Re: NHL 20 Feedback Discussion

@EA_Aljo 

I actually like how the new poke system works as it definitely rewards skill more than previous years; In my opinion, the sensitivity only needs to be toned down by as little as 10%.

There must be more of a player respect thing going on in 6's because the players I normally go up against will just rush straight into the stick; you can pull your stick back in time but then your personal space has been invaded and you have no choice but to go for that last-ditch hit or collapse to the net which allows the hash marks to be occupied. It works excellently on ai opponents though. It's like anything else that requires more skill to pull off well but I just feel you're at more of a disadvantage in a 1 on 1 setting than an attacker - minutely tweaking sensitivity on trips would get more people using it (at times it feels like I can go 30 games without seeing it, maybe because games are faster with few players).

Pushing off the boards, hitting the puck away as they are writhing in pain, and the ability to extend your stick to pick up the puck you earned would help tremendously in these situations. Skating in place over someone is more jarring than anything.

We're given the ability to manually initiate fights at any time on the ice and yes I see people rushing in with bare fists immediately in the real NHL but that is total garbage that a player has to defend a clean hit, at least at that exact moment. You could literally break someone in two and it shouldn't be a penalty if it was a clean hit. I can spam L1 right away, yes, but to say I'm accepting a fight when I just want to hit isn't right. An aggressor/momentum shift mechanic after the fact where you're a marked man for bruising the other team and having faceoff fights, among other things, would be both realistic and fun. Even if you were to lose that fight, at least you'd get a bit of momentum/energy back for your troubles. A death battle where everyone has torches isn't needed but to have your teammates cheering you on would be entertaining.

I'm one of "those" people who really enjoyed the custom builds back in the day and would totally love to get them back. Adding paid features like with HUT would bring more focus to EASHL and I personally think a combination of the two modes would be absolutely amazing. I can't co-own a HUT team with my friend but to create a unique team in EASHL with certain HUT-esque upgrades would be a real gamechanger. The team added a ton of cosmetics which is nice but that also brings the problem of waiting longer to earn things you truly desire.

Ah so if you ask literally anybody who doesn't rag the puck, they'll say they'd love anything that reduces this dirty tactic. Like, actually please do a public poll on Twitter or reddit or something - it'd be crazy.
The problem is already bad enough in a 2v2 setting, but playing against 3 people who choose to rag is the worst thing you can imagine. By forcing a team to at least get the puck over the red line you allow both teams a chance. If they take a penalty, well then you get a penalty shot which is pretty much a guaranteed goal. If they flip the puck out of play you get a 50/50 faceoff which is infinitely better than nothing. Higher skilled teams will still do better on faceoffs but that's just the game.

@TTZ_Dipsy 

If your personal space is invaded, the defender has an advantage as they can just let go of DSS and use incidental contact to knock the puck loose. Getting a body in the way of the carrier really limits their options. In the end, 1 on 1 situations have a lot to do with anticipating what your opponent is going to do. When I'm dealing with this, as a defender, I usually stay on their forehand since they are often coming in for that short or far side snipe.

I get what you're saying about players on the ice. I hope something changes in the future with this. It's a tough one for sure since you can't really dig the puck out from under someone on the boards or quickly jump around them.

Thanks for the feedback on fights. It's definitely appreciated. Obviously fighting hasn't changed in a long time. In the grand scheme of things, there's a short amount of time to work on the game each year. Fighting takes a back seat to bigger issues that need to be addressed first.

Personally, I'm on the fence about the old system. It was nice, but also lead to people focusing more on numbers and maxing out just the most important abilities instead of a build that accents the way you play. Namely, speed and shot. Plus, it didn't create as even a playing field. The way it is now, there's a better level of competition since you don't have hardcore, L3 players going up against the casual guys who are at a big disadvantage because they don't have as much time to play. I'm preferring the new system, but it would be good to get more customization back. I like the traits and specializations as they at least give you more options to tailor a build to meet your playstyle. 

