NHL 20 Feedback Discussion

Computer keeps intercepting seemingly easy cross-passes so I'll maybe crank my pass assist and try some legit saucers.

Last few weeks have been pretty brutal for my team; you can pretty much guarantee at least one computer penalty. We've made a strict rule not to poke so our stick infractions are near 0 but I get tons of lame charging and interference penalties to balance all that out. I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't exactly instil trust in our AI, especially when they are so far into the offensive zone and the humans are already back defending. Could just be another 2-player thing - more chances for things to go wrong with 4 AI players on the ice.

I should be able to find some clips next time I play that show what I'm trying to say. in regards to defensive blunders.

Makes sense; computers don't think like humans and humans just can't naturally play like a computer so mistakes are bound to happen - I just hope to find that right pattern to use so we keep those mistakes to a minimum while still getting our names on the board.

[EASHL] Above all else I love their ability to cover you when you shift position (I'm now a LW playing on the right side of the ice so our new left winger has a better stick handedness for one-timers - please allow us to customize our team btw), BUT, and this is a huge but, it's extremely frustrating when I am a RD. I don't even have to get half the way to the middle of the ice before LD zooms into my side and just plants himself right beside me - He should want to go back to his proper position but I literally have to touch the boards for him to move back; In all that time, the left zone is dangerously open. From what i can tell, it's a problem specific to the LD wanting his handedness closest to the boards (this carries over into HUT where all players refuse to stay in the positions I set (I like inward-facing sticks) - this absolutely kills the mode for me).

Taking EASHL slow is definitely the route to go - it gives you proper defence and allows everyone to catch up to the play in the offensive zone. <- Thrown out the window in 3s of course.

@TTZ_Dipsy 

Pass assist doesn't help manual saucers though. They are always unassisted. I've seen those interceptions as well. Saucer passes will help, but your aim has to be spot on.

If you poke more, you'll learn how to use it better. Not using it at all is taking away an excellent defensive tool. This could be part of why things have been so brutal for you guys. I have way more successful pokes than unsuccessful ones. In the end, I may take a penalty in each game, the number of plays I break up far outweigh any negative effects of taking a penalty. 

Charging and interference are also under your control. It really sounds like you guys just need to play a more disciplined game if you're taking a lot of penalties.

What did you want to customize with your team that you can't already?

My main position is RD, but I can play LD equally as well. I forced myself to get used to the handedness of both sides so I could play most any position. It also greatly helps with HUT and Online Versus. 

That's interesting about the LD. I'll have to watch out for that, but again, video will help so I can see what you're experiencing. He should only be going over there if he has a good reason to. He could play the strong side if there's no one there defending. He shouldn't be there for no reason though.

My HUT players tend to stay in position pretty well because I'm constantly switching players and keeping them positional. You see them get more out of position when you skill zone and control one player that is out of position. Like, planting a forward in front of the net. Then, the rest of your team is going to move around to cover the space you left open. There are times I'll play out of position if the play dictates it, but only if it's not going to mean triple-teaming the carrier and leaving the weak side of the ice totally open. It's all about looking at the options your opponent has and trying to limit them.

Yeah, 3s is a whole different game. You can't play it the same as you play 6s. 3 guys that have great chemistry and know how to back each other up can dominate quite well.

@EA_Aljo 

Assist for general passing and more saucers for cross creasers. I actually looked at my settings and it reverted back to 100% assist so I'll lower it again (never had major issues passing to intended people anyway, just that they get intercepted up close). When in doubt I can do thr classic OP pass from behind the net.

My buddy still tries stick lifts and always gets penalties, I constantly tell him to stop but that's on him. I've done a total of 6 stick lifts - 3 were slashes and the other e were successful but the opponent instantly took the puck back so I'll never do em again. I'm actually really good at poking with my Grinder but I just dislike the sensitivity of pokes - you touch one atom of their skate and you're in the box. Even though they don't make a difference I tend to just hit; all you can really do when thr puck just slips through your legs anyway.

Charging is definitely my fault but 8 times out of ten the game allows me to go from my net to theirs and send some sap to another dimension and go about my shift so I'd advise the team to look into charging.

