Nhl 24 the game for everyone and anyone.
This used to be a game that took skill to be good at. Many of us have spent decades trying to master the skills to get where we are now. It's more than obvious that EA have given up on us loyal fan...
Forum Discussion
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about.
I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout.
If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about.
I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout.
If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere.
Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.
@Beauts90 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about.
I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout.
If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere.
Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.
Thank you for providing the videos.
They’re obviously not from the exact situation where I personally would use it but if it can be done in the 5 examples you’ve provide then they could and have be done in the exact situation I use to do them.
EA_Aljo has already admitted they removed this ability to help their pressure system work as they want.
That just proves how they manipulate and dumb down the game to cater to what they want and not necessarily what the majority wants. They’ll claim that’s the “feedback” they got to change and eliminate certain things but their reputation doesn’t help their cause.
EA’s track record proves that!
@Beauts90 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about.
I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout.
If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere.
Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.
Like I said and what keeps getting ignored: the flip dump could use more velocity. I've posted clips of the current flip dump doing exactly what you see in these videos, but I'm still told it's "impossible"
- EA_Aljo
Community Manager
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:That just proves how they manipulate and dumb down the game to cater to what they want and not necessarily what the majority wants. They’ll claim that’s the “feedback” they got to change and eliminate certain things but their reputation doesn’t help their cause.
EA’s track record proves that!
I think you're exaggerating just a tad here. We introduced a new mechanic to the game and adjusted the dump to support it. We have received a huge amount of feedback saying the game never changes, it's copied and pasted, etc. Of course we're going to make changes. Sometimes that means removing previous features or making changes to them. It's certainly possible the feedback we get here will cause further changes in future games. We have been listening and acting on that input. In the meantime, I recommend adapting and using any of the other numerous ways to clear the zone. I know that's more challenging now, but as discussed in this thread, it's far from impossible.
- @EA_Aljo It was the opposite of what was needed to make changes. 2k basketball where mike is from made everything a slog to play. I hope we don't get the same result with NHL, high skill should be high reward. If I want to dump the puck, the risk was taking a penalty. It was more fun the other way.
Realism is fun. Artificial nerfs are not. - EA_Aljo
I think realism being fun is debatable. We've made more realistic changes that weren't well received. Removing the speed boost with hitting this year, raising the likelihood of a tripping call a few years back. Even the pre-made builds we had in EASHL previously could be seen as more realistic. Regardless, I get what you're saying and I'm not debating the lack of realism with this mechanic. I'm just making the point that clearing the puck is far from impossible.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@Beauts90 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about.
I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout.
If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere.
Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.
Like I said and what keeps getting ignored: the flip dump could use more velocity. I've posted clips of the current flip dump doing exactly what you see in these videos, but I'm still told it's "impossible"
Maybe it’s too early in the morning, so I can’t find all of your clips, but can you please repost the video of you doing EXACTLY what is shown in example 1?
@Beauts90 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@Beauts90 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about.
I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout.
If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere.
Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.
Like I said and what keeps getting ignored: the flip dump could use more velocity. I've posted clips of the current flip dump doing exactly what you see in these videos, but I'm still told it's "impossible"
Maybe it’s too early in the morning, so I can’t find all of your clips, but can you please repost the video of you doing EXACTLY what is shown in example 1?
This banks off the glass, but I think we can agree we get the exact outcome:
There's no winger here for the breakout, but again - a flip dump up the side from in deep and out of the zone:
I'm slightly a little more up in the zone than Dillon:
Barron obtains the puck slightly before Dillon does:
But as you can see.. this is almost exactly identical with the differences being a bounce off the glass and the exact specific areas of the ice.
At the end of the day, there's s claim that high flipping the dump is impossible. I'm saying and proving that it's not. Then the goalposts get changed to "you can't high flip from deep in your own end" and then I go ahead and prove that. Then it's "you can't high flip dump from deep in your own end on your backhand instantly after a faceoff win to a winger streaking up the boards for a breakout" and then I go ahead and show how you can do exactly that. (albeit, omitting the faceoff win)
Then I ask for videos of IRL scenarios which was kindly provided. And those are great. They definitely show how velocity can be increased for sure. Something I was adamant about when this discussion first popped up back in November.
So now I'm asked to recreate the exact specific scenario in one of the clips and aside from some positional differences and the fact the puck bounces off the glass - I've shown you can get the result that's being asked for in this thread: clear the zone, get a possible breakout.
What's next? "No that's not it. I'm talking about a high flip dump from behind your net, on your backhand, after a faceoff win in the 3rd period on Tuesday in July" ?
