Nhl 24 the game for everyone and anyone.
This used to be a game that took skill to be good at. Many of us have spent decades trying to master the skills to get where we are now. It's more than obvious that EA have given up on us loyal fan...
Forum Discussion
@Beauts90 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about.
I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout.
If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere.
Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.
Thank you for providing the videos.
They’re obviously not from the exact situation where I personally would use it but if it can be done in the 5 examples you’ve provide then they could and have be done in the exact situation I use to do them.
EA_Aljo has already admitted they removed this ability to help their pressure system work as they want.
That just proves how they manipulate and dumb down the game to cater to what they want and not necessarily what the majority wants. They’ll claim that’s the “feedback” they got to change and eliminate certain things but their reputation doesn’t help their cause.
EA’s track record proves that!
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
Community Manager
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:That just proves how they manipulate and dumb down the game to cater to what they want and not necessarily what the majority wants. They’ll claim that’s the “feedback” they got to change and eliminate certain things but their reputation doesn’t help their cause.
EA’s track record proves that!
I think you're exaggerating just a tad here. We introduced a new mechanic to the game and adjusted the dump to support it. We have received a huge amount of feedback saying the game never changes, it's copied and pasted, etc. Of course we're going to make changes. Sometimes that means removing previous features or making changes to them. It's certainly possible the feedback we get here will cause further changes in future games. We have been listening and acting on that input. In the meantime, I recommend adapting and using any of the other numerous ways to clear the zone. I know that's more challenging now, but as discussed in this thread, it's far from impossible.
- @EA_Aljo It was the opposite of what was needed to make changes. 2k basketball where mike is from made everything a slog to play. I hope we don't get the same result with NHL, high skill should be high reward. If I want to dump the puck, the risk was taking a penalty. It was more fun the other way.
Realism is fun. Artificial nerfs are not. - EA_Aljo
I think realism being fun is debatable. We've made more realistic changes that weren't well received. Removing the speed boost with hitting this year, raising the likelihood of a tripping call a few years back. Even the pre-made builds we had in EASHL previously could be seen as more realistic. Regardless, I get what you're saying and I'm not debating the lack of realism with this mechanic. I'm just making the point that clearing the puck is far from impossible.
- @EA_Aljo Removing the speed boost was a welcome change and was reverted because casual players could no longer bline people and lay them out.
Catering to streamers/casuals has been the issue since day 1 of the modern generation of games.
"A game made for everyone is a game made for no one" - @EA_Aljo The fact the speed burst was reset within not like next patch or a chance to see how the game plays but literally the next day is evident of them only caring if the streamers are happy. I wish my issues with the game were fixed the next day.
- EA_Aljo
I wholeheartedly disagree with catering to casuals and streamers. You can look at the patch notes to see that the changes made were a direct reflection of the feedback we received here as well as from other social media platforms.
We want to make a game that appeals to as wide an audience as possible. That is what helps the game grow. Should that happen, it stands the chance of adding more resources behind development which, in turn, means bigger changes with each release. If we make a game that only satisfies the very small playerbase that wants a simulation style experience, it would be very possible this game would cease to exist.
- @EA_Aljo This implies the playerbase would not grow if the game was more satisfying to play. At what point is the direction of the series the issue? Why is simulation blamed for the lack of sales and not the arcade elements that have always been there? Sales have gone down not up year over year. That's a fact. Not speculation.
@EA_AljoI just completely disagree with your assessment the reason pga tour 2k21 sold was because it was the dark souls of golf games I heard. "Man this game is tough" and went damn let me play it. They catered to the casual audience made 2k23 and the sales went down not up. A hardcore game like Elden ring made the most money ever for Fromsoftware. By not abandoning what got them there but opening up the systems that are still hardcore. EA and your assessment of the current games industry is just flat out wrong.
Let alone the fact EA made a golf game this very year that was more casual driven and it sold worse than the casual first 2k23 at what point is EA going to realize catering to everyone caters to no one?
@llamaverox wrote:@EA_AljoI just completely disagree with your assessment the reason pga tour 2k21 sold was because it was the dark souls of golf games I heard. "Man this game is tough" and went damn let me play it. They catered to the casual audience made 2k23 and the sales went down not up.
This makes sense though. If 2k1 was too difficult and someone saw 2k23.. they'd just assume 'those 2k golf games are too hard' and not buy 23. Plus EA put out a Golf title last year - that would easily chew into 2K's market share and result in lower comparitve sales.