I'm well aware of the feedback on ragging. I just had to deal with one of them when I played on a break here. It's frustrating for sure. I'd like to see them lose the puck, blow a tire or get so exhausted they're easily overcome and cause a turnover. The best I can tell you is that it's something the dev team is very well aware of.

Incidental defending works wonders when the attacker is on a slower, more lateral movement pattern and is my go-to after reducing my poke checks. Even when you know how they're going to shoot (left side looking for a cheesy rebound goal or going down the right side of goalie for a diagonal cross) it still feels like the puck goes right through my skates, even when I'm staring directly at it.

First-person fights were glorious - full tilt right and spam left punch, and when they finally clue in (if they're not already dead) full tilt left and spam right punch. ahh good ol days of over 300+ fights... Anyway, I think the old system allowed you to better customize your character so you could really play exactly how you wanted. With traits and stuff, you are kind of shoehorned into a specific style of play and to be honest, the pros/* of each trait don't make a whole lot of sense.

Beast Mode - Higher puck control but less accuracy on wristers.
Heavy Hitter - Body checks but you lose on accuracy again; no added strength or
Hockey IQ - You gain awareness but lose strength?
Human Shield - Defensive awareness doesn't raise and you lose hand eye
Defensive Minded - I don't get why slap power would be negatively affected.
iron man - gives up on discipline?
Core Balance - why would have a great core make your wrist shots worse?
Cardio Master - I don't understand why this would reduce puck control and defensive awareness

People complained that there were meta builds but it's pretty much the same now - Snipers are pretty much the only people who can go very fast and Grinder is the obvious choice for anyone who wants a medium-large build. Those old builds were balanced when you consider the better stats cost more and everyone could create those builds to even the playing field.

3's will mainly consist of Snipers (and danglers when you reach higher CR's) and 6's is pretty much all heights of sniper with the odd grinder or two-way forward (I've literally never seen a single 2way D), added in. DD is dangerous with few human players on your team since you need to rely on them to score, grinder outclasses the enforcer, enforcer D is just not good, and oh how the team nerfed my precious offensive D to the ground. Grinder beats out the puck-moving D in my mind because of the extra balance and strength.

While we're talking, can you please explain just what offensive Awareness actually does for a human player? I asked this in the main forums and nobody there knows either. Like, you already see the entire play with a top-down camera, and there are specific stats for shooting and passing already so it doesn't make much sense. I can only assume it helps you receive passes and rebounds easier - I know it says you have a knack for finding the back of the net but that's what shooting stats are for.

Blasting a puck ragger and scoring is one of life's greatest pleasures

@TTZ_Dipsy 

@TTZ_Dipsy 

Traits need to add something while taking away another. It's part of the balance otherwise you'd be able to stack traits and have unintended bonuses. Some of the ones you mentioned make sense as well.

Beast Mode - focus is on control, not shot accuracy

Hockey IQ - you're more aware defensively and using your intelligence of the game to defend better rather than physical strength

Human Shield - your focus is on defending, not using hand/eye which is more for deflections and batting pucks down

Defensive minded - slap power is lowered because that's a more offensive trait. Even though it's used by defenders to clear the puck from their own zone

For the others, I can see what you mean, but it's still also part of the balancing. Otherwise, you'd get too many bonuses and are less focused on what matches your style of play and go more for boosting the most beneficial traits which most see as speed and accuracy. The current system promotes a more even and competitive playing field. It's always possible this could change. We'll have to see what the future holds.

I get how important speed is. This is hockey, but faster speed also promotes less teamplay as people are more likely to be a one-man show than use their teammates. There are frequent complaints about how the game doesn't play like real hockey. It most definitely does, but many choose not to play it that way. I see teams all the time that don't pass back to wide open defenders and instead for cross-crease passes through traffic that just get turned over. Your speed doesn't matter in those situations. It's more about setting up good scoring chances by pulling your opponents out of position with working the puck around and good passing. Instead, you see more focused on their own skills and trying to be the hero dangling through traffic. In most cases, they just cause a turnover. The system we have now helps promote more team play. Which is a core aspect of hockey.

