Revert The Goalie Update
It's time to admit you had no idea what you were doing when you made the AI goalies dumber, the game is somehow in even worse shape afterwords. The AI goalies now let in everything from everywhere, ...
Forum Discussion
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
Community ManagerWhy shouldn't those shots go in though? These are still supposed to represent professional players. Just because they have a score in the 80s doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to score.
@EA_Aljo No disrespect at all but this is a baffling response to the videos @SummerOfDekes presented to you. I don't think anyone said skaters with stats in the mid-80s SHOULDN'T be allowed to score. He was talking about unscreened, soft wristers from the point giving goalies way more trouble than they should OR straight up hitting the back of the net.
This is one of those "realistic" things that shouldn't be modeled in the game, IMO. Do goalies IRL have "brain farts" or momentary lapses and let in absolute softies? Of course... but what should such an inconsistency be modeled in this hockey video game? One of the key aspects of solid game design is having the consequences of our actions be predictable, right?
To give an example of the opposite of this and frame it in a different genre: If you're playing a platformer like Mario and go to jump over a gap but suddenly, Mario doesn't jump because he got distracted by a Goomba in the distance and you fall into the gap, you'd be dissatisfied, right? I know I would. That would be an unearned consequence of an action I performed correctly.
This game (and all sports games) have enough "dice rolls" in them by their very nature. I think making certain things "impossible" can be helpful in terms of game design. Making it so that it's impossible for an unscreened wrister to beat a goalie from so far out would be a GOOD thing in my opinion. Taking randomness out of the game where you can result in a more satisfying experience. Or, to compromise, leave the randomness for offline, non-competitive modes as a slider that can be opted into.
- EA_Aljo
@NeonSkyline21 wrote:
@EA_Aljo No disrespect at all but this is a baffling response to the videos @SummerOfDekes presented to you. I don't think anyone said skaters with stats in the mid-80s SHOULDN'T be allowed to score. He was talking about unscreened, soft wristers from the point giving goalies way more trouble than they should OR straight up hitting the back of the net.
What they said was -"Any pro goalie who let in those kinds of shots would quickly be unemployed."
I took this to mean they should always stop those shots. Again, the high majority of these will be stopped.
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@NeonSkyline21 wrote:@EA_AljoNo disrespect at all but this is a baffling response to the videos @SummerOfDekes presented to you. I don't think anyone said skaters with stats in the mid-80s SHOULDN'T be allowed to score. He was talking about unscreened, soft wristers from the point giving goalies way more trouble than they should OR straight up hitting the back of the net.
What they said was -"Any pro goalie who let in those kinds of shots would quickly be unemployed."
I took this to mean they should always stop those shots. Again, the high majority of these will be stopped.
Your opinion is fair enough, but I'd like to note that the issue isn't just the pucks going in the net, it's how the goalies handle and react to such simple shots. Go back and watch that second clip I posted. Why would any goalie be flopping around to the point of nearly knocking the puck into his own net on such an easy, weak, low danger shot? I understand his energy was low, so it's believable that he didn't handle the puck cleanly, but why can't the ai just cover the puck? Why do the goalies constantly spaz out over the simplest things?
Whether it be human or ai goalies, the simple fact of the matter is that goalies in this game wayyy overreact to simple shots all the time. I suspect this is probably due to the fatigue system or whatever that was introduced this year, and if so then it needs to be adjusted. There is absolutely zero reason for the goalies to end up flopping around on the ice over an easy unscreened wrister from that far out. In real hockey, goalies end up flopping around because they get caught off guard by plays in tight, or because a puck took a weird deflection they weren't expecting, not because a guy mailed a puck from the parking lot.
I understand that there's a lot to work on when it comes to goalies, human and ai alike, so I don't expect it to be sorted out in NHL 24. Frankly, I think a lot of the issues are from the lack of contextual save animations/logic, so that would, at best, be something worked on for NHL 25. I just hope, as a fan of both the franchise and the goalie position, that EA will deliver needed changes to goalies next year.
Edit: and just as a bit of food for thought, the build I used in those clips had zero shooting abilities. No close quarters, make it snappy, heatseaker. Nothing.
- EA_Aljo
I absolutely agree with what you're saying and couldn't have higher hopes for goalies to be improved. I've also forwarded the high amount of goalie feedback we've had on these forums. While I'm doubtful anything will change for 24, I'm optimistic there will be goalie improvements for future games. I know you're all sick of hearing it, but we'll just have to wait for news on this.
- To be fair, "majority" is 51%,... I think this needs to be increased even from your said "high majority" to somewhere in the 99% (or 1 out of 100 shots) range from that area unobstructed. Its fair to say its that rare.
- EA_Aljo
I mentioned it being a high majority. Which is a lot more than 51%. There are some comments here that sound like they're rarely stopping these shots and that's just not true. However, I'm in agreement that they need to be improved.