@llamaverox wrote: A hardcore game like Elden ring made the most money ever for Fromsoftware. By not abandoning what got them there but opening up the systems that are still hardcore.It's incredibly easy to put out a non-competitive game based around 'hardcore' controls. When you remove the ego of winning/losing, people are more apt to spend time understanding the nuance.
In a game like NHL where online players just want to win at all costs, they want success instantly. They want to instantly be able to wheel snipe celly right away and these forums provide perfect examples of what making things too difficult can do to a player-base.
@llamaverox wrote:Let alone the fact EA made a golf game this very year that was more casual driven and it sold worse than the casual first 2k23 at what point is EA going to realize catering to everyone caters to no one?
Yes, when a new game enters a certain sport genre, it stands to reason that game is going to take some market share from others. With there only being 1 name in the game (2K) - it should come as no surprise that EA releasing a title would a) not sell as much as the established leader and b) the stolen share of the market would impact said leader's sales.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@llamaverox wrote:@EA_AljoI just completely disagree with your assessment the reason pga tour 2k21 sold was because it was the dark souls of golf games I heard. "Man this game is tough" and went damn let me play it. They catered to the casual audience made 2k23 and the sales went down not up.
This makes sense though. If 2k1 was too difficult and someone saw 2k23.. they'd just assume 'those 2k golf games are too hard' and not buy 23. Plus EA put out a Golf title last year - that would easily chew into 2K's market share and result in lower comparitve sales.
@llamaverox wrote: A hardcore game like Elden ring made the most money ever for Fromsoftware. By not abandoning what got them there but opening up the systems that are still hardcore.It's incredibly easy to put out a non-competitive game based around 'hardcore' controls. When you remove the ego of winning/losing, people are more apt to spend time understanding the nuance.
In a game like NHL where online players just want to win at all costs, they want success instantly. They want to instantly be able to wheel snipe celly right away and these forums provide perfect examples of what making things too difficult can do to a player-base.
@llamaverox wrote:Let alone the fact EA made a golf game this very year that was more casual driven and it sold worse than the casual first 2k23 at what point is EA going to realize catering to everyone caters to no one?
Yes, when a new game enters a certain sport genre, it stands to reason that game is going to take some market share from others. With there only being 1 name in the game (2K) - it should come as no surprise that EA releasing a title would a) not sell as much as the established leader and b) the stolen share of the market would impact said leader's sales.
The word of mouth is what sells these games. Not the advertising and attempts to cater that you have suggested.
Both golf games did not get great reviews. With EA's attempt being lambasted because of it's inferiority in gameplay to the 2k game.
I'm not saying that EA isn't trying, what I'm saying is that their direction is flawed.
In all of their games people complain about the creative direction.
I'm gonna finish by asking this.
At what point do we look at the sales ramping up from 2007-2014, and declining since and go, what worked in that time frame? Why are hardcore players not buying it any longer? Why are EASHL players quitting leagues and leaving in droves.
The answer I get from every one of them.
"The game is not fun, and isn't going in a direction I enjoy"- Everyone I've asked.
Case and point I'm not buying 25. I'm done being complacent with a horribly designed slog.
- EA_Aljo
@llamaverox wrote:
@EA_Aljo This implies the playerbase would not grow if the game was more satisfying to play. At what point is the direction of the series the issue? Why is simulation blamed for the lack of sales and not the arcade elements that have always been there? Sales have gone down not up year over year. That's a fact. Not speculation.Where did I say there was a lack of sales? Of course we'd like to see more sales. That's only good for the game in the long run. The biggest contributor to this game being more niche is the sport of hockey itself. I understand why you'd feel everyone hates the arcade elements that were added. The people that discuss this game on social media are the hardcore crowd. You don't hear from the much higher audience that doesn't fit into that category. Everyone can speculate all they want on sales figures. We know how many people are playing and if it were as low as being assumed, we wouldn't continue to release this game year after year. At least not with the amount of support it has.
Look, we can have a game that appeals to a small audience or we can have a game that does its best to appeal to a wider audience. Hockey is a game for all. We're not going to cater only to one crowd over the other. I personally consider myself to be in that hardcore group. I'm not fond of the arcade elements that were added. However, they are helping to expand the playerbase. Today's casuals are tomorrow's sim/hardcore players. There was a time we all were more casual fans. As you develop interest and get more competitive, your preference can change from enjoying 1 button Michigans to complaining about the efficacy of flip dumps.
