Why Can't We Lie Sometimes?

Jaal could have been being hopeful that they could come back. If I was the Archon and that facility was that important, I probably would park a few cruisers over it. And double the guards.

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@arthurh3535

"....So even though you are god-pathfinder (maybe max level with max gear) but you have to put it in context of your level 30-40 character that the game was really designed around at that point..."

This isn't relevant to the point(s) made and I feel like the rest of your post goes further off topic.  Because of that, I am just not understanding what you're trying to say.  Again, I apologize.

But this isn't a situation about me thinking we should be able to do anything and everything.  This is clear because I describe a scenario where we would be unable to do both right there and I would have accepted as much.

No, the problem is we did something.  It doesn't matter if we barely did it or if we looked like gods while doing it (which is why this was irrelevant) the bottom line is, we proved to be capable of doing it.  The base doesn't change, and Jaal even states we'll come back and yet we don't.

That is bad writing and that aspect of the mission was likely poorly written because they were too focused on their immediate goals/desires for that part.  That is my opinion.

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Except that's not actually what you did. You did not defeat the entire base, you managed to rescue the Moshae and force the commander to release the Angarians from the pods, giving you just enough time to escape before the heavy Kett reinforcements arrive. As in multiple Kett cruisers worth of Kett reinforcements. 

You did not defeat everyone in the base. In fact, you are fleeing for you lives as they send overwhelming forces to kill/capture you.

The fact you think so is just you being wishful.

@arthurh3535

Whether a person believes that we clear the entire base or not.... whether a person believes we're capable of clearing the whole base or not.... has no bearing on the fact, that as things were done, we could have blown up the base and rescued the Angarans at the same time.

It also has no bearing on the fact that we could return to the base and blow it up because we didn't have to clear the entire base in order for SAM to be able to overload the base and blow it up.  He was technically able to do it almost from the very beginning of us being there.

EDIT:

And this right here:

"....The fact you think so is just you being wishful...."

...even if it isn't intentional, is condescending.  We disagree.  There is enough to support that we either cleared this base or that we had the capability to clear this base.... there is enough to support not agreeing with that idea.  In either case, there's no need to try to label my opinion as "wishful" as though your opinion here is somehow superior.  It isn't and either one of us could be wrong about whether the base was clearable/cleared by us or not.

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@PretzleMe wrote:

@arthurh3535

Whether a person believes that we clear the entire base or not.... whether a person believes we're capable of clearing the whole base or not.... has no bearing on the fact, that as things were done, we could have blown up the base and rescued the Angarans at the same time.

It also has no bearing on the fact that we could return to the base and blow it up because we didn't have to clear the entire base in order for SAM to be able to overload the base and blow it up.  He was technically able to do it almost from the very beginning of us being there.

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We *do* get to disagree! Yay!😃

I don't know. Those dual spawning Fiends (plus filler Kett) on one fairly narrow walkway was the most intense fight for me the entire game. I couldn't even kill them both before the other respawned. It was just as intense, and even more desperate, than my first Architect fight. Mostly that's my own idiot fault, because it didn't dawn on me until late to turn and run, but I've always been able to beat these guys up to this point. Literally down to last rounds, Cobras gone, leaping about and cursing the cooldown timer. No idea where my companions are on the map as I dodge... every man for himself.

Oh, that was a good fight. 😃 Only made it out because the script let me. if that were a little more realistic it would of been SAM blowing it up with me in/on it.

@jpcerutti1

I need to know what we're disagreeing about before I respond because I didn't say it wasn't a good fight.  That's my favorite fight in the whole game to be honest and as I mentioned before, I have stayed there and fought for a VERY long time and not because I was a "god" at the time.  Far from it, but that was a great challenge to me.

But in my opinion, there were only so many enemies because they scripted it so because they just wanted you to leave.  Now if we kept watching cruisers show up.... you know something?  That would have worked as well, like if ships had shown up and started shooting you.  Oh yeah, leaving perfectly works.

Anyway, so yes, I feel like they had to script you escaping because they scripted infinite spawns.

So maybe we touched on where we disagree?  I just can't tell, lol.

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@PretzleMe wrote:

@arthurh3535

EDIT:

And this right here:

"....The fact you think so is just you being wishful...."

...even if it isn't intentional, is condescending.  We disagree.  There is enough to support that we either cleared this base or that we had the capability to clear this base.... there is enough to support not agreeing with that idea.  In either case, there's no need to try to label my opinion as "wishful" as though your opinion here is somehow superior.  It isn't and either one of us could be wrong about whether the base was clearable/cleared by us or not.

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Only if you ignore facts. You jump into the shuttle as the Kett keep attacking. It's not leisurely strolling out after defeating everyone and thinking that you should destroy the base. You are having very selective recall if you think otherwise.

