Slowly becoming pay to win

As always I appreciate the engagement Aljo.   There is the other thread we are discussing it but my concern on the McDavid build is that we already had enough complaints of people only trying to race around the defense, get in on the goalie alone, make a move and tuck it (aka the meta).  Now I get that is exactly what real life McDavid does, but I think its only going to make the game's struggle with the meta even worse.

I'm not a part of those decisions so it's not something I could shed any light on, unfortunately.

We'll have to agree to disagree. The bottom line is, you don't need the pre-made builds to win.

These forums also represent a tiny fraction of the overall playerbase. There are still many people playing every day. Very few of them visit these forums though. I can't imagine the handful of people I play with are the only ones enjoying this game. And it's not that we're all loving everything about it. There are times we get just as frustrated as everyone else. In the end, we still have a lot of fun playing this game together.

We'll have to see how it goes. I have my concerns as well. So far, we've been able to keep the speedy defense at bay most of the time. That McDavid build probably means we adapt to more speed.

It's always interesting that you and Kid experience things that nobody else is experiencing and it trumps anyone else's experience.

Can we see video of you going up against these elites with pre-made builds? I figure if you're asking us for videos you can supply your own, right? I'm not asking for clips, just throw some raw unedited videos of these games where you are routinely and consistently beating these top (elite) teams with pre-made builds.

The argument you can't prove they're winning more with these builds so they aren't is pretty wild, even for you. I get you need to defend the brand and keep saying there's no P2W elements, but bro..

You both can keep dismissing every comparison because hockey is different, but not many people are even reading the forums anymore. It doesn't even matter what we say here. The devs aren't hearing us.. most of the fans don't even play online anymore, and of the one's that do.. from my (lesser than your) experience, most are leaning toward this being P2W, or at least borderline. In your own words can you tell me what you believe P2W means? Maybe that's where this discussion needs to start? 

Can we see video of you going up against these elites with pre-made builds? I figure if you're asking us for videos you can supply your own, right? I'm not asking for clips, just throw some raw unedited videos of these games where you are routinely and consistently beating these top (elite) teams with pre-made builds.

I don't use pre-made builds. I use my own build. I'm also not claiming to be beating elite teams. I'm claiming that we've beat many teams that are using pre-made builds. Again, it's more about how you play than the makeup of your build. The same goes for HUT. It's very possible for a lower rated team to beat what would be called a P2W team. Having higher ratings is only going to magnify someone's skill. It's not going to guarantee they win every game. 

The argument you can't prove they're winning more with these builds so they aren't is pretty wild, even for you. I get you need to defend the brand and keep saying there's no P2W elements, but bro..

I don't believe I said this. I'm not trying to defend the brand. I'm purely stating my own experience.

You both can keep dismissing every comparison because hockey is different, but not many people are even reading the forums anymore. It doesn't even matter what we say here. The devs aren't hearing us.. most of the fans don't even play online anymore, and of the one's that do.. from my (lesser than your) experience, most are leaning toward this being P2W, or at least borderline. In your own words can you tell me what you believe P2W means? Maybe that's where this discussion needs to start? 

If someone can't win without using these builds, you can say they're P2W. For those of us that can win without using them, that's not the case. 

Wow!!! Huge duck on that one. Guess you could tell that wasn’t going to go your way eh?

Ahh the ol "skill issue" just dressed up, great premise!! 👍 so you can't routinely beat elite teams whom are using these builds.. but you do often enough.. so it's not P2W.. yet?

By your definition, no game is P2W. Can you give me an example of a game you CAN'T win without paying? One in which "skill" could not EVER prevail? Do you believe a P2W game exists? Personally I'd say P2W is just giving a player a sizable enough advantage to win, perhaps this is the disconnect and reason we're talking past one another. I'd argue any ultimate team mode is P2W.. sure a really good player with a bad team can beat a bad player with a good team, but a credit card is likely gonna bag you some wins, to believe it won't is just dishonest imo. Jean doesn't get auto wins.. but just like any other game that most communities feel are P2W they get a large enough advantage. Jean is certainly beatable, I've shut them down, but it's absolutely an advantage to have him. All his crazy stats and 90 hitting?? Now that I see this McDavid build I'm even more grossed out.

If we can't agree on what P2W is though I suppose we can shift the topic ever so slightly to it being "unbalanced" or "adventageous to have a credit card" so that EA doesn't get upset we use P2W.  Jean and McDavid give an unbalanced advantage.

I don’t agree to disagree. I still see your logic as flawed and incorrect. Let’s use your argument, but let’s say both teams have identical chemistry and execution etc. The game would be a tie theoretically based on your logic. Now give one team an advantage on their player builds through paid prebuilds. Unless you are saying player builds have no effect whatsoever on the outcome, the prebuild team will win and paid to do so. That’s the bottom line.