@llamaverox wrote:Both golf games did not get great reviews. With EA's attempt being lambasted because of it's inferiority in gameplay to the 2k game.
Agreed on this! I did not enjoy EA's golf game this year. It's hard to top the fun in PGA2k21.
@llamaverox wrote:a horribly designed slog.
Well that's not very nice.
- @EA_Aljo I still heavily disagree that the changes asked for would hinder sales. We also both know the reason they continue to make the game every year. Ultimate team. If there was no ultimate team there would be no NHL game.
Ea despite the massive sale of madden and fifa, make more money from Ultimate team than all their game sales combined yearly. 4.3 billion in revenue across their games. EA only needs to sell 500k copies and the ultimate team sales alone will fund the next years game. - @KidShowtime1867 It's not really about being nice and stating my honest opinion. I've bought the game every year. I've spent thousands of hours with this series. I used to stay up til 6 in the morning with my buds because we wanted to get another game in. Now we play for an hour and can't stand it.
I don't know what else I'm supposed to say about it. I've turned off by the game. I play it out of an addiction. - EA_Aljo
@llamaverox wrote:
@EA_Aljo I still heavily disagree that the changes asked for would hinder sales. We also both know the reason they continue to make the game every year. Ultimate team. If there was no ultimate team there would be no NHL game.
Ea despite the massive sale of madden and fifa, make more money from Ultimate team than all their game sales combined yearly. 4.3 billion in revenue across their games. EA only needs to sell 500k copies and the ultimate team sales alone will fund the next years game.Of course HUT makes money. There's no denying that. If we removed that mode, would the game die? I don't think it would. HUT isn't actually the most popular mode. EASHL has it beat. Sure, the game might not receive the same amount of updates without HUT, but it wouldn't be out of production.
The sales of other games don't contribute to the overall budget NHL has. Each game is treated independently. What NHL makes goes back into NHL. Just like FC and Madden. Money from those games doesn't get diverted to others.
@llamaverox wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 It's not really about being nice and stating my honest opinion. I've bought the game every year. I've spent thousands of hours with this series. I used to stay up til 6 in the morning with my buds because we wanted to get another game in. Now we play for an hour and can't stand it.
I don't know what else I'm supposed to say about it. I've turned off by the game. I play it out of an addiction.I'm curious what makes you addicted. If you truly hated the game, I don't understand why you would keep playing it. This game isn't exactly physically addicting.
@llamaverox wrote:
@KidShowtime1867It's not really about being nice and stating my honest opinion. I've bought the game every year. I've spent thousands of hours with this series. I used to stay up til 6 in the morning with my buds because we wanted to get another game in. Now we play for an hour and can't stand it.
I don't know what else I'm supposed to say about it. I've turned off by the game. I play it out of an addiction.I hear ya. I mean let's face it: the game is stale. I've been playing since NHLPA on the Sega. I swear, I can still see presentation/animation assets that have been there since NHL 2004.
But the devs are out there trying new things. Pressure System (which I don't like), changes to controls, added some new pre-game intros, new commentary and the addition of female color commentary is awesome. One button dekes are controversial but again - an attempt by the dev team to inject some more fun into the game. I welcomed the hitting changes as it completely revamped that META (holding RS and letting the game guide you magically into a hit) and made risk/reward on defense refreshing and different.
I'd like to see less emphasis on HUT and WoC gimmicks, but I get it. Those aren't meant to appease hardcore gamers. What's weird to me is that hardcore players take those attempts to expose the game to more people as some kind of afront to them and their investment into this series.
Remember; you're not forced to buy the game year after year. As the old saying goes, "vote with your wallet". When people buy this game year after year and then spend time on social media lapping up likes and retweets for dunking on the game while simultaneously still playing it religiously every day - you're just telling EA 'Yep, we like this one. more please'. EA knows the echo chambers don't reflect the overall reception of the game.
- @EA_Aljo I love hockey. I love the 6s teamwork. There is no other game out that gets the team aspect of a sport game so right. I want the gameplay to replicate my love and it feels shallow and no skill gap. I want to have fun with my favorite series. I am not right now.
- @KidShowtime1867 I don't disagree with you, but I shouldn't have to choose between enjoying my favorite series that I feel has lost it's way and not playing it.
