties (such as Terra Prima).🥳
Alec had a minor diplomatic position and a tendency to be grouchy, so no one cared if he got fired😢
@fudgietroll wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
Terran Alliance, not council. He was N7, not SPECTRE. So... whatever the Aliiance's version of the UCMJ is. Shep stole an Alliance ship, destroyed an entire Batarian star system, AND worked with Cerebrus and didn't get a DD.
Pop was a bad dog. No biscuit.
To be fair, Shep saved the existence of the Galactic government and got humanity a seat at the big kids table, got really famous, may have gotten his co-conspirator diplomatic immunity and quite a bit of power, and may be supported by 1 or more major political parties (such as Terra Prima).🥳
Alec had a minor diplomatic position and a tendency to be grouchy, so no one cared if he got fired😢
I would not want to be one of the select few that sat on an Admiralty Board and gave the savior of the Milky Way a dishonorable discharge. 😛
To think there's no politics in the military is naive. Merit only goes so far - especially when you start to bend the rules. Shep needed all three things to survive in the Alliance; merit, being right, and powerful patrons.
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@fudgietroll wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
Terran Alliance, not council. He was N7, not SPECTRE. So... whatever the Aliiance's version of the UCMJ is. Shep stole an Alliance ship, destroyed an entire Batarian star system, AND worked with Cerebrus and didn't get a DD.
Pop was a bad dog. No biscuit.
To be fair, Shep saved the existence of the Galactic government and got humanity a seat at the big kids table, got really famous, may have gotten his co-conspirator diplomatic immunity and quite a bit of power, and may be supported by 1 or more major political parties (such as Terra Prima).🥳
Alec had a minor diplomatic position and a tendency to be grouchy, so no one cared if he got fired😢
I would not want to be one of the select few that sat on an Admiralty Board and gave the savior of the Milky Way a dishonorable discharge. 😛
To think there's no politics in the military is naive. Merit only goes so far - especially when you start to bend the rules. Shep needed all three things to survive in the Alliance; merit, being right, and powerful patrons.
This occurred to me later.
N7 is not a rank or anything. It just means Alec was special forces.
... Oh, come on... The Initiative Pathfinders wear the pathfinder armor, what do you want to get stated about that? It only states N7 on it to honor Alec's status as an ex N7. That armor was developed to them BY the Initiative...
HOWEVER, the original N7 armor ingame is Alec's armor from the alliance days, "personally modified for him".
You don't need more explanation, as this is quite clear, he WAS wearing that N7 armor until he left the alliance, and/or until the Initiative finished the Pathfinder armor.
Seriously, is it that hard to put this together?
-We seen him wear the Pathfinder, and that is the -uniform- armor of the civilian organisation Initiative for Pathfinders.
-and the original N7 states that it -was- worn by him, and was modified for him, it is an alliance army armor, and Alec is came from the alliance...
This is quite enough information to see it clearly why we don't seen him wearing the orig. N7. Hell, it is even possible that the pathfinder armor was completed well before the Initiative started..
But he kept his orig. N7 armor as a memento / precious equipment, quite like Shepard, who I can't really consider alliance military after ME1.
Speaking about dishonorable discharge, Shepard was wokring with Cerberus... Yet he was still wearing the N7 armor.
The debate should only be about the specific orig. N7 armor, as THAT is a military uniform, the text N7 only means "special forces".
Also: all this chewing on the fact that Alec did not had the right to wear the N7 armor..
It is quite possible that HE DID NOT wear the N7 armor AT ALL, RIGHT after he was discharged. .. All we know, is the original N7 "was weared by him, and it was modified for him".
And that he kept it. Noone states that he was wearing it again. Kiddo wearing it without any right is another story ..
The Pathfinder armor we seen on Alec is a CIVILIAN armor created by the initiative, it only has "N7" written on it to remind all where he came from, but you can also have a memorial t-shirt saying green beret after disharge.. that is not military uniform.
@Nykara360 wrote:I wouldn't really expect anything else either tbh. AI tech is banned by all of the races, playing with it not only risks starting a war but could be considered an act of treason or at the very least a war crime. Its like taking one of the UNs largest laws ... and breaking it.
A.I. research is not illegal by itself. You can get permits and such to do limited research into A.I., but it is incredibly regulated to the point of being pretty useless. Alec worked on things that no one wanted him to, but it's not a crime against humanity/sapiency.
@DanielLupus wrote:... Oh, come on... The Initiative Pathfinders wear the pathfinder armor, what do you want to get stated about that? It only states N7 on it to honor Alec's status as an ex N7. That armor was developed to them BY the Initiative...
HOWEVER, the original N7 armor ingame is Alec's armor from the alliance days, "personally modified for him".
You don't need more explanation, as this is quite clear, he WAS wearing that N7 armor until he left the alliance, and/or until the Initiative finished the Pathfinder armor.
Seriously, is it that hard to put this together?
-We seen him wear the Pathfinder, and that is the -uniform- armor of the civilian organisation Initiative for Pathfinders.
-and the original N7 states that it -was- worn by him, and was modified for him, it is an alliance army armor, and Alec is came from the alliance...