As for interference, well, I'll accept no more than 33% responsibility for those calls. We enjoy injuring people or flapjacking (hipcheck) them out of nowhere when we are ahead which is blatantly obvious but as I've mentioned before, there are times you cant breathe without getting called for interference.

I can accept getting the call when I take two players out at once, but I've been called after hitting someone less than a second after the puck leaves their stick. It's just inconsistant like boarding.

Computers actually have more penalties than we do if you don't count troll bodychecking. I've been a good boy this year - only had 11 fights; I'd normally have well over 100 by now haha.

Simple things like picking their equipment/appearance/celebrations would be nice. I want to choose what handedness they are, I absolutely need an option to stop them from dumping the puck no matter what, I'd like to pick builds or at least bench them when they aren't playing well, they need more fine-tuned strategies/pathing/placement, and being able to change goalie playstyle would be awesome.

I don't mind that the Dman comes towards me but yeah, he just stays there. We took off close support and strong side slant ages ago. It's been fine as a RW but I can certainly go back on D and check it out.

As I mentioned, I want all my players' sticks facing inward but every single time, without fail, they all tey to switch back to the positions they're used to (in order to get my set up, 9 times out of 10 a player is forced to play thr exact opposite side they like). I accept me going out of position causing a side switch, but I feel like they have no desire to correct themselves when they have the opportunity. It's all good though as I just avoid HUT now that trophies arent associated with getting to div 1.

3s would benefit from some penalty and ragging changes, in its current state they are very easy to manipulate.

@TTZ_Dipsy 

I definitely get the frustration with tripping calls. Probably 85% of my penalties are from tripping, but they're also because sometimes I can lack the necessary discipline. It's definitely better for me than when 19 first launched. That was a learning experience for sure. However, the risk vs. reward is worth it for me. I regularly cause turnovers and takeaways from well-placed pokes. The same goes for stick lifts. I use them quite frequently and slashing calls are rare. Hooking is different as obviously stick lifting from behind has that chance. If you're in front of them roughly around 7:00 - 5:00, chances are excellent you'll get a successful lift. I guess we can agree to disagree on these though. I just think not using them is going to be detrimental as practice makes perfect.

Can you get me some video of the interference calls? There's a brief window, about a second, where you can still hit someone after they pass the puck and not take a penalty. Charging calls are super rare for me. Penalties from hitting in general are, but I also don't hit a lot because I choose to poke, stick lift, use DSS or incidental contact to cause turnovers and break up plays. It kinda sounds like you and your buddies like to "put on the foil" so to speak. Playing more aggressive like that is going to cause more penalties. Boarding I haven't seen any inconsistency with. Smashing guys from behind on the boards is most often going to be a penalty. I definitely recommend boardplaying more often.

Can you show me the AI dumping the puck when they shouldn't be? They'll obviously do it on the PK, but they will also do it if they don't have any other good options and need to get rid of it at the blue line. If they're dumping it in other scenarios, that's something we need to look at.

It would be nice to individually customize your AI players. Hopefully, we'll see that happen someday. On the other hand, though, EASHL is meant to be played with as many humans as possible. The AI players are there to fill in. They aren't really meant to have their own individuality and really be a regular part of the team. We want to encourage more humans playing together, but give you the option to play with computers when you don't have enough.

Ragging has been an issue for years. I don't know if anything is going to change with it, but it would be nice to see. The best you can do is pressure the carrier, but in 3s, that leaves a ton of open space to send the puck deep to a couple streaking teammates for a 2 on 1 or a breakaway. Hopefully, something changes in the future.

@EA_Aljo 

Well, the sensitivity I'm speaking of is more directed towards your stick just brushing against someone. Tripping penalties should be for slew footing, yanking at skates, and getting your stick in-between their legs causing them to fall - These are all strong players that shouldn't be taken down so easily; We all may be playing on ice, but my blade isn't made out of banana peels. I actually have the most takeaways and least giveaways out of the two main players on the team so I understand when it's my fault for bad things happening, it's why we've been trying new things lately.