- EA_Aljo
@llamaverox wrote:
@EA_Aljo I love hockey. I love the 6s teamwork. There is no other game out that gets the team aspect of a sport game so right. I want the gameplay to replicate my love and it feels shallow and no skill gap. I want to have fun with my favorite series. I am not right now.I really don't think there's no skill gap. Especially with EASHL. a skilled team of 6s that has great chemistry is going to wipe the floor with a rookie club. 6s is some of the most fun and competitive, team gameplay today. There absolutely is a skill gap. Otherwise, why would leagues even have different divisions? Wouldn't that not even matter? Why would they draft players also? If no skill were required, anyone could be on any team.
Again, why play if you don't like it? I don't play games based on other sports. I just can't get into them like I can hockey. I don't play Franchise Mode in NHL because I don't enjoy it. I guess I don't understand why someone would choose to spend their leisure time with an activity they actively hate.
@EA_Aljo"actively hate" I don't actively hate it, I actively don't like the direction the series is in.
In 6s especially the skill gap in this game isn't the game itself it's the human controlled players hockey iq. The reason the good teams and I use that term loosely as I don't really believe even the best teams are better than their forces. (I used a 6'9 enforcer vs the top line of lg avalanche and we destroyed them so my personal experience backs that up.)
The issue is that it's not really skill gap it's a skill wave. If you have 5 guys that are competent at the game, you have a shot vs anyone. Which absolutely should not be the case. As you will get 2 or 3 goals off of nonsense that don't feel good to score.
The higher you get in division the more cheesy people play. Take advantage of worse players decision making while making the less skilled play because they know it will work. Etc Etc.
I could go on for an hour.
The addiction is to the series itself. Them making bad changes that I vocally want them to change doesn't change that. Am I supposed to not be vocal about and just shut up and play my games? No I'm going to constructively criticize while being told "It's just the way it is adapt" No thank you.
@llamaverox wrote:
If you have 5 guys that are competent at the game, you have a shot vs anyone. Which absolutely should not be the case. As you will get 2 or 3 goals off of nonsense that don't feel good to score.This makes no sense. Why should a team with 1 player deemed 'not competent' be instantly dismissed and not have a chance against anyone?
@llamaverox wrote:
The higher you get in division the more cheesy people play. Take advantage of worse players decision making while making the less skilled play because they know it will work. Etc Etc.Taking advantage of "worse players' decision making" is considered cheesy?
@llamaverox wrote:Am I supposed to not be vocal about and just shut up and play my games? No I'm going to constructively criticize whole being told "It's just the way it is adapt" No thank you.You absolutely should not just shut up and play without being critical of things you deem to need work. Keep it coming.
However, when someone is simply trying to explain to you how you can utilize the mechanic you want in a different way to get the same exact outcome you desire, you should listen to them and practice the advice rather than just hating because it's not the answer you want.
- @EA_Aljo I think it's more a lot of us including myself had such a strong passion for the game and the series as a whole. I remember playing through 3-4 82 games seasons on franchise mode before the next game would release. From NHL 23 and 24 I am lucky to have the urge to play 1 or 2 games every month. So we want to play it cause it has meant so much and we have such a strong passion for NHL, but due to choices being made has diminished that passion to a point where we want to love it but can't.
- EA_Aljo
@llamaverox wrote:
@EA_Aljo"actively hate" I don't actively hate it, I actively don't like the direction the series is in.
In 6s especially the skill gap in this game isn't the game itself it's the human controlled players hockey iq. The reason the good teams and I use that term loosely as I don't really believe even the best teams are better than their forces. (I used a 6'9 enforcer vs the top line of lg avalanche and we destroyed them so my personal experience backs that up.)
The issue is that it's not really skill gap it's a skill wave. If you have 5 guys that are competent at the game, you have a shot vs anyone. Which absolutely should not be the case. As you will get 2 or 3 goals off of nonsense that don't feel good to score.
The higher you get in division the more cheesy people play. Take advantage of worse players decision making while making the less skilled play because they know it will work. Etc Etc.
I could go on for an hour.
