Re: Face offs broken

Bro come on I know how to take face offs I’ve been playing this game for 15 years. I’ll find a way to get the video uploaded somehow. 

You can see in the video I establish backhand grip, I have the exact same posture as my opponent and I had good timing but lose the face off just because the game decided it wanted me to lose it. And this honestly happens 40% of every face off I’ve tried lately. I’ve been doing them exactly the same for 15 years there’s no small movement that I’ve tried doing different or anything. Just turn on control feedback and it’ll show you. 

@Apoc_Chaos98 

You lost because you're both using the same grip and he had better timing. You should have gone used the tie-up since that beats the backhand. The message you get is probably an issue though. I'll pass that on to the studio. Does this happen every time? I don't use the on-ice trainer, but I'll try turning it on for a bit to see if it gives me any odd messages.

@Apoc_Chaos98 

Faceoffs haven't been the same for 15 years. They changed a while back, but it hasn't been that long. It would be good to get refreshed on the counters. There's a number of tutorials out there that will help.

The last time the face off system actually changed was whenever the skill stick was brought in like NHL 09 or 10 but it’s been pretty much the exact same for 10 years. It’s outdated, doesn’t take skill or knowledge it’s just Rock Paper Scissors. It’s only easy to Win if the other person does the exact same face off everytime but at the same time it feels harder to win when you’re switching up your approach, which is definitely not how it should be. 

It happens fairly often yes. But it only happens when I try to win a draw back, never on a tie up or stick lift. That’s why I don’t think it’s just a visual bug. 

@Apoc_Chaos98 

It is basically a rock paper scissors system, but it also takes some skill to recognize which grip they're using as well as paying attention to what moves they've been doing. Some guys always push in your zone for example. Some guys always sick lift on faceoffs at center ice. Some guys win straight back when they have their top line out so they can rip a shot with a good D man. The game isn't deciding when you're going to win based purely on randomness. It's based on timing and countering. If you lose the majority of your faceoffs, you're probably just guessing and not considering their grip as well as how they've been playing.

@Apoc_Chaos98 

Thanks for that. I'll pass on the details.

I don’t even lose the majority of my face offs I’m usually like 60-65% on them. That’s why I say they need a change and I know the system, because like I’ve said I’ve been using it for 10 years. But they’re nothing like real hockey face offs. There should be more scrambles where either team could win, the wingers shouldn’t just sit still on tie ups until the team that’s supposed to win gets the puck. The wingers should realize their centre got tied up and get into defensive positions or if the winger isn’t paying attention and the pucks still lose why can’t the other wingers grab it? 

@Apoc_Chaos98 

Wingers sitting still on faceoffs is one we're aware of. I see it happen with defensive zone faceoffs when you tie-up. It's frustrating for sure.

Winning 60 - 65% of your faceoffs isn't bad. It sounds like you know what you're doing.

It would be great to see faceoffs get revamped. I agree with you. However, there have been bigger issues that needed to be handled first. Hopefully, we'll see faceoffs get some attention in the future.

You’re not wrong there, there are bigger problems than face offs but I honestly feel most of the problems this game has comes back around to the fact that it doesn’t change year to year and some of the modes get ignored for 5+ years only getting quality of life downgrades there lol. But I guess that’s a problem for another time. 

@Apoc_Chaos98 

The game definitely changes year to year. Yes, there are areas that haven't had attention in a while as the focus has been on listening to the community's requests for improved gameplay. There have been huge changes in that area over the last couple of years. Big changes were made to skating, shooting and pick ups. These are some of the most important aspects of hockey so they are going to some of the biggest areas of focus.

As we keep moving forward, you'll probably see other areas get some work as well. Franchise Mode has had big updates. Obviously EASHL and HUT have received attention also. I'd love to see Be A Pro get some updating as it's one that hasn't changed in a while now. The dev team is always trying to incorporate player feedback as well as continually trying to innovate and bring something new to the table. In the end, it's hockey and needs to be a fun hockey game to play. That's the overall objective.

So it’s been months and this is still a very common occurrence happening at least 10 times a game. Very very very very very frustrating I’d love to see some sort of action instead of all these HUT changes. 

@Apoc_Chaos98 

There haven't been gameplay changes to HUT. They still have the same faceoff issue. HUT content is not made by the people that work on gameplay issues. So, one doesn't affect the other. As far as this particular issue goes, I don't have any news on if/when this will be addressed.

Just so you’re aware, this isn’t just a visual bug. It’s an actual bug that’s causing me to lose face offs because I went into a game against rookie ai and still lost 7 faceoffs against them, when it’s impossible to lose faceoffs against rookie if you actually do it. This game and it’s publisher have gone way downhill I’m fed up with being treated to games that are unplayable because of small bugs or animation errors or programming errors. You make at least $80 off all of us every year, not to mention the people who buy packs (if that’s even still a thing with how bad the packs are now) the least you can do is out that money towards developing a game that plays like a real hockey game and not one that favours the people who know nothing about hockey. Thank you. And maybe you’ll get my business back in the future once you show you care. 

@Apoc_Chaos98 

I haven't had any issues winning faceoffs against rookie AI. Can you get me some video of this? The issue I was talking about was where you use the tie-up and the wingers don't move in to pick up the puck. It seems to only happen in your zone and not when you're in your opponent's zone.

We have been listening to the community and making changes because of that feedback. We most definitely care. Otherwise, you wouldn't see so much work go into gameplay. That's our biggest priority. We need a game that is fun to play. There were many complaints about the old TPS system so that was replaced with RPM. Community feedback played a very big role in this. The idea we don't care couldn't be further from the truth.

