@PernellKarl027 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867Well the definition of a hockey videogame is a very personal definition by different types of people. I never ever want to play online because to me that’s not hockey.
This is the greatest sport on earth, don’t make a mockery of it….
If I wanna go crazy once in awhile playing against my daughter on the couch, I’ll fire a 3s game with the mascots. Or else, I play my setup that’s the closest to the real sport possible and that’s what brings me joy. To me all the little nuances, all the little details is what a game of hockey should be. But that’s just my opinion.
To each their own.
I don't understand your issue then?
You don’t understand my issue ? I’m lost…
I was just responding to one of your post that YOU seemed to have an issue with people wanting a hockey game that resembles the real thing. That’s all…
@PernellKarl027 wrote:You don’t understand my issue ? I’m lost…
I was just responding to one of your post that YOU seemed to have an issue with people wanting a hockey game that resembles the real thing. That’s all…
This game does resemble real hockey. It's also a video game, subject to the same bugs and animation quirks as literally every other video game ever made.
This idea that "NHL 24 isn't hockey" is so dumb. It's okay to say you don't like it. To say it's not your cup of tea. I encourage anyone who doesn't appreciate the game to not buy it. Why would you waste money on something you know you're not going to like?
But it's just wrong to say "it doesn't resemble the real thing". It clearly does. It's just not your personal idea of what video game hockey should be and you're totally allowed to express that opinion.
As for bugs and glitches, yea - let's keep hammering those home so they can be fixed. But let's not precede these suggestions with claims that nobody who enjoys it understands hockey or that the game itself doesn't resemble the sport at all.
This game does resemble real hockey. It's also a video game, subject to the same bugs and animation quirks as literally every other video game ever made.
I agree to a certain extent. The same way that NBA Street resembles Basketball…
This idea that "NHL 24 isn't hockey" is so dumb
I never said that. And you shouldn’t use the word ''dumb'' for people that don’t have the same views as you do.
As for bugs and glitches, yea - let's keep hammering those home so they can be fixed. But let's not precede these suggestions with claims that nobody who enjoys it understands hockey or that the game itself doesn't resemble the sport at all.
Again, I never ever said that the DEVS don’t know or understand Hockey…
You are right. I won’t buy NHL24 for the 1st time since NHL91… I don’t like the direction the game is taking.
My views are that this is an arcade game first and foremost sprinkled with a few sim elements here and there. And that’s what bothers me the most as a die hard hockey fan.
@PernellKarl027 wrote:My views are that this is an arcade game first and foremost sprinkled with a few sim elements here and there. And that’s what bothers me the most as a die hard hockey fan.
Right on. I think you're wrong, but that's the beauty of the internet.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@PernellKarl027 wrote:My views are that this is an arcade game first and foremost sprinkled with a few sim elements here and there. And that’s what bothers me the most as a die hard hockey fan.
Right on. I think you're wrong, but that's the beauty of the internet.
Ok, if you think I’m wrong, answer me just one question.
I played the 10 hour trial, and whenever I start an NHL game for the 1st. Time, I go into the PRESETS and put on FULL SIM preset and go from there to see how the game plays like. In NHL24, there’s none of this. No PRESETS like we use to have. We had 4 different sets before… Now, there’s ONLY ONE with 3 or 4 minutes periods. Correct me if I’m wrong 🤔
Now, I told myself, let’s play AS IS for my 1st game to see how it goes.
Now, my question is this, how could I achieve close to real game stats (NHL Full 60) in a game that lasted 9 to 12 minutes ? This is the first question you should ask yourself… How soooo FAR from a simulation this gameplay truly is !
And you know what, I’m only talking about gameplay here, not talking about the Fortnite elements that EA incorporated in the game.
@PernellKarl027 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@PernellKarl027 wrote:My views are that this is an arcade game first and foremost sprinkled with a few sim elements here and there. And that’s what bothers me the most as a die hard hockey fan.
Right on. I think you're wrong, but that's the beauty of the internet.
Ok, if you think I’m wrong, answer me just one question.