There just isn't enough of a benefit for me personally to stick lift since more than half the time the player just instantly regains the puck, much like hits (You can smash someone but the momentum just carries you both across the ice - their corpse is in your way and when they get up, boom, they have the puck and have regained all their stamina while getting up).
DSS is detrimental to the play since it's all backwards and forces the Dman to keep making a play, not the attacker; the offensive player can just skate directly into it knowing they'll get tripped and you bet they'll exploit it as much as they can. Also, you're way too open for them to pass through your player while initiating this - a good sniper will know to pass directly to the middle as soon as they cross the blue line to open a man for one of those snipes. This could all be different in your 6v6 matches, but 2v2's and 2v2+'s are a total cluster. Most of the people on the other forums keep saying the game has no defensive tools but I think it does, just not on par with offensive ones.

Eh the tinfoil hats only come out when the other goalie makes constant saves of the century and ours is majorly inbred but that is a whole other discussion I'm sure both of us don't want to tread. Trolling people with hits give obvious penalties that we don't care about (normally we use them for bathroom breaks while ahead by 3 or 4 goals). Boarding calls are consistent and you knowingly take that chance every time you make that play but the team will definitely need to look into charging calls. Just because it's a big hit doesn't mean I should be punished and the same goes for clean hits that initiate a fight. In the minors, I think you're allowed a 1 stride distance left and right, NHL up to 4? I could be wrong, but in any case, you can get charging anywhere from 3 to 15 strides and it's all random. Again, this hurts defensive play when you anticipate a pass and go for the hit accordingly. I should have to initiate a glide every 5 seconds in fear that, when something happens out of nowhere and I need to hit, I get a penalty.

Oh, nono, I have 0 qualms about interference penalties when hitting someone, like, 2 seconds after getting rid of the puck; My issue is with things like bumping off a player and the hit just follows through to another, simple and dainty little shoves/taps that get you 2 minutes, the fact a puck is right under someone and you get a penalty for hitting them out of the way, the other player deliberately goading you into a hit only to not touch the puck (this is not a penalty in the NHL since the other player has intent), and last but certainly not least goaltender interference when the goalie has already recovered from whatever it was that disrupted them. Simple tap and retreats from even the computers are enough to get goals disallowed and you can even be pushed into the goalie by the defensive team and still get it disallowed.

What I mean is, I don't want them dumping it literally at all when they aren't on PK since the other team will get it 99% of the time. It just doesn't work, even when you know they're gonna dump it you most likely won't get it. Dumping is a viable tactic in real hockey but certainly not in this video game in matches with lower player counts (ie, 2v2s where the computer D will always beat you to puck races). No need scouring for videos since they're basically just normal plays. Just cross the line, that's all my team asks. A guy can be barrelling down towards them for a hit but all they need to do is just pass to the middle or to the boards - one of his human masters will take care of the rest. At the end of the day, the AI are disposable tools for humans to use. the ai can't think like a human which is a shame; there are ALWAYS options.

We're fully aware the team cares more about HUT than EASHL, it would just be nice to customize the players more on your custom team that you play and win for every single year. I'd see changing AI players differently if some work was put in and their names would constantly change, but my boy Kong is a beast and Andrews will go down in our club's record books as the god and hero he is. (basically, there are actually people who care about their teams).
2v2 EASHL games are massively more popular than the team thinks; Honestly, I find it weird many don't see it. It's very hard for 6 friends who like hockey (and each other), have similar connections, enjoy EASHL, AND have the time to sit down for matches at the exact same time to play together. 

It's simple - 3's specifically needs a shot clock. It may not be realistic, but neither is the mode.
Penalties should either add players to the other team or reduce players on your team for, say, a minute. I would much rather be the only guy on the ice during a 1on3 or even 5 if it gets that bad than allow those ridiculous penalty shots on the extremely easy difficulty goalies. You can exploit the computer and eventually get penalties from them too which is asanine; even if you try to rush to keep the computer at bay, you're just allowing them to pass for an advantage.

@TTZ_Dipsy 

You're talking about incidental contact. Yes, it's pretty sensitive, but it is kind of realistic. There should be a response when a stick comes in contact with the puck, another player's stick, their skates, etc. Obviously the stick clips through players and objects as needed due to not being able to control your stick like a real-world player. However, I get what you're saying when it comes to the puck coming loose easy. That's something the studio is always trying to improve.