This is quite enough information to see it clearly why we don't seen him wearing the orig. N7. Hell, it is even possible that the pathfinder armor was completed well before the Initiative started..
But he kept his orig. N7 armor as a memento / precious equipment, quite like Shepard, who I can't really consider alliance military after ME1.
Speaking about dishonorable discharge, Shepard was wokring with Cerberus... Yet he was still wearing the N7 armor.
The debate should only be about the specific orig. N7 armor, as THAT is a military uniform, the text N7 only means "special forces".
Also: all this chewing on the fact that Alec did not had the right to wear the N7 armor..
It is quite possible that HE DID NOT wear the N7 armor AT ALL, RIGHT after he was discharged. .. All we know, is the original N7 "was weared by him, and it was modified for him".
And that he kept it. Noone states that he was wearing it again. Kiddo wearing it without any right is another story ..
The Pathfinder armor we seen on Alec is a CIVILIAN armor created by the initiative, it only has "N7" written on it to remind all where he came from, but you can also have a memorial t-shirt saying green beret after disharge.. that is not military uniform.You can consider Shep whatever you'd like but, unless something says you were discharged somewhere, you're not. I want to see Shep's DD-214. 🙂Otherwise there's no reason for him to sit around under house arrest between ME2 and ME3.
Alec could also tattoo it on his butt - but that's not the issue. He didn't "leave the service". He was discharged. Dishonorably.
The issue is a conversation with a guy who feels wearing a uniform *is* an issue. There aren't pink bunnies on it. It is not pathfinder armor. You can buy any uniform, even today, as surplus. You can also buy used police vehicles, or mail trucks, or whatever. Some people won't care one way or the other - but some people will. Believe it or not, people who feel wearing a uniform is an earned entitlement will have a bigger issue with you having lost that right/disgraced it than if you never earned the right in the first place.
It is a bigger deal to be kicked from the club than to have never been in the club... 'cause you don't get kicked from the club for petty stuff.
There's a difference between being N7 trained and being an N7. Alec is no longer an N7.
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@Nykara360 wrote:I wouldn't really expect anything else either tbh. AI tech is banned by all of the races, playing with it not only risks starting a war but could be considered an act of treason or at the very least a war crime. Its like taking one of the UNs largest laws ... and breaking it.
A.I. research is not illegal by itself. You can get permits and such to do limited research into A.I., but it is incredibly regulated to the point of being pretty useless. Alec worked on things that no one wanted him to, but it's not a crime against humanity/sapiency.
Actually, it is banned. When the VI on Luna went rogue, they wanted Shep to deal with it quietly in case it pushed the citadels rules on AI tech too far and they got disbarred from the council. The human alliance wants in on the council and the council has banned AI tech. By going against that Alec not only broke orders given to him not to pursue it, he also risked humanity being kicked off the council - that is a fairly big no, no. Almost to the point of treason to save the life of one person.
Thats what makes it a crime. By ME2, the human alliance has a seat on the council and is bound by their rules and laws - he broke them.
"In 2165, the Alliance facility at Sidon was found to have been conducting illegal AI research; the Alliance faced heavy fines and censure as a result. By 2183, only four corporations have been licensed by the Citadel to develop artificial intelligence for research purposes, one of which is Synthetic Insights, Ltd.."
"Eliza" - An experimental Alliance AI created at Gagarin Station"
"The Alliance Infiltration Unit is modeled on the Cerberus synthetic Eva that Commander Shepard's team discovered on Mars. Quantum blue-box AIs are considered illegal by the Council, but the Alliance has secured a special allowance to deploy the infiltration unit in this time of need."
That's just from the AI article over on masseffect.wikia.com
@PandaTar wrote:Is this cemetery related to those who died on those two first outposts then? Their bodies are retrieved in the end? I don't remember.
IIRC, it's for the people that were killed by Eos (the wind-radiation storms) who were buried there. The Kett showed up later (and killed/captured everyone else) and you recovered those bodies.
@PandaTar wrote:Is this cemetery to those who died on those two first outposts then? Their bodies are retrieved in the end? I don't remember.
Not the random corpses I find, that's for sure, and I don't know if the cemetery eventually disappears/they get retrieved. I'll periodically check but, at least after the initial founding of Podromos, the makeshift cemetery remains.
From a distance I originally thought it was some kind of plant I've never seen before and went over to try and scan it. Nine or so initiative helmets on poles.
No heads in them, so they're not Sloane's work. 🙂
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@PandaTar wrote:Is this cemetery to those who died on those two first outposts then? Their bodies are retrieved in the end? I don't remember.
Not the random corpses I find, that's for sure, and I don't know if the cemetery eventually disappears/they get retrieved. I'll periodically check but, at least after the initial founding of Podromos, the makeshift cemetery remains.
From a distance I originally thought it was some kind of plant I've never seen before and went over to try and scan it. Nine or so initiative helmets on poles.
No heads in them, so they're not Sloane's work. 🙂
Do you think it would have successfully warned Eos that it had better not mess around with her again?😉