I played the 10 hour trial, and whenever I start an NHL game for the 1st. Time, I go into the PRESETS and put on FULL SIM preset and go from there to see how the game plays like. In NHL24, there’s none of this. No PRESETS like we use to have. We had 4 different sets before… Now, there’s ONLY ONE with 3 or 4 minutes periods. Correct me if I’m wrong 🤔
Now, I told myself, let’s play AS IS for my 1st game to see how it goes.
Now, my question is this, how could I achieve close to real game stats (NHL Full 60) in a game that lasted 9 to 12 minutes ? This is the first question you should ask yourself… How soooo FAR from a simulation this gameplay truly is !
And you know what, I’m only talking about gameplay here, not talking about the Fortnite elements that EA incorporated in the game.
I would wager maybe .01% of the people who buy this game are going to play full 60 minute games.
@PernellKarl027But look how EA represents their sports games. It's always like 80% real with 20% arcade. I mean Madden has plays that people deem cheating because they are so effective. FC (formerly FIFA) has so many crazy unrealistic things like strikers running back and forth full field, and still the most basic of moves confuse the AI with the fake shot in the box and ball roll working all the time.
EA just does their sports this way. Even 2K has crazy plays. I'd say MLB The Show is the closest thing to a sim experience without changing settings.
The difference is people can choose to play a full sim way if they want but most are gonna sprinkle in that arcade feel because it is fun.
@KlariskraysNHL wrote:@PernellKarl027But look how EA represents their sports games. It's always like 80% real with 20% arcade. I mean Madden has plays that people deem cheating because they are so effective. FC (formerly FIFA) has so many crazy unrealistic things like strikers running back and forth full field, and still the most basic of moves confuse the AI with the fake shot in the box and ball roll working all the time.
EA just does their sports this way. Even 2K has crazy plays. I'd say MLB The Show is the closest thing to a sim experience without changing settings.The difference is people can choose to play a full sim way if they want but most are gonna sprinkle in that arcade feel because it is fun.
I would love an NHL game that's 80% real! Sounds like a dream! We're at 20% real with 80% arcade that's what everyone is complaining about right now!!
I love EA FC for pro clubs - its a great balance imo.
I lvoe madden 24 - first ive bought since 16 as they were going through their own dry/not fun spell. Im definitiely not a "full sim" guy!!
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:I would wager maybe .01% of the people who buy this game are going to play full 60 minute games.
So that’s your answer ? I never said that I’m looking for a full 60 minutes periods, but a good balance would be good 🤔 I was just saying that if you get full stats in 9 minutes games, there’s something wrong somewhere.
At the end of the day, people will have a different perception of what is a Simulation and what is not. But it would be nice OOTB to have something in the middle ? When you see that one and only preset out of the gate, it tells you clearly where EA wants to go.
@KlariskraysNHL wrote:
@Limp_KidzKit@PernelKarl027 has proven to us you can play a sim experience in the games for NHL.
For EA FC you talking all humans or CPU in there? 11v11 humans is great but when AI gets involved they can be abused with simple tactics/moves. I will say for the most goalies are insane for CPU there.
Thanks ! But I got really overzealous on 23 to achieve something really closer to that of a real NHL game. I’m playing 15 minutes periods right now of what I consider the closest to the REAL thing.
We’ve put more than 1000 hours to achieve this… Keep in mind that if we had a Global Editor of some sorts, time would have been way less.
You think that anyone that looks for a "hardcore" experience has that kind of time to do all of this ? Also to learn all the in's and out’s of sliders and players edits ?
There needs to be an option for hockey guys like us (maybe few) to have a semblance of that experience OOTB IMO.
@KlariskraysNHL wrote:
@Limp_KidzKit@PernelKarl027 has proven to us you can play a sim experience in the games for NHL.
For EA FC you talking all humans or CPU in there? 11v11 humans is great but when AI gets involved they can be abused with simple tactics/moves. I will say for the most goalies are insane for CPU there.
Sim according to who? I cant get a sim experience on an EA game. have you watched the goalies in 23 and 24 lol? theyre about as robotic an unbelievable as a 2000's PS1 game. From the pucks they eat to the pucks they spit out to the lack of 1st shot goals with multiple options to the insane reaction times...its just not sim at all.
defense dont pinch properly, theres zero realistic forecheck strategies, the AI cant execute any of the available powerplay strats, AI still dont know how to play a 6v5, what is "sim" about it?