I love the DSS. It lets me guide the carrier to where I want them or sweep the puck away. Your chances of taking a penalty are a lot less. As the defender, you need to be conscious of the carrier and not let them get so close that your stick passes through their leg. You have to go from inside-out to cause a penalty with it. If you go from outside-in, it's not going to cause a trip. A defender that's good with DSS can very well interrupt a play and force the carrier to make a bad pass, shot or change up what they're doing in general. It takes away their options. I'm not seeing people exploit DSS by just skating into the defender using it. Maybe because I pull my stick back before tripping them. I'll keep an eye out for it.

As far as a good player recognizing a defender's DSS and passing around it goes, that's part of hockey strategy. The defender needs to recognize the options the carrier has and do their best to take them away.

Hits along the boards often end up with the puck being tough to get since their body is in the way. You just can't skate around them as easy to get the puck. In open ice though, that's different. The puck is loose and can be picked up easily by either team. Regardless, it breaks up the play and gives you a chance at a turnover.

The only time fights are initiated is if you injure a player. The idea behind it is that your teammate is standing up for you. That's pretty realistic. It's not exactly unusual that a guy goes after the player that laid out his teammate, who is now crumpled up on the ice. So, while the hit may be clean, you just injured his teammate and he's not happy about that. Again, it's a risk you take if you're playing really aggressively.

I know what you mean about anticipating a pass and taking out the receiver as soon as they get it. If the timing is right, and you're not charging, it's a good play to make. You also have the option of stick lifts, but we'll agree to disagree on those.

Hmm. I'll need to see where the small taps are generating penalties. That really shouldn't happen. I have seen some rare instances where an animation didn't play out, but the hit warranted the penalty. When the puck is under someone, you should be able to hit them out of the way. That's a battle for the puck and a penalty shouldn't be called unless it's a charge. Goalie interference is obviously very sensitive though. That's something the dev team wants to improve on. It's a lot easier said than done though.

Dumping works well when everyone is on board with it. I always call out my dumps and where it's going so a teammate can race to it. That or I ring it around the boards with a slap pass. You also can just sauce it into the middle of the ice. It obviously all depends on the situation and placement of everyone. Dumps can be great, but I think a lack of communication makes them not work as well as they can. When it comes to computers though, they should only be doing it when it's the best option available. So, if they have clean zone entry, they'll carry it. If there's a teammate that's a good option for a pass, they'll usually pass. The biggest problem I see is human-controlled players not getting into good position for passes so the computer doesn't seem as a good option. In the end, they are AI and dependant on the variables they determine. They aren't perfect and that's another area that is always trying to be improved.

We don't care more about HUT than EASHL. If that were true, you'd see HUT get more attention. Which it doesn't. Yes, there are special packs and players that earn special items, but that's all content that is already in the game. There isn't a ton of extra development resources working on those every day. EASHL also has it's own time-limited content you can earn. Tons of stuff has been added to EASHL over the last few years. It's a mode we're very dedicated to. Personally, it's my favorite and I know I'm not the only one here. HUT is obviously very popular, but EASHL has a hardcore fanbase that we continue to support.

We know 2v2 matches are popular. That's also part of why you can have AI players fill in those spots. That way you can still play and don't have to rely on drop-ins or waiting for all your buddies to come on line.

A shot clock is an interesting idea. Not sure it would work in 3v3 EASHL as that wouldn't really be very authentic. Plus, it could cause trolling. What if someone just lets the clock run down and takes a penalty or it causes a faceoff? That could potentially get really out of hand. Still though, it's an interesting idea.

@EA_Aljo 

I actually like how the new poke system works as it definitely rewards skill more than previous years; In my opinion, the sensitivity only needs to be toned down by as little as 10%.

