Isn't it kind of insulting to the NHL and the sport of hockey

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@PernellKarl027 wrote:

@KidShowtime1867 

Im relaxed buddy, don’t worry 😉 

Its just when you highlight what I said and you respond to me especially, I’m pretty sure it was directed at least in part towards me.

At the end of the day, you are satisfied with the game you have been playing online for the past 30 years and I’m clearly not. No need to argue about this.

And if you see my posts around here, you would know what I want in a hockey game. You would have probably seen what I’ve done for 23 to make it play like I want… OFFLINE…. For once in my life, I would like to enjoy this setup ONLINE with my friends and bros. But that day will never happen I guess 😐

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I think we both agree on that haha. We just want a bloody good hockey game we can play with our friends.

We need GM Connected, with custom sliders. EA would instantly satisfy a large number of users but instead we get a pressure system lmao

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If by "cater to the casuals" you mean market the game to new players, congratulations - you've figured out the entire goal of releasing a videogame. As someone who has played this game for 30 years - I can assure you that the claims that 'nobody will play this game in February' are made every single year, and yet every single year I have no problems finding online competition right through to the next release.

The game will market itself to new players if it is good at replicating the sport. When it was winning sports game of the Year awards the population of people playing was at it's peak. They were constantly moving it towards hockey simulation every year. It kept the fans happy, people were genuinely in agreement the game was moving in a great direction, etc.

The Michigan isn't pulling in any new players. If anything it's hurting the amount of people playing the game. I don't go and play the baseball game and expect to hit home runs every single play. I don't go and play Madden and want to have the same play work every time. People don't play basketball and want to posterize every play.

People want the sport it replicates otherwise they'd gravitate to the arcade games that emulate the sport. And all of these sports gaming companies are trending the same direction: aiming towards microtransactions to supplement their lost revenue because they are losing their bases.

Every year this development team gets fed hundreds of great ideas and every time they use one of the good ones that simulate the sport (such as making the fans sound more authentic, improving the skating, making hitting more realistic, etc.) it's received well.

Every year they add one of their terrible ideas they conjured up themselves we end up with the messes we get and people complain about it endlessly. Nobody asked for tunnel of doom celebrations. Nobody wanted the Michigan to come into the game because they knew it'd turn out like this, etc.

It's as if a 5 year old is deciding what he thinks is cool about hockey and getting a staff full of adults to implement it for him. 

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@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:

 When it was winning sports game of the Year awards the population of people playing was at it's peak. They were constantly moving it towards hockey simulation every year. It kept the fans happy, people were genuinely in agreement the game was moving in a great direction, etc.

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The fans were happy, but the forums were the same exact thing you see today; constant complaints from users who were dissatisfied that EA's representation of hockey did not match their expectations. 

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@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:

The Michigan isn't pulling in any new players. If anything it's hurting the amount of people playing the game.

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Doubtful. And I don't recall saying that The Michigan alone was "bringing in new customers". Although I would argue that the freedom and ease of which one can attempt a Michigan DOES give players a sense of creativity that could make them come back for more, the change to the meta by way of the pressure system (which I'm not a fan of) was also an attempt to grab some new players or players who haven't upgraded in a while. 

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@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:

People want the sport it replicates otherwise they'd gravitate to the arcade games that emulate the sport. And all of these sports gaming companies are trending the same direction: aiming towards microtransactions to supplement their lost revenue because they are losing their bases.

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I agree - microtransactions have ruined the effort put forth by developers to create unique and engaging experiences but I would argue that the pressure system and the changes to the controls are EA's attempt at changing this. Like I said, I personally despise the pressure system, but I can appreciate the effort in trying to give the player-base something different. 

Does anyone here recall the days of The Breakaway Camera?

This was during the PEAK of EA NHL being regarded as the best hockey simulation ever made and it was poorly received by the community, I can assure you.

But what it showed was that when you're making a yearly game based on a sport that doesn't really go through any cosmetic and systemic changes, the game is going to become stale. As a producer under the gun to generate more interest, you need to take some chances. The Pressure system is just another chance EA has taken, along with making dekes more accessible and revamping the control scheme.

I'm not the biggest fan of some of the changes but like I said - you have to respect that some effort is being taken. These aren't just checkboxes they tick off either. These 'features' - if you want to call them that - go through MONTHS of producing, debugging, patching, etc. It's a huge effort that is lost on 99% of the community who still think adding something to the game is just a simple copy-paste. 