Not to mention the fact that karl has spents literally hundreds..probably thousands of hours editing global attributes and sliders and hes created a "kinda" sim experience (to no fault of his own) - just goes to show how this is 20% real and 80% arcade. If you dedicate your whole year and do crazy amounts of testing and slider tweaking, you can almost get this game to look like high school level hockey when the stars align and the AI accidentally do something correct for a few sequences in a row.
As far as fifa goes, i said pro clubs. EASHL would have to "dial 1" or an operator to even remotely try and contact the "sim" world. its not even remotely close. at least fifa can flow like soccer. Its expedited and faster with high success rates, sure. But the way you can control the pace, find space, and the way ball movement is effective flows so much more organically and naturally than eashl. eashl is a game for toddlers in my opion. 0-5 trap, sprint fdown the wall, wiggle wiggle wiggle, force your 800 mph pass to your buddy who is in a full sprint and has zero consequences for it and watch him tee up a 1-t in stride.
its like shockuing how little hockey is offered in eashl compared to fifa pro clubs.
Sim according to who? I cant get a sim experience on an EA game. have you watched the goalies in 23 and 24 lol? theyre about as robotic an unbelievable as a 2000's PS1 game. From the pucks they eat to the pucks they spit out to the lack of 1st shot goals with multiple options to the insane reaction times...its just not sim at all.
Hey man ! I’m very proud to say that we have fixed ROBO. That was one of the main things I wanted to fix in our last update 😀
Not to mention the fact that karl has spents literally hundreds..probably thousands of hours editing global attributes and sliders and hes created a "kinda" sim experience (to no fault of his own) - just goes to show how this is 20% real and 80% arcade. If you dedicate your whole year and do crazy amounts of testing and slider tweaking, you can almost get this game to look like high school level hockey when the stars align and the AI accidentally do something correct for a few sequences in a row.
I was agreeing with you until you said High School Level hockey, lol ! Now come on ! Have you tested our latest setup ?
@PernellKarl027 wrote:Sim according to who? I cant get a sim experience on an EA game. have you watched the goalies in 23 and 24 lol? theyre about as robotic an unbelievable as a 2000's PS1 game. From the pucks they eat to the pucks they spit out to the lack of 1st shot goals with multiple options to the insane reaction times...its just not sim at all.
Hey man ! I’m very proud to say that we have fixed ROBO. That was one of the main things I wanted to fix in our last update 😀
Not to mention the fact that karl has spents literally hundreds..probably thousands of hours editing global attributes and sliders and hes created a "kinda" sim experience (to no fault of his own) - just goes to show how this is 20% real and 80% arcade. If you dedicate your whole year and do crazy amounts of testing and slider tweaking, you can almost get this game to look like high school level hockey when the stars align and the AI accidentally do something correct for a few sequences in a row.
I was agreeing with you until you said High School Level hockey, lol ! Now come on ! Have you tested our latest setup ?
Yes. The AI just don't have even close to the foundational strategies to replicate NHL hockey. Only so much can be done with "1-2-2 passive" lol. The AI just dont have the patience and creative puck movement to replicate high level hockey. Like i said, no fault of your own its just the game.
I youtubed a full game and this is one that came up. This is about 30 seconds of play from the first minute of the first period. Is any of this captured in NHL 24?
Lots of chips up the walls, down the walls, into open spaces in the corners, the players usually have the puck for what seems like less than a second before doing something with it, lots of contested pucks, boardplay, etc.
I know its a videogame and it can't be perfect but it can do better than this:
No loose pucks, players hold on to the puck way too long, no contested possession, no dumps, etc.
@Jagavekov wrote:I youtubed a full game and this is one that came up. This is about 30 seconds of play from the first minute of the first period. Is any of this captured in NHL 24?
Lots of chips up the walls, down the walls, into open spaces in the corners, the players usually have the puck for what seems like less than a second before doing something with it, lots of contested pucks, boardplay, etc.
I know its a videogame and it can't be perfect but it can do better than this:
No loose pucks, players hold on to the puck way too long, no contested possession, no dumps, etc.
@Jagavekov
A bit more Like This ?