There must be more of a player respect thing going on in 6's because the players I normally go up against will just rush straight into the stick; you can pull your stick back in time but then your personal space has been invaded and you have no choice but to go for that last-ditch hit or collapse to the net which allows the hash marks to be occupied. It works excellently on ai opponents though. It's like anything else that requires more skill to pull off well but I just feel you're at more of a disadvantage in a 1 on 1 setting than an attacker - minutely tweaking sensitivity on trips would get more people using it (at times it feels like I can go 30 games without seeing it, maybe because games are faster with few players).

Pushing off the boards, hitting the puck away as they are writhing in pain, and the ability to extend your stick to pick up the puck you earned would help tremendously in these situations. Skating in place over someone is more jarring than anything.

We're given the ability to manually initiate fights at any time on the ice and yes I see people rushing in with bare fists immediately in the real NHL but that is total garbage that a player has to defend a clean hit, at least at that exact moment. You could literally break someone in two and it shouldn't be a penalty if it was a clean hit. I can spam L1 right away, yes, but to say I'm accepting a fight when I just want to hit isn't right. An aggressor/momentum shift mechanic after the fact where you're a marked man for bruising the other team and having faceoff fights, among other things, would be both realistic and fun. Even if you were to lose that fight, at least you'd get a bit of momentum/energy back for your troubles. A death battle where everyone has torches isn't needed but to have your teammates cheering you on would be entertaining.

I'm one of "those" people who really enjoyed the custom builds back in the day and would totally love to get them back. Adding paid features like with HUT would bring more focus to EASHL and I personally think a combination of the two modes would be absolutely amazing. I can't co-own a HUT team with my friend but to create a unique team in EASHL with certain HUT-esque upgrades would be a real gamechanger. The team added a ton of cosmetics which is nice but that also brings the problem of waiting longer to earn things you truly desire.

Ah so if you ask literally anybody who doesn't rag the puck, they'll say they'd love anything that reduces this dirty tactic. Like, actually please do a public poll on Twitter or reddit or something - it'd be crazy.
The problem is already bad enough in a 2v2 setting, but playing against 3 people who choose to rag is the worst thing you can imagine. By forcing a team to at least get the puck over the red line you allow both teams a chance. If they take a penalty, well then you get a penalty shot which is pretty much a guaranteed goal. If they flip the puck out of play you get a 50/50 faceoff which is infinitely better than nothing. Higher skilled teams will still do better on faceoffs but that's just the game.

@TTZ_Dipsy 

If your personal space is invaded, the defender has an advantage as they can just let go of DSS and use incidental contact to knock the puck loose. Getting a body in the way of the carrier really limits their options. In the end, 1 on 1 situations have a lot to do with anticipating what your opponent is going to do. When I'm dealing with this, as a defender, I usually stay on their forehand since they are often coming in for that short or far side snipe.

I get what you're saying about players on the ice. I hope something changes in the future with this. It's a tough one for sure since you can't really dig the puck out from under someone on the boards or quickly jump around them.

Thanks for the feedback on fights. It's definitely appreciated. Obviously fighting hasn't changed in a long time. In the grand scheme of things, there's a short amount of time to work on the game each year. Fighting takes a back seat to bigger issues that need to be addressed first.

Personally, I'm on the fence about the old system. It was nice, but also lead to people focusing more on numbers and maxing out just the most important abilities instead of a build that accents the way you play. Namely, speed and shot. Plus, it didn't create as even a playing field. The way it is now, there's a better level of competition since you don't have hardcore, L3 players going up against the casual guys who are at a big disadvantage because they don't have as much time to play. I'm preferring the new system, but it would be good to get more customization back. I like the traits and specializations as they at least give you more options to tailor a build to meet your playstyle. 

I'm well aware of the feedback on ragging. I just had to deal with one of them when I played on a break here. It's frustrating for sure. I'd like to see them lose the puck, blow a tire or get so exhausted they're easily overcome and cause a turnover. The best I can tell you is that it's something the dev team is very well aware of.

Incidental defending works wonders when the attacker is on a slower, more lateral movement pattern and is my go-to after reducing my poke checks. Even when you know how they're going to shoot (left side looking for a cheesy rebound goal or going down the right side of goalie for a diagonal cross) it still feels like the puck goes right through my skates, even when I'm staring directly at it.