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@PretzleMe wrote:

@jpcerutti1

I need to know what we're disagreeing about before I respond because I didn't say it wasn't a good fight.  That's my favorite fight in the whole game to be honest and as I mentioned before, I have stayed there and fought for a VERY long time and not because I was a "god" at the time.  Far from it, but that was a great challenge to me.

But in my opinion, there were only so many enemies because they scripted it so because they just wanted you to leave.  Now if we kept watching cruisers show up.... you know something?  That would have worked as well, like if ships had shown up and started shooting you.  Oh yeah, leaving perfectly works.

Anyway, so yes, I feel like they had to script you escaping because they scripted infinite spawns.

So maybe we touched on where we disagree?  I just can't tell, lol.

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You actually have SAM telling you multiple times that Kett reinforcement cruisers are on their way and will be arriving any moment. They may have 'told' rather than shown, but it is explained. 

@arthurh3535

It isn't about ignoring facts in my case, it is about you ignoring what I am saying.  Several times I pointed out the fact that they script infinite spawns to make things happen.  They clearly do that here.  As I mentioned before, even in a Kett Base, I literally watched enemies appear out of nowhere.  

Clearly this was such a situation.  So they didn't spawn this magical army until they wanted you to leave which means they only did it because they wanted us to leave.  This doesn't mean the base wasn't cleared first.  In fact, someone else explained it that to them, they thought these forces had shown up because they were the reinforcements being deployed (I think someone said something along those lines).

So no, I didn't ignore anything.  It is just your perspective on why there was an infinity army there and mine are different.  It isn't wishful thinking, it's a different perspective.

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@PretzleMe wrote:

@arthurh3535

It isn't about ignoring facts in my case, it is about you ignoring what I am saying.  Several times I pointed out the fact that they script infinite spawns to make things happen.  They clearly do that here.  As I mentioned before, even in a Kett Base, I literally watched enemies appear out of nowhere.  

Clearly this was such a situation.  So they didn't spawn this magical army until they wanted you to leave which means they only did it because they wanted us to leave.  This doesn't mean the base wasn't cleared first.  In fact, someone else explained it that to them, they thought these forces had shown up because they were the reinforcements being deployed (I think someone said something along those lines).

So no, I didn't ignore anything.  It is just your perspective on why there was an infinity army there and mine are different.  It isn't wishful thinking, it's a different perspective.

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No, mine actually has facts that you are totally ignoring because it's inconvenient. Which means no other facts I bring up will make a difference as you do not have an open mind. You've made your decision and your are going to stay with it, even if you are wrong. Or most especially if you are wrong.

So I guess this will have to be the end of it.

@arthurh3535

"....No, mine actually has facts that you are totally ignoring because it's inconvenient...."

You are ignoring the fact that the game doesn't state where the infinite spawn is coming from.  You're also ignoring the fact that it is not stated as to whether you did and/or could clear the base.  In your opinion, we cannot/could not, but that is not the same as fact.

When you say that me believing we could have cleared the base is wishful thinking, you are ignoring the fact that SAM possessed the ability to blow up the base from almost the beginning of us entering the base.  Thus you are ignoring the fact that my point(s) are not been dependent on our ability to clear the base or lack thereof.

You are also ignoring the fact that I clearly stated scenarios that I would have been fine with that do not allow us to be able to do save the Angarans and blow up the facility.

I have also pointed out the fact that Jaal states that we can come back and destroy it later, a fact you chose to dismiss because it was inconvenient to your theory.

it honestly seems like you're confused about what we have been discussing here, the events during the Moshae's rescue, and or what I am/have been saying.

I wish I could explain it clearer to make it easier for you to understand and equally wish you were able to do the same for me.  Being you seem unwilling to/incapable of accepting, not just the facts, but different perspectives regarding them, you maybe correct in thinking it might be best for you to end things here.

Regardless, I do appreciate you attempting to participate in this discussion.

i suppose i can go through my reinforcement theory again if you like? if no one is interested just scroll past this... 

we know that cruisers are approaching the kett facility, as to why it takes so long, my guess is that they don't have in-system ftl capability (meaning they are incapable of either plotting or executing an flt jump where the start & end points are too close together, or it might have to do with atmospheric interference i guess, not really important).

shuttles are likely faster then said cruiser so they arrive first (didn't add the science lecture this time). we don't see them as they couldn't drop then in the thick of your ground forces, so the shuttles made drops at an alternate shuttlepad, on their way through the facility the kett troopers & heavy gunners released the finished fiends locked in their cells in the exaltation facility, as the shuttles return to the cruisers to drop more kett on that alternate landing pad, rinse & repeat. unending waves of kett and fiends.