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Jagavekov's avatar
Jagavekov
4 years ago

The AI makes this game basically unplayable offline (for me)

As usual, this time of year I stop playing HUT and give the other modes a shot.  I figured I would start a Be a Pro career to see if that is fun.  Despite how great the game looks and all the "features", the on-ice product is so poor I can't have any fun playing it at all.

I started a career in the NHL with a playmaking winger, on Superstar difficulty with Full-Sim sliders.  My first few shifts I collected the following clips, all showing how insanely bad the AI is:

The forwards are doing god knows what, but definitely not cutting off passing or skating lanes, and the defense backs up and does not seem to care about allowing an easy zone entry.

The forechecking forwards take horrible angles, misjudge the speed and trajectory of the puck carrier, and do absolutely nothing, while again the defense backs up ridiculously and allows an easy zone entry.

This is probably the worst one, as it is on a 5 on 3, where my (lowly rated) player easily loses a forechecker behind the net and skates up the ice completely pressure-free.  Again, this was on a 5 on 3, where you should barely be able to have enough time to ice the puck, nevermind skate it up ice unpressured.

There are two main problems with all of these clips - the angles the forecheckers take, and the gaps the defencemen leave.  

Forecheckers seem to always be a second or two behind where they should be, taking nearly straight line paths to where the puck carrier was seconds ago rather than taking an angle to where they currently are/where they are going and angling the puck carrier towards the boards.  

Here is how NHL 22 AI pursues the puck carrier:

Here is more how they should pursue the puck carrier:

The D-gaps have always been an issue in every hockey game, even the 2k games which were more realistic in many ways.  They just allow forwards to coast into the zone easily, almost never forcing dump-ins or turnovers.  And backchecking pressure from forwards is either nonexistent or suffers the same angling issues as the forechecking.  Here is a really low quality (sorry) clip of a real game that shows the combination of D gap control and backchecking causing a chip-in rather than an easy zone entry:

Now these sorts of things may not bother people who are more casual hockey fans, I don't know.  But how can such a huge part of hockey - the difficulty of moving the puck out of your zone and getting it into the opponent's zone -  be basically nonexistent in this game?  Its like if a football game didn't have running plays, or a baseball game only had homeruns.  This game is more like basketball - getting the puck set up in the zone is a foregone conclusion, all the action takes place once you are already there.  There is a total lack of action or suspense in the first 2/3rds of the ice surface when you have the puck.  The game can have all the outfits, cutscenes, and storylines it wants, but the on-ice gameplay is so boring and predictable that it is not fun. Having an AI player be able to judge speed and trajectory and take a proper angle on a puck carrier doesn't seem like some crazy technological achievement either, I'm pretty sure we had the technology 30-40 years ago to do that.

If allowing players to waltz up the ice and into the zone unharassed is a conscious design choice due to EA's bean counters thinking that this will entice more casuals to buy/play the game, then let me know and I will stop pointing these things out.  I don't think that is smart, however, since if people are buying a hockey game they probably want a hockey game, not 1/3rd of one.

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  • Sega82mega's avatar
    Sega82mega
    4 years ago

    @JagavekovLooks like RW (flames) even beg for the defender to take away the middle, but still stands firm at the wing.

    That surface in the middle should be much more difficult to access, especially in a 5-2 situation..

    * But it shows pretty good on how one-dimensional our AI is, almost a bit static. Bad ability to 'think humanly', more just up and down. Much basic. 

    Cover deep and being able to see other threats on the ice more then the puck carrier would be great.

    We need more 'brain-power' to our AI. 

  • maxikando's avatar
    maxikando
    4 years ago

    Great post with examples of how broken the AI is in this game. It's a shame EA will take no notice of this post. I think this is really highlighted on the power play.

    Just looking at the 5-on-3 example - further to the forechecker (your player) losing the player behind the net what is the AI teammate in the centre doing. Why is he going in the opposite direction to the player with the puck and back out of the zone (red line). This is the team with a 2 man advantage and the player with the puck is going backwards in the direction behind the net?? Compare with the live action clip where the player in the centre moves towards the puck carrier to help his teammate forcing the puck carrier to dump the puck in. Surely the AI teammate should be going in direction 1. (blue arrow) to help win the puck or 2. to cut off the player coming out behind the net or a least to stop the puck being sent around the boards (direction of the black arrow). What is causing unusual erratic behaviour like this? Why is the forecheck so passive especially on a 5-on-3?

    Also from your clips on the power play. Why are 4 players at several points in the clip together in the same area of the ice. It totally negates the team having a man advantage. In the first clip 3 players are actually behind the player with the puck!! How are you supposed to move the puck around on the PP when everyone is in the same area??

    Whether the AI is broken beyond repair or they just don't spend any time on it I'm not really sure but until they sort it out it's always going to be a disappointing playing experience. It's a shame because there is potentially a really good game here once they sort out the AI.

  • StrongReactionA's avatar
    StrongReactionA
    4 years ago

    We are never going to get the AI you want.  It's insanely difficult to program AI for such a dynamic game like NHL.  

    That said, there are giant gaping holes that can and need to be fixed.  Your second pic is a prime example.  There absolutely no reason for that.  

    A triangle like that makes sense down in the corner.  With one guy being net front.  But obviously it is somehow being applied up by the blue line, which is ridiculous.  

    Getting AI to make decisions like in your first part is difficult.  There are always going to be issues with it.  

    Getting AI to stand in places that even vaguely resemble an NHL power play isn't hard.  It can and should be fixed.

  • maxikando's avatar
    maxikando
    4 years ago

    Yeah nobody said coding this game is easy but it should be a lot better than it is. There should be highly intelligent people working on this game so either there is so much going on with AI/strategies that player movement is erratic/broken or they are just not spending any time on it. Even if you can't get the AI to make decisions like in the first picture the players on a 5-on-3 should not be heading back out of the offensive zone when the opponent is heading back towards his own net with the puck. This is basic stuff.


    Realistically you should have separate AI for different phases of the game as player movement should be very different depending on the situation e.g. powerplay: entering the offensive zone, powerplay: getting set up in the offensive zone when in possession, powerplay: recovering the puck in the offensive zone etc. To me the same player movement is applied whether the team is on the power play or even strength which is why we are getting things on the powerplay like the picture below.

    As you say - "getting the AI to stand in places that even vaguely resemble an NHL power play should not be that hard". I totally agree. Most teams run a 1-3-1 powerplay. If you look at the picture below (sorry it's a bit messy), as soon as a team gets possession of the puck, players should be going to to their respective positions highlighted by the X. Basic movement should be in the directions of the red arrows (staying within the highlighted area). Should any player move out of this highlighted area e.g. due to recovering possession of the puck, then the player should be replaced in the highlighted zone. Player rotation examples shown by the blue arrows.

    We really don't have anything close to this and I would ask why not? 

  • pharrald19486's avatar
    pharrald19486
    2 years ago
    @Jagavekov Omg I'm in my first year and I need one point to break the rookie record all of a sudden the AI is unbeatable. I'm only half way into the season but the AI refuses to allow me my point. It's insane.

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