First-person fights were glorious - full tilt right and spam left punch, and when they finally clue in (if they're not already dead) full tilt left and spam right punch. ahh good ol days of over 300+ fights... Anyway, I think the old system allowed you to better customize your character so you could really play exactly how you wanted. With traits and stuff, you are kind of shoehorned into a specific style of play and to be honest, the pros/* of each trait don't make a whole lot of sense.

Beast Mode - Higher puck control but less accuracy on wristers.
Heavy Hitter - Body checks but you lose on accuracy again; no added strength or
Hockey IQ - You gain awareness but lose strength?
Human Shield - Defensive awareness doesn't raise and you lose hand eye
Defensive Minded - I don't get why slap power would be negatively affected.
iron man - gives up on discipline?
Core Balance - why would have a great core make your wrist shots worse?
Cardio Master - I don't understand why this would reduce puck control and defensive awareness

People complained that there were meta builds but it's pretty much the same now - Snipers are pretty much the only people who can go very fast and Grinder is the obvious choice for anyone who wants a medium-large build. Those old builds were balanced when you consider the better stats cost more and everyone could create those builds to even the playing field.

3's will mainly consist of Snipers (and danglers when you reach higher CR's) and 6's is pretty much all heights of sniper with the odd grinder or two-way forward (I've literally never seen a single 2way D), added in. DD is dangerous with few human players on your team since you need to rely on them to score, grinder outclasses the enforcer, enforcer D is just not good, and oh how the team nerfed my precious offensive D to the ground. Grinder beats out the puck-moving D in my mind because of the extra balance and strength.

While we're talking, can you please explain just what offensive Awareness actually does for a human player? I asked this in the main forums and nobody there knows either. Like, you already see the entire play with a top-down camera, and there are specific stats for shooting and passing already so it doesn't make much sense. I can only assume it helps you receive passes and rebounds easier - I know it says you have a knack for finding the back of the net but that's what shooting stats are for.

Blasting a puck ragger and scoring is one of life's greatest pleasures

@TTZ_Dipsy 

@TTZ_Dipsy 

Traits need to add something while taking away another. It's part of the balance otherwise you'd be able to stack traits and have unintended bonuses. Some of the ones you mentioned make sense as well.

Beast Mode - focus is on control, not shot accuracy

Hockey IQ - you're more aware defensively and using your intelligence of the game to defend better rather than physical strength

Human Shield - your focus is on defending, not using hand/eye which is more for deflections and batting pucks down

Defensive minded - slap power is lowered because that's a more offensive trait. Even though it's used by defenders to clear the puck from their own zone

For the others, I can see what you mean, but it's still also part of the balancing. Otherwise, you'd get too many bonuses and are less focused on what matches your style of play and go more for boosting the most beneficial traits which most see as speed and accuracy. The current system promotes a more even and competitive playing field. It's always possible this could change. We'll have to see what the future holds.

I get how important speed is. This is hockey, but faster speed also promotes less teamplay as people are more likely to be a one-man show than use their teammates. There are frequent complaints about how the game doesn't play like real hockey. It most definitely does, but many choose not to play it that way. I see teams all the time that don't pass back to wide open defenders and instead for cross-crease passes through traffic that just get turned over. Your speed doesn't matter in those situations. It's more about setting up good scoring chances by pulling your opponents out of position with working the puck around and good passing. Instead, you see more focused on their own skills and trying to be the hero dangling through traffic. In most cases, they just cause a turnover. The system we have now helps promote more team play. Which is a core aspect of hockey.

I play only 2 way D. I like to have a mix of offense and defense so I have more utility. It's how I like to play so that build matches my playstyle better and how the rest of my team plays as they are looking to use me for some added offense when needed. I've also played with a lot of 2 way defenders in LG. Which is a league more often focused on team play than individual efforts.

Offensive awareness is your overall offense. Tips/deflections and accuracy are the main ones. While you have a top-down view, that doesn't mean you don't have to aim your passes. Your passes, as well as shots, have more margin for error so your aim can be more off and still create a shot on target when without it you'd go wide or hit the post. 

Yes. Making them pay for ragging is incredibly satisfying 🙂