- EA_Aljo
What I believe is being requested is the old flip dump that went up much higher and didn't require banking off the glass. Where you could go from the corner to the opposite side of the ice and have the puck drop in the NZ. That just isn't possible currently.
@EA_Aljo wrote:What I believe is being requested is the old flip dump that went up much higher and didn't require banking off the glass. Where you could go from the corner to the opposite side of the ice and have the puck drop in the NZ. That just isn't possible currently.
I totally understand that and I don't deny that the old dump was higher. But you can achieve the exact same outcome with the tools currently in place, which some claim is impossible.
- @KidShowtime1867 For example one sadly, these are two different kinds of plays, one is a high dump the other is a low bank off the boards. Yes the outcome can be similar but there is more risk of the bank not working where a high flip out would not have that issue. That is my guess why it was removed. They want you to have a higher chance of failing so the opposing team can utilize the pressure system more.
You and I have much different definitions of “exactly”. Absolutely no goal posts are being moved here, you just haven’t provided what was asked, you just showed a very different play with similar results, again not what I asked for.
Instead of always being right, you could easily say “that particular play is no longer achievable with the new nerf, if you want I can provide clips of some plays I’ve found to work.”
Respectfully, if I wanted tips and tricks on how to play the game, that’s what I would ask for. This would save so much of the back and forth arguments that get absolutely nowhere and end up being locked on this forum.
All I’m saying is if the game is going to remove realistic features from the game to support their arcade gimmicks, that’s all well in good, but I’m far from a competitive player and would stop playing the game before I force myself to “adapt” to play a style I don’t enjoy.
I’m adding my opinion on it because I’ve enjoyed this series over the years and just simply want to enjoy it again.
- @EA_Aljo Removing the speed boost was a welcome change and was reverted because casual players could no longer bline people and lay them out.
Catering to streamers/casuals has been the issue since day 1 of the modern generation of games.
"A game made for everyone is a game made for no one" - @EA_Aljo The fact the speed burst was reset within not like next patch or a chance to see how the game plays but literally the next day is evident of them only caring if the streamers are happy. I wish my issues with the game were fixed the next day.
- EA_Aljo
I wholeheartedly disagree with catering to casuals and streamers. You can look at the patch notes to see that the changes made were a direct reflection of the feedback we received here as well as from other social media platforms.
We want to make a game that appeals to as wide an audience as possible. That is what helps the game grow. Should that happen, it stands the chance of adding more resources behind development which, in turn, means bigger changes with each release. If we make a game that only satisfies the very small playerbase that wants a simulation style experience, it would be very possible this game would cease to exist.
@MasterB89 wrote:
They want you to have a higher chance of failing so the opposing team can utilize the pressure system more.This would imply that a flip dump is the only way to relieve pressure. Sauces, passes, bank passes, chips off the glass, flip dumps, carrying the puck with skill and precision... All of those are viable options.
@KidShowtime1867Not the only way but an easier and more efficient way. EA confirmed on here that it was removed cause it diminished the effectiveness of the pressure system. Hence why it would be removed. On the rare occasions I try to play NHL 24 now I have learned to use other methods to break out of the zone but under the pressure system the stamina loss doesnt warrant all you are mentioning depending on how long you are in it.
- @EA_Aljo This implies the playerbase would not grow if the game was more satisfying to play. At what point is the direction of the series the issue? Why is simulation blamed for the lack of sales and not the arcade elements that have always been there? Sales have gone down not up year over year. That's a fact. Not speculation.
@EA_AljoI just completely disagree with your assessment the reason pga tour 2k21 sold was because it was the dark souls of golf games I heard. "Man this game is tough" and went damn let me play it. They catered to the casual audience made 2k23 and the sales went down not up. A hardcore game like Elden ring made the most money ever for Fromsoftware. By not abandoning what got them there but opening up the systems that are still hardcore. EA and your assessment of the current games industry is just flat out wrong.
Let alone the fact EA made a golf game this very year that was more casual driven and it sold worse than the casual first 2k23 at what point is EA going to realize catering to everyone caters to no one?
@MasterB89 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867Not the only way but an easier and more efficient way. EA confirmed on here that it was removed cause it diminished the effectiveness of the pressure system. Hence why it would be removed.I guess I'll just keep using this mechanic, that was apparently removed, to clear the zone and create breakouts for my wingers. Sorry ya'll have a hard time with it. Hopefully EA can buff it for you.
- @KidShowtime1867 I hope they do, it would make the game more fun.
@KidShowtime1867Then if that specific flip out was not removed or nerfed as you have stated please demonstrate it. I have not seen it yet through any of your clips? Taking personal shots at a person or player cause wr have an opinion on a play that has been confirmed removed is a bit odd.