I play only 2 way D. I like to have a mix of offense and defense so I have more utility. It's how I like to play so that build matches my playstyle better and how the rest of my team plays as they are looking to use me for some added offense when needed. I've also played with a lot of 2 way defenders in LG. Which is a league more often focused on team play than individual efforts.

Offensive awareness is your overall offense. Tips/deflections and accuracy are the main ones. While you have a top-down view, that doesn't mean you don't have to aim your passes. Your passes, as well as shots, have more margin for error so your aim can be more off and still create a shot on target when without it you'd go wide or hit the post. 

Yes. Making them pay for ragging is incredibly satisfying 🙂

Beast mode - Puck control directly affects shot accuracy so by reducing the accuracy there is no real point in having Beast Mode in the first place; I might as well just remove it and fire snipes from the hash marks like everyone else. 

Hockey IQ - There's not really much else to take away, I get it, but it just seems weird to me since strength has nothing to do with one's ability to see/make plays

Human Shield - Hand-eye is what allows a player to catch/block a shot/pass and should be considered when batting pucks away with your stick. It should hold just as much value on D as it does it the offensive zone. 

Defensive Minded - See, I would understand seeing the accuracy of both slap and wrister be lowered to compensate; shot blocking should be increased.


To me, it just feels like you're forcing us to play a single role; you wanted to remove meta builds through traits but made them worse with all the 5'7 169lbs snipers with quick step skating around (this only gets worse in 3's mode with penalty shot exploiting and ragging). What the team has done is make everybody the same with no wiggle room for creativity; It definitely wasn't perfect and a lot of players hated it, but you can't deny the old system at least gave you more options.

The team needs to make a decision on whether they want to sell a hockey simulator or a hockey (arcade) video game - it's the tiptoeing on the fence that is making everyone so mad. From what I can see in your posts, you're definitely someone who "plays hockey" - while my buddy definitely "plays the game". I'm kind of in the middle so it's easy to see each side's argument. A team setting up plays is a force to be reckoned with but trust me, the game does allow players to be a one-man wrecking crew when they want. There can be a ton of turnovers, but they only need to get that shot the one time because they know it'll work - this makes it extremely frustrating for people who want to play regular hockey. 

OK cool, thanks. It seems pretty obvious at first but it kind of gets confusing when there are so many other stats to consider. I'm hoping future titles will overhaul the stats screens for better comparisons as well as informing you how hidden bonuses/debuffs work

You're welcome to try sniping from the hash marks, but good defenders know how to stop those. When you see someone doing the same thing over and over again, especially that shot, you set yourself up to stop it and it's rare they will get that shot off.

I get your point with the traits. Hopefully, we'll see them updated in the future. However, keep in mind, this is a video game. There's balancing that needs to happen that might not perfectly reflect real-world scenarios.

It's fun playing guys that choose the smaller builds. They are very easy to hit so you wait for them to stop dancing and step up. Some guys definitely have that advanced skill where they can weave through traffic. They should also be rewarded for that so I don't see a problem with it. My club played 3 games last night against teams with tiny forwards. We won each game as they didn't get a lot of time to do anything with the puck. Knocking them off the puck was quite easy so we generated a lot of turnovers. My point is, no matter the build you choose, it's going to have its pros and cons. Your own skill and chemistry with your team comes in to play. 3v3 games are of course very different. You can probably get away with smaller builds easier since you have more room, but using your teammates is still pretty crucial to success. What a lot of people don't seem to consider with traits is their own play style. I wouldn't go with an offensive D man because that doesn't fit me. Those traits are a wasted bonus if I'm not shooting or getting involved in the offense. When I play as a center, I use a 2 way forward build because I drop back to defend a lot so I use traits that help round out my more supporting role. Choose what you want, but the intent is to give you options to enhance how you play.