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@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:

Every year they add one of their terrible ideas they conjured up themselves we end up with the messes we get and people complain about it endlessly. Nobody asked for tunnel of doom celebrations. Nobody wanted the Michigan to come into the game because they knew it'd turn out like this, etc.

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Yes, they need to take these risks to avoid stagnation. Quality of life improvements aside, they need something to market. 

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@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:

It's as if a 5 year old is deciding what he thinks is cool about hockey and getting a staff full of adults to implement it for him. 

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Not in the slightest. 

Honestly, if we want to break down and look at things, some of the changes they have made are not bad. Pressure system and goalie fatigue are good additions, having glass cracking and hip checks back in the game are good as well. The main issue with this is these additions (pressure system and hip checks as the standouts) were just not implemented well. The time it takes to stop the pressure system is too long after you gain possession and break out of the zone. Also, it seems like each player during the pressure is skating in literal mud, even with a line that has full energy (making the endurance of that line completely useless), also once you do get it down and if you get the chance to "dump" it into the offensive zone that full energy line is now useless and has to be changed even if they were on the ice for 7 seconds. The hip checks are too OP and should be like the normal checking where you have to charge it up and not just a button press, doesn't make sense to have 2 different functions to just hit in an NHL game. Moving on to more of the presentation side of it. The new lighting on the faceoffs is a great touch along with the licensed music. Now with the new goal celebrations and hit cams, they are cool for an arcade game like NHL Hitz but do not give you the feel of an NHL game. Don't get me wrong for the right arcade-style game they would be amazing (minus the mindless AI players who have no idea what to do during that time and look lost), but it seems like there is a delay to the crowd reaction on the goal as prior years the moment the puck would enter the net you would see the fans start to react now it seems like there is a 3-4 second delay on it (this is very noticeable on replays). Sadly, all of these additions good or bad came at a cost as we lost full presentation, yes I do know minimal replays have been added back but I can go a few games without a goalie save replay and the hit replays seem to be sporadic (normal to highlighted ones) but doesn't replace the full in-game experience. More so from this, if we want to look at NHL games from the past few years it was promoted as "new" or mentioned as improved intros (not even all teams have a unique one yet) but when you look at intros and improvement or innovation this is sadly false cause you just need to look at prior EA NHL titles (NHL 14) that offer more of an intro in length and also animations (lights dimming in the arena, fans booing the opposition team as they skate onto the ice, home team players walk from the hallway, arena announcer introduces the team, players skate onto the ice (some used the props you can still select in create a team) has a light show with the team logo and have them skate before it goes to talking about players, and then to goalie intros. From what I listed it seems like this is a downgrade actually from what it should be. Innovation is based on growth but it seems like it is always 1 step forward and 4 steps back with this game franchise, It is a give and take and not just building a good foundation and improving on that without having so many removals year after year.  I could easily go on further with what is missing or not improved (GM connected, an actual BAP mode - where the winning team will pull the goalie so you can get back in the game) - yes this has happened in multiple games, but my point has been made that the structure was there and they could have had a good offline and online experience if they hadn't found a need to strip down the game to begin with (NHL 15), release a tech demo - add in the NBC stuff and then remove them, to having no real intro to adding (limited intros) but removing all presentation. When will it just be here is the game we added this and this in, and oh hey we didn't take anything out. That is the real dream..... 

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@Jagavekov wrote: there should be way more dump ins than Michigan attempts in typical game of video game hockey, regardless of how "sim" you want it to be, and that is not the case with NHL 24.  Unbelievable.

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So you want to artificially force players to dump the puck when they don't want to?  If my opponent refuses to engage me through the neutral zone, you're suggesting EA should introduce some type of artificial mechanic that forces me to play dump and chase, just to satisfy this 'need' to have the game be completely 'sim'? When in actuality, I can just walk into their D-Zone and maintain puck pussession.. like why in the world would I want to dump the puck when 80% of the user-base plays defense in such a way that allows me free reign into their zone?

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What do you think I am asking for?  A special "dump in meter" where if you dump it in enough times it fills up and you get a boost and your opponent gets nerfed?  That would be so inauthentic, gimmicky, and arcadey right?

The outcome I am talking about should be achieved through altering the mechanics to be more realistic.  Everyone in this game has played an extremely passive forecheck, neutral zone, and defensive zone system for the past many years because the mechanics are so unforgiving for people who play aggressive defense.  

The momentumless skating and the fact that the boards don't matter allow the puck carrier to prevent being angled out and evade forecheckers with ease, it is very difficult to put the puck carrier in a position that they can't escape out of.  If you do  happen to get in a bad position with the puck on the breakout, the way too forgiving passing and pass receiving mechanics let you make a no-look  backhand pass to a player who is not facing you that is received with ease.  