The addiction is to the series itself. Them making bad changes that I vocally want them to change doesn't change that. Am I supposed to not be vocal about and just shut up and play my games? No I'm going to constructively criticize while being told "It's just the way it is adapt" No thank you.I took you saying that you can't stand the game to mean that you hate it. I still am having a hard time differentiating between the two. I'm just not sure why someone would keep choosing to spend time with a game they can't stand. That said, I most definitely appreciate how constructive you're being. Seriously, I can't say that enough. We want people to be vocal about their likes as well as the dislikes. Too often it's ignored because it's more of a rant than coherent, constructive feedback.
At any rate, what you're talking about is a skill gap. One side is taking advantage of the poor decisions lesser skilled players make. The lesser skilled players are attempting plays they know work because their opponents are allowing them. If they're getting shots on net, someone's not defending those. Even with the nonsense goals, which we all see regularly, they're still generating offense. It's not like they're just dumping puck after puck down the ice and scoring. Yes, I'm aware that can happen with bouncing the puck off the boards.
People choosing to play cheesy is human nature. That's not inherent to our game alone. This happens with pretty much every competitive game. People are always looking for the easiest way to win. That goes for real world competition as well. As far as our games go though, we can only combat that so much before it starts affecting the overall gameplay that then affects the people playing legit. What exactly is the cheesy play you're talking about anyway? Rebounds, far side shots, the Omaha, making a 6'9" enforcer with truculence getting 40 hits a game, forced cross-crease passes? I get that people play cheesy. I'm not condoning it by any means. You also have to keep in mind that's part of the competitive nature I was talking about. Which is part of the skill gap. This is a video game. It's never going to be a 1:1 recreation of real hockey. Stopping the cheese is going to be part of the skill required to win.
- EA_Aljo
@MasterB89 wrote:
@EA_Aljo I think it's more a lot of us including myself had such a strong passion for the game and the series as a whole. I remember playing through 3-4 82 games seasons on franchise mode before the next game would release. From NHL 23 and 24 I am lucky to have the urge to play 1 or 2 games every month. So we want to play it cause it has meant so much and we have such a strong passion for NHL, but due to choices being made has diminished that passion to a point where we want to love it but can't.I can totally understand that. Especially for offline modes. They haven't received the same attention recently that online modes have. My EASHL club used to play 4 nights a week. We don't now, but that's not due to not enjoying the game. We've been doing this for 15 years. We all have careers, got married, some of us have kids. Life gets in the way of playing 20+ games a week like we used to. So, I can definitely understand not playing due to a lack of interest. If my favorite mode, EASHL, was no longer fun, I'd be spending my time elsewhere. As you've chosen to do. Hopefully, as the offline modes are expanded on, we'll see players like yourself return.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@llamaverox wrote:
If you have 5 guys that are competent at the game, you have a shot vs anyone. Which absolutely should not be the case. As you will get 2 or 3 goals off of nonsense that don't feel good to score."This makes no sense. Why should a team with 1 player deemed 'not competent' be instantly dismissed and not have a chance against anyone?"
A misunderstanding of what I said.
I'm saying that my teams are generally full of guys that aren't great at the game. We still win against world class playoff winning teams because we just are able to force cheese plays all game. It's not right. My teams should lose 6-0 against some of these teams but because the game allows offense to do whatever it wants, games end up 3-4 or some other nonsense.
I used a 6'9 enforcer where I alone was able to dominate because of the way the game uses height and weight. I was the same speed as everyone else at 86 because my stride lengths were longer I could literally win faceoffs to myself.
That is to say. The game should have a skill gap based on mechanics not just whether you can cheese the game better.
@llamaverox wrote:
The higher you get in division the more cheesy people play. Take advantage of worse players decision making while making the less skilled play because they know it will work. Etc Etc."Taking advantage of "worse players' decision making" is considered cheesy?"
Misunderstood what I said. I said, take advantage of worse decision making while making a cheesy play.
I want high skill teams to win 8-1. I don't want them doing that because they forced a pass through 3 guys that won't stand on the one-t's stick.
@llamaveroxIt was reverted because the checking was god awful after without that boost. Lots of times you felt like you connected but it wouldn't register. With people already saying defense gets no help this was a helpful revert change. Many of the changes this year have been to make things harder than easier on players. The pressure system and new flip dump have added lots of weight to playing defense even better now if you want to succeed. They made goalies somewhat better overall than what they were before. They removed the LT-ing ability this year. The ceiling of great players from average ones is still there. You can watch the esports teams/players play to see the difference between what most face and what they can do.
You can use the line well it isn't real hockey. Well we are playing a video game of hockey. It's never gonna be 1 for 1.