We have a very diverse audience. We can't just choose to go full sim or full arcade. We have a bit of a hybrid, but there are options for both. Hardcore sim guys can play offline modes with the settings cranked for more realism. The online sim guys have the option to play EASHL. Which is more forgiving than full sim, but also depends on how your teammates play. There's Threes and Ones for the guys that want more arcade action. HUT and OVP lean more towards realistic than arcade, but it's also tuned for fun so you still get highlight-reel moments. We need a game that is fun for as many people as possible. I'm definitely a guy that likes to "play hockey" as you put it, but I also like the hybrid of arcade and sim we have. If want to play real hockey, I can do that. When I play video games, I want them to be fun. That's the goal in the end. To have fun. For almost everyone, games are a leisure activity and we strive to bring that to your living room.

That one-man wrecking crew is going to have a hard time getting that shot off though. At least, against a good team that knows how to defend it. So, you hopefully take pleasure in stopping almost all their shots. Yeah, one may get through, but you know that guy is getting frustrated because he knows how to do one thing and you're not letting him. 

There really aren't hidden bonuses and debuffs. The builds, traits and specializations are pretty detailed, but people being who they are will use their own confirmation bias to turn their assumptions into "fact".

@EA_Aljo 

I don't really think you're taking 2v2 and 3v3 games into account here - the ai has a massive impact on the game and their inability to do simple things at times makes teams feel like they have to do everything - this is where custom builds would be huge. As I said before, I just feel like being funnelled the way we currently are just isn't as fun as it could be; having negatives is obvious, I'd just like to control those slightly better. Two-way is on the lower end of mid-tier all around so there are better options imo.

You can hit small guys all day but since intimidation was removed, the only thing hits are good for are the odd chuckle here and there. You can literally regain all your stamina before you get up, and still have a great chance at retaining the puck after getting destroyed.

The main stats you need to really worry about are shot, strength/balance, and speed in relation to your style so it shouldn't matter if you use an offensive D or enforcer as your centerman.

I've been a global ONES champ already and my buddy is probably top 100 HUT at the moment - playing EASHL is like pulling teeth sometimes because you think it'll be split right down the middle, but everything is so inconsistent. The ai can play absolutely amazing one game but need to be taken back behind the shed the next game. You can have 50 perfect, primo shots and cross-creasers in a game and not score, only to have their computer shoot from the blue line and it trickles in. There is no perfect defence for the rebound cheesers because the puck is so random and it just goes right through your legs and seemingly through your body anyway - it gets to the point where you literally have no reason not to believe in the tilt that doesn't exist. These moments are what need fixing for the mode and yet it has remained the same for years.

Confirmation bias is all well and real for many players but I honestly don't see how the team can sit back and not agree that even 1% of stuff going on is strange. You can say "well NHL is random" but there are patterns and stuff keeps happening every other game. This is why I've been pining for more of those short videos from the team explaining plays and the percentages of things happening on the ice; it should be pretty simple for you to show how we're wrong and I think that should make players feel better about what they think is happening.

Nothing is more frustrating than playing so hard and so well for one-trick-ponies just needing that one shot and getting it because you were one pixel off. All the defence in the world can't handle every single shot (we've brought teams to 1 and 2 shots for the game before but it's horrible to be scared of ANY shot that is taken, simple flicks from center included).

When I talk about the hidden stuff I mean aggression, intimidation, momentum, types of injuries and how exactly they are affecting you, the reason for cold and hot streaks, and how much specialties and traits actually affect your stats. "x trait gives a slight boost to x" isn't as detailed as it could be. You said offensive awareness increases everything, well, it could at least show exactly what is gained.
When I mentioned stats comparisons I was referring to how the system has changed over the years. Before you were able to compare old builds with new builds side by side and it was all streamlined and easy to read. This is a minor quality of life gripe I have but it's still important.


If you play on PS4 I would love to get a best of 7 series going - 2v2 or maybe 3v3 ( both in 6's) if we can get our other friend to play

@TTZ_Dipsy 

I guess we can agree to disagree. I've seen a lot of success with beating smaller players with a more physical game. Regardless of how much stamina they regain, the puck is most often now in your possession. Which was the point of the hit to begin with. To separate them from the puck. Unless you're hitting them on the boards, chances of causing a turnover are high. Even on the boards, if a teammate knows what you're doing, they should be able to recover the puck. Which, I realize requires some double teaming, but this can also pay off well. Especially when you have teammates that also recognize the potential play happening and get open for a quick pass.