So no, it shouldn't be "artificial", making smart hockey plays should be incentivized by the game mechanics.  A lot of it could be made better with just tweaks to the online slider set.

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@Jagavekov wrote: there should be way more dump ins than Michigan attempts in typical game of video game hockey, regardless of how "sim" you want it to be, and that is not the case with NHL 24.  Unbelievable.

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So you want to artificially force players to dump the puck when they don't want to?  If my opponent refuses to engage me through the neutral zone, you're suggesting EA should introduce some type of artificial mechanic that forces me to play dump and chase, just to satisfy this 'need' to have the game be completely 'sim'? When in actuality, I can just walk into their D-Zone and maintain puck pussession.. like why in the world would I want to dump the puck when 80% of the user-base plays defense in such a way that allows me free reign into their zone?

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Would you say the same if the example was "should players be forced to pass if the game doesn't require them to because then it's more 'sim'?"

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Players shouldn't be forced to do anything. The freeodm that this game allows is what makes it fun. People like to claim the offensive freedom trumps defensive skill, but that's not the case at all. I think people just hate defending and their hatred for it makes it seem like it's 'harder' than offense. 

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I find this a super odd take but you're entitled to your opinion. 

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The only odd take here is that EA is at fault for players not playing sim-style hockey in a videogame. 

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This is ridiculous.  People will do anything they can to win in an online game, you and I both know that.  To expect the "honor system" to be the reason people play sim hockey online is insane.  A few years ago people flipped the puck over the glass for minutes on end to result in a desync to avoid a loss.  Do you think these people will pressure at the blueline or clear the puck on the PK because if it is realistic, even if it puts them at a disadvantage?  It is up to the game mechanics to reward certain things and punish others.

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@Jagavekov wrote: there should be way more dump ins than Michigan attempts in typical game of video game hockey, regardless of how "sim" you want it to be, and that is not the case with NHL 24.  Unbelievable.

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So you want to artificially force players to dump the puck when they don't want to?  If my opponent refuses to engage me through the neutral zone, you're suggesting EA should introduce some type of artificial mechanic that forces me to play dump and chase, just to satisfy this 'need' to have the game be completely 'sim'? When in actuality, I can just walk into their D-Zone and maintain puck pussession.. like why in the world would I want to dump the puck when 80% of the user-base plays defense in such a way that allows me free reign into their zone?

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Would you say the same if the example was "should players be forced to pass if the game doesn't require them to because then it's more 'sim'?"

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Players shouldn't be forced to do anything. The freeodm that this game allows is what makes it fun. People like to claim the offensive freedom trumps defensive skill, but that's not the case at all. I think people just hate defending and their hatred for it makes it seem like it's 'harder' than offense. 

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Why would you ever dump the puck in if you can pass and move like this?  No time to settle any pucks, every pass and reception is perfect regardless of passer/receiver orientation, pass speed, etc.  You think if he had even the slightest fear a pass would be bobbled or intercepted and you could give up a breakaway the other way, we might incentivize more dump ins and less Xavi/Iniesta/Pedro/Fabregas/Messi style neutral zone play?  

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@Jagavekov wrote:

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This is ridiculous.  People will do anything they can to win in an online game, you and I both know that.  To expect the "honor system" to be the reason people play sim hockey online is insane. 

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Why are you making up things I'm saying and then saying those made-up things are insane? I never once said "I expect this game to have an honor system"

I said that if you want ANY sports game EVER made to play EXACTLY like the real world sport, you need BOTH parties to commit to playing a 'sim' style. Denying this fact while being completely absorbed in online play is what I could call "insane".

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@Jagavekov wrote:

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Why would you ever dump the puck in if you can pass and move like this?  No time to settle any pucks, every pass and reception is perfect regardless of passer/receiver orientation, pass speed, etc.  You think if he had even the slightest fear a pass would be bobbled or intercepted and you could give up a breakaway the other way, we might incentivize more dump ins and less Xavi/Iniesta/Pedro/Fabregas/Messi style neutral zone play?  

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You keep posting hut clips. How are you not aware that this mode is complete trash yet? Expecting realism from a mode designed to be arcade AF is insane.

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@Jagavekov wrote:

The momentumless skating and the fact that the boards don't matter allow the puck carrier to prevent being angled out and evade forecheckers with ease, it is very difficult to put the puck carrier in a position that they can't escape out of.

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This is an awful take. You need to stop playing HUT. This is why you hate the mechanics so much. Come join the OVP world.