This was not staged in any way. Just the start of the game with my SETUP of NHL23. Me playing LD locked for the Kraken.
A clip of back to back in zone possession by the RED Wings and by the Blues….
I play LD lock for the Red Wings, I’m controlling Petry 46…
Why I’m showing you this… With the game tuned the proper way with players edits and good sliders, this could fix lots and lots of online problems IMO…
@PernellKarl027
But whats wrong with the crowd, everyone's doing phone stuff instead of cheering?
That crowd dosent deserve your hockey! 😁
@Sega82mega wrote:@PernellKarl027
But whats wrong with the crowd, everyone's doing phone stuff instead of cheering?
That crowd dosent deserve your hockey! 😁
LOL 😂
It was during covid 😉 Sometimes I play with no other sounds than the pure hockey sounds. It makes me really focus on the gameplay and it’s therapeutic at the same time 😀✌️
@PernellKarl027 wrote:A clip of back to back in zone possession by the RED Wings and by the Blues….
I play LD lock for the Red Wings, I’m controlling Petry 46…
Why I’m showing you this… With the game tuned the proper way with players edits and good sliders, this could fix lots and lots of online problems IMO…
I totally agree - the game could be WAY BETTER online with better sliders. They wouldn't solve all the problems or make the game innovative/truly a step up from NHL 07 (AI, actual physics, more manual controls), but they would make it way better.
There are a million slider changes they should make and you seem to have a good handle on them, but even just turning up the "board effect on puck carrier" slider that has been there untouched for years would help reduce some of the unrealistic figure skating in the corners. Actually putting some responsibility on the puck carrier to stay within the boundaries of the rink would be a nice improvement.
@PernellKarl027
Hehe nice, No charge therapy session, DEE best once!
Just the puck, the ice and you. And the moooonshine 🏒🌘 or the crowd in Rogers Arena is good enough. 😄
@Jagavekov wrote:
@PernellKarl027 wrote:A clip of back to back in zone possession by the RED Wings and by the Blues….
I play LD lock for the Red Wings, I’m controlling Petry 46…
Why I’m showing you this… With the game tuned the proper way with players edits and good sliders, this could fix lots and lots of online problems IMO…
I totally agree - the game could be WAY BETTER online with better sliders. They wouldn't solve all the problems or make the game innovative/truly a step up from NHL 07 (AI, actual physics, more manual controls), but they would make it way better.
There are a million slider changes they should make and you seem to have a good handle on them, but even just turning up the "board effect on puck carrier" slider that has been there untouched for years would help reduce some of the unrealistic figure skating in the corners. Actually putting some responsibility on the puck carrier to stay within the boundaries of the rink would be a nice improvement.
Remember that sliders are just a part in all of this. Tons of players edits have been done to get that gameplay. I even used XFACTORS to our advantage to get the most out of the game. Imagine having NHL stats on around 15 minutes periods, without sacrificing real speed, pass receptions, and puck movements. If we can tweak the game for the hardest conditions, after this, it would be a breeze adjusting it to accommodate shorter periods without destroying the foundation 😀
The foundation of my Setup, is the PUCK CARRIER AGILITY at 0 to combat the unrealistic way of players to get out of corners like magicians. This was my first sliders that I changed for 22-23 that made a huge difference. Players now turn realistically, they have weight to them and you can feel the huge difference when you control a Jack Hughes compared to a Milan Lucic 😀
The board effect was also in the higher numbers in the beginning, but I saw a couple of times weird plays that resulted because of this. The AI will sometimes skates towards the boards without braking 😳
Here are my checking sliders right now and I found that by putting the Stumble Thresholds at 0 and having all the EFFECTS ones at 100 except the speed one, we get the best players behaviours in almost all situations 😀
CHECKING
Alright, this is not a thread for my Setup 😉 But I just wanted to show that if there was Settings close to these ones, I would surely play a couple of games online 😀 Put the game as close to the REAL thing and you would almost negate all the major complaints from online peeps.
You would get:
- Limited time and space. Like in the real game.
- Realistic Skating.
- Poke that works as intended.
- Intercepting Cross-Crease.
- AI that would help you instead of being a nuisance.
- Playing Defense would now be in a very good place.
And that’s just a few things on top of my head 😉
Peace ✌️