This requires more human players than you normally play with though. Like discussed previously, AI players are there to fill in. They aren't meant to absolutely replace the human element that comes when playing with friends or even just guys you have natural chemistry with. The core of EASHL 6s. I know many teams won't have all 6 on at a time so the AI are a decent replacement, but they will never think or play just like humans. In many cases they play better, but there are of course times they don't quite do what you want them to. Having the ability to create those players for your team and assign builds, traits, specializations, etc, sounds like a cool idea, but I think it kinda takes away from promoting playing with other humans. We'll have just have to see what happens down the road, but I'll pass on the feedback.

Are you able to predict every play of every real hockey game? I'm going to assume not. That's because there is no real inconsistency. Each game is different. You can't predict every bounce and rebound. Sure, you can predict angles and where the puck is going instead of where it is, but the dynamic nature of the sport means it's more chaos than consistent. There are times goalies stand on their heads. There are times they let in muffins from the blue line. This happens in real hockey and it happens in the game. You've scored your fair share of highlight reel goals as well as ones that you don't feel so good about. Again, you see those in the real world as well. I mean, look at Mike Smith scoring in his own net because the puck landed in the back of his pants. Weird stuff happens. You accept it in the real world because you don't have any control over it. You expect more control over a video game and when you don't have it, it's easy to say there's a problem with the game. I'm not saying NHL 20 is perfect. Like any game out there, or piece of software for that matter, it's going to have bugs and glitches. That's the nature of software. However, to say the game has a problem when a dynamic sport like hockey is inconsistent, I think that's more just how the sport is rather than a problem.

There is no ice tilt whatsoever. If there were it would mean all your wins were because the computer chose you to win and scripted the outcome. It would mean your sitting at the top of the Ones leaderboards would be because the computer forced you to win. Seems pretty unlikely, right? I get that it's easy to believe in the mythical tilt, but you'd be better off focused on your own play and recognizing where you can improve instead of believing the game chooses when you're allowed to win and lose.

One thing many people don't realize is that the AI depend heavily on what the human-controlled players are doing. If you're constantly out of position, they are going to try to make up for that. If you aren't giving them good options for passes, they're going to look elsewhere. So many humans just call for the puck from the computers when they're not open, then blame the computer for making a bad pass. Yeah, they aren't perfect. I get that for sure, but they're also not as bad as they're made out to be. Then again, I'm frequently playing with 1 or 2 AI players so there's going to be a different experience when you're playing 2v2. When I have done that, I've paid attention to changing strategies throughout the game according to how my opponents are playing. 3 AI players can be deadly though. Especially if they are all forwards. When you let them play, they can do quite well. When the human element starts interfering with that, it can spiral out of control. Which, again, brings me back to how AI players depend on good play from their human teammates.

None of what you think is hidden is actually in the game. There's no momentum or aggression. Injuries are in, but they aren't hidden.

Most of the time when I show someone they're wrong, they don't accept it. The tilt theory is a prime example. We've said for years it's not real, but rarely are believed. There are devs that break down mechanics in the forums and still get told their wrong. These are the people that make the game, but they are also told that what they are saying is incorrect. So, it's often a fruitless effort when you try to give someone insight into the game when they don't believe you.

There are real games where teams win after being dominated with shots. Don't you think a real team is scared of any shot that is taken? They all have a chance of going in as long as they are on net. There are times off-net shots even go in due to odd bounces. That's hockey for you though. It's been happening for more than 100 years.

I'm trying to get more details on what exactly offensive awareness takes into account. When I have some news on it, I'll let you know.

I play on Xbox. Besides, we don't give out personal gamertags/PSN IDs. It would certainly be fun to play though if it were possible.