@llamaverox wrote:@EA_AljoI just completely disagree with your assessment the reason pga tour 2k21 sold was because it was the dark souls of golf games I heard. "Man this game is tough" and went damn let me play it. They catered to the casual audience made 2k23 and the sales went down not up.
This makes sense though. If 2k1 was too difficult and someone saw 2k23.. they'd just assume 'those 2k golf games are too hard' and not buy 23. Plus EA put out a Golf title last year - that would easily chew into 2K's market share and result in lower comparitve sales.
@llamaverox wrote: A hardcore game like Elden ring made the most money ever for Fromsoftware. By not abandoning what got them there but opening up the systems that are still hardcore.It's incredibly easy to put out a non-competitive game based around 'hardcore' controls. When you remove the ego of winning/losing, people are more apt to spend time understanding the nuance.
In a game like NHL where online players just want to win at all costs, they want success instantly. They want to instantly be able to wheel snipe celly right away and these forums provide perfect examples of what making things too difficult can do to a player-base.
@llamaverox wrote:Let alone the fact EA made a golf game this very year that was more casual driven and it sold worse than the casual first 2k23 at what point is EA going to realize catering to everyone caters to no one?
Yes, when a new game enters a certain sport genre, it stands to reason that game is going to take some market share from others. With there only being 1 name in the game (2K) - it should come as no surprise that EA releasing a title would a) not sell as much as the established leader and b) the stolen share of the market would impact said leader's sales.
- @MasterB89 That's normal for the guys who like the game. I'm polite to everyone. I am treated with condescension from the people that disagree. The passive aggressive shots at a wide group of players who disagree with the forum champions is sad. I just want a fun hockey game.
@MasterB89 wrote:@KidShowtime1867Then if that specific flip out was not removed or nerfed as you have stated please demonstrate it. I have not seen it yet through any of your clips? Taking personal shots at a person or player cause wr have an opinion on a play that has been confirmed removed is a bit odd.
LOL stop trying to get the thread locked and play victim to bullying. Nobody said anything personal about anyone.
I've posted countless clips of me using the flip dump to clear the zone. No, it's not as high and doesn't have the velocity it previously did. Not sure how many times I need to keep restating that. But it's still possible. Just because I'm not showing a 1:1 player movement and execution of IRL videos does not mean it's not as effective. I've shown that you can get the same results (clear the zone, create a breakout) when executed properly.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@llamaverox wrote:@EA_AljoI just completely disagree with your assessment the reason pga tour 2k21 sold was because it was the dark souls of golf games I heard. "Man this game is tough" and went damn let me play it. They catered to the casual audience made 2k23 and the sales went down not up.
This makes sense though. If 2k1 was too difficult and someone saw 2k23.. they'd just assume 'those 2k golf games are too hard' and not buy 23. Plus EA put out a Golf title last year - that would easily chew into 2K's market share and result in lower comparitve sales.
@llamaverox wrote: A hardcore game like Elden ring made the most money ever for Fromsoftware. By not abandoning what got them there but opening up the systems that are still hardcore.It's incredibly easy to put out a non-competitive game based around 'hardcore' controls. When you remove the ego of winning/losing, people are more apt to spend time understanding the nuance.
In a game like NHL where online players just want to win at all costs, they want success instantly. They want to instantly be able to wheel snipe celly right away and these forums provide perfect examples of what making things too difficult can do to a player-base.
@llamaverox wrote:Let alone the fact EA made a golf game this very year that was more casual driven and it sold worse than the casual first 2k23 at what point is EA going to realize catering to everyone caters to no one?
Yes, when a new game enters a certain sport genre, it stands to reason that game is going to take some market share from others. With there only being 1 name in the game (2K) - it should come as no surprise that EA releasing a title would a) not sell as much as the established leader and b) the stolen share of the market would impact said leader's sales.
The word of mouth is what sells these games. Not the advertising and attempts to cater that you have suggested.
Both golf games did not get great reviews. With EA's attempt being lambasted because of it's inferiority in gameplay to the 2k game.
I'm not saying that EA isn't trying, what I'm saying is that their direction is flawed.
In all of their games people complain about the creative direction.
I'm gonna finish by asking this.
At what point do we look at the sales ramping up from 2007-2014, and declining since and go, what worked in that time frame? Why are hardcore players not buying it any longer? Why are EASHL players quitting leagues and leaving in droves.
The answer I get from every one of them.
"The game is not fun, and isn't going in a direction I enjoy"- Everyone I've asked.
Case and point I'm not buying 25. I'm done being complacent with a horribly designed slog.