I mean, the gameplay feels like it goes back and forth year after year, the game is always $80 even though for one it doesn’t have enough features to be that much, and two there really isn’t that many new features year after year to justify paying $80. It’s pretty much roster updates with changes to gameplay and one game mode that got either a minor tweak or an overhaul that no one feels good about. The little bugs don’t get fixed and they build up year after year, like last years stupid feature of the ai skating into the boards stumbling and losing the puck behind his own net, on superstar.... I brought that to multiple EA employees as early as December of last year and they said it’d be looked at, well it’s still a problem this year. Same with the AI awareness it’s awful. 

And not to mention the way your social media “help” accounts help, I’m sorry but you’re not going to convince me you guys care about us with all this stuff happening year after year. 

@Apoc_Chaos98 

I get that the features that have been added don't appeal to you. To many though, they have been welcomed. Especially Threes. That's been a very popular mode. Does it appeal to everyone? No, it doesn't. Just like not everyone plays HUT and not everyone plays EASHL. Some guys only play Franchise Mode, others love Be A Pro. If there's not enough value in the game for you personally, that's understandable. I don't find $80 worth of value in every game I play either. NHL is one that I play a ton of so in the end, it's got a very high value to me. I play thousands of games each year. That's hundreds of hours of entertainment so the value is pretty high. Entertainment is subjective though. If the game isn't fun for you, it's not going to have the same value.

There is a lot more than roster updates though. There are updates to numerous areas of the game. What minor tweaks or overhaul do 100% of the community not like? I get that it's easy to make the assumption everyone feels the same as you, but that's not the case. We have a very diverse player base.

There will always be bugs. Many get fixed, some don't. That's the nature of software development. We have a finite amount of time and resources so we have to be careful about what gets addressed. Typically they are the issues that affect the community the most.

Which mode are you still seeing AI lose the puck behind their own net on superstar? It's rare I play a mode where that's happening. I spend most of my time in EASHL and HUT. This would be more of an issue with offline modes. Video of it would help. I could pass that on to the dev team and see if it's something they're aware of. The same goes for AI awareness. Examples of this would be beneficial. 

I wish I could somehow get the point across that we care. If we didn't, I wouldn't be here spending a lot of time talking to the community with the objective to help make a better game for all. I'm here because I love this game and its community. You wouldn't see our own developers talking to people in the forums. We wouldn't be releasing updates that are a direct reflection of community feedback. 

@EA_Aljo 

Threes or Threes Eliminator? They're essentially just 3on3 Arcade that was re-added with fireballs.

I have to disagree with @Apoc_Chaos98 and say there are too many modes and that's what is spreading your resources (though nobody can deny HUT clearly gets the majority of the attention). 

Does the team have any data on play time and retention on each mode? I know that if there weren't trophy requirements I would drop all the offline modes faster than it takes Brad Marchand to start being a dirty rat. 

There are almost never any patches, let alone monthly fixes to various problems because it seems like, to the community, you already have our money and only want to focus on the next title. Aljo, buddy, it honestly feels like you're the only one who cares at times; community rarely gets updates on future patches, videos explaining how people can alleviate their frustrations, people like Ben (NHL_Dev) are openly hostile in the regular forums, and we see the exact same sorts of bugs each and every year. Snoop Dogg made me chuckle the first time but losing your playoff beard in the second round and sending people out of bounds forever in ONES yet again rubs people the wrong way.

Yes, lots of problems are low priority, but all the small things are beginning to add up - if you did a poll of whether you should create NHL 21 or skip a year to fix everything I'm sure you'd be surprised with the results.

Speaking of polls, one thing you could do to really show the team is listening is to simply start posting more polls on the main social media platforums and start getting answers for what really needs fixing and show us the process. Less vagueness and more "X or Y" options. 

From my testing experience in Battlefield, tons of people don't know how lengthy the certification process is and how much of an impact on the game even reverting changes can do - a simple Q&A/ workshop will go a long way imo. 

@TTZ_Dipsy 

I can't agree that HUT gets the majority of the attention. Yes, it has content released daily, but that's also content that's basically already created, but ratings are modified. When it comes to the individual modes and the work they receive each year, some get more than others, but HUT hasn't been the main focus. EASHL (WOC) has had a huge amount of work done to it. The same goes for Franchise Mode. HUT basically got Rivals and Squad Battles.

I believe there's data that shows which modes are played the most and for how long, but it's not something I'm involved in so I couldn't give out any real information on them.

There are a few patches each year. Due to only being a few, we want to make each one handles as many issues as possible. It takes a lot of time to get them tested and fixed. Sometimes patches also come with new content. Patches take a lot of work. It means using people that could be working on the next game to fix the current one. Of course, we want to address issues with the current game and not only focus on the future but at some point, focus needs to shift to what's coming in several months. Also, some issues just need more time so they better fit into a future game than the current one. 

I don't know that we'd be surprised by the results of a poll like that. We've seen people ask for a long time to release every couple of years. I know it's something we're very aware of. As far as it actually happening, I'm sure there are pros and cons to it, but keep in mind, this is software. There are always going to be bugs. Extending the dev cycle isn't necessarily going to stop that from happening. Some things just don't come to light until you get the game out in the wild and everyone's playing it. Look at games that spend several years in development. They still get released with bugs. That's the nature of software development though. It's on us to resolve those issues as best we can. The shortened time between releases makes that more of a challenge, but on the other hand, each year there are gameplay changes that we get to see the results of quickly instead of waiting a couple of years, then working to refine those for release a couple of years after. So, it's debatable whether or not extending the development cycle would really be good for the game and community.

You're right there's a lot the community doesn't know when it comes to updates. The certification process is a part of that, but the actual work that goes into fixing issues is far from as easy as people think it is. An FAQ or Q&A where we educate everyone on this process might be nice to have.