@RodSirloin For someone that said 2K is trash, I wouldn’t say you were being reasonable
Fact is that EA have made a golf game that is overly simplistic and doesn’t at all cater for those who wish to be challenged. This straight away reduces the player base. Difficulty levels need expanding greatly to ensure all ability levels are catered for. I’ve found that it’s far too simple to swing on plane, hit fairways, fit greens with approaches, control distance with shots, and even putts are little too simple. It also has to be said that shots from compromising lies aren’t penalised enough. A shot from thick rough still goes at least 96% of the distance? 2K nails it with swing plane and tempo even if they mix the effects up for the sake of the game. Literally the ONLY thing EA does better than 2K is having the majors licenced.
As a golfer thats better than the average bear, I can see EA make the game of golf look too easy. It was supposed to be the most realistic golf game out there and golf as a sport is extremely challenging but i can honestly say I’ve had a more challenging and realistic game of golf on Everybody’s Golf VR. EA needs to offer more levels of challenge and it’s clear the developers have either aimed the game at just casuals or have never player the game of golf before.
@drewgriffithsI played the free play days on Xbox and 2k23 is complete trash. GUI, to graphics, to music, to swing mechanics, to putting, it’s complete trash.
I honestly can’t believe HB Studios is unable to improve. It’s their worst golf game to date. Look at the reviews and let them speak for themselves.
With that said, what’s unreasonable from me? I’m an end-user with a plethora of experience and citing not only myself, but also the voices of countless people that unfortunately paid for 2k lol.
Those that wish for extreme challenge are a minute % of the EA player base so it’s not accurate to say it’s hurting sales. Making the game easier clearly speaks to a wider player base…it’s basic business. It’s always been that way, make it easier more new players are likey to buy your game.
Also, this is EA’s hardest game to date. I never missed putts in TW like I do now and I was ranked very well then so I clearly have a high level of experience to reference. At my worst, my record was like 250-10.
2k doesn’t nail anything, it’s terrible from top to bottom. All the negative reviews agree with me that the swing mechanics are terrible. Don’t take my word, have a look for yourself.
I’ve played both and if you think EA doesn’t trump 2k on every level, we have nothing more to discuss.
@RodSirloinYou present one opinion, yours. I think it is a bit presumptuous to believe we can speak for others.
2K23 is different, it is not my favorite game in the series. They did something to the putting in 2K21 that exists in 2K23 that doesn't register my putting stroke for shorter putts. I believe it has something to do with the deadzone in the controller. But I appreciated that 2K23 increased the green speeds and how much the ball rolled out.
Regardless the GUI is functional as well as the graphics... I believe we are here more for the golfing experience over the pretty pictures. Though I do appreciate the pretty graphics, but lets be honest they are not up to what the Unreal Engine is pushing out these days.
The swing mechanics are fine, the tempo adds another layer of difficulty to the game. 2K doesn't need an artifical oversized dispersion zone to emulate difficulty in the game. Difficulty in 2K is all based on execution... though I would welcome a small layer of dispersion to add a little randomness to your shots.
I find those complaining about 2K are those that are unable to play the game. The Golf Club in their wisdom developed a game for everyone. Those that hate it seem to not be able to get past their ego's and disable features to allow them to hit straight.
I will play on LEGEND in 2K just to hit more bad shots to make things seem more realistic. Even playing on MASTER settings I don't hit that many good shots in real life.
I find it enjoyable trying to figure out how to make a par on a hole where I didn't hit the green in regulation. And I find it rewarding and gratifying when I do, unlike in EA.
The 2K game rewards you based on your execution of your shot like in real life. The rough is penal, but I don't think is penal enough, shots also get more difficult to execute in hazards. You lose spin coming out of the rough, the greens play faster with more roll out.
If you leave yourself above the pin in the rough with a green sloping away from you, stopping the ball anywhere around the hole can be a challenge. Unlike EA where you can flop to within a few feet and have it stick.
In 2K you will have to play the ball where it lands, unlike EA you don't get a magic placement in a better spot. And you also don't get a ball that finished in the rough, end up in a hazard.
2K is by no means perfect, I personally hate the speed of the swing. I thought it was a huge mistake to increase the swing speed in 2K21. I believe distance should be controlled by loft, swing length and swing speed. 2K has made partial shots almost impossible to execute. Both games use a reticule to basically point where you want the ball to go. But at least 2K gave those that want to disable it the ability to do so.
I think it is pretty obvious that a lot of players are losing interest in EA PGA, as you can see the fall off in the tournament support.
I have played golf games since the mid 70's... I cannot say I have played them all but I would be comfortable saying I have at least tried 95% of them. I am sure a few slipped through the cracks over the years.
I bought and supported the The Golf Club series since it's inception and played on a regular basis until the release of the EA game.
I now feel I am a man with no country. After 3 months away from 2K I realized there is a significant skill set that you learn to compete in that game. The inconsistent swing speed of the animation bothers me, especially when it happens when you are trying to make a short chip shot.
Neither game is perfect... but at least 2K opens things up to all level of plsyers.
My final points are that in my opinion the demographic you want to cater too is the more serious golfer. They are the ones that will play the game day after day until the next release. This is their thing... the casual gamer will move on to the next shiny object in short order and there is no guarantee they will buy another golf game if a new Diablo is released at the same time.
But you know diehard golfers are waiting to consume anything in that genre. And they have the monies to do it.
2K without question in my a opinion a better golfing sim at this point. EA plays far too much like a Mario Golf game.
I'm just hoping EA will created a bridge to include players of all levels to enjoy their game.
@IXOYE56 wrote:
@ELF014"EA Sports, it's a Game" I agree with you, but I have no hopes.
Is that still their motto?
Back when they arrived in the marketplace as Electronic Arts, I truly believed it. They really did take innovation to another level... I really miss those days. They never disappointed back then. I don't ever remember thinking that something was wrong or missing. But then back then you couldn't just send a patch out. The games were in cartridge form and you had to get it right the first time.
@RodSirloin I’m just break down some things you say and explain why I don’t agree or explain why it’s flat out wrong. I’ll quote them and underneath give my opinion, one from a proper golfer who has played the vast majority of golf games for the past 30 years including owning both EA PGA and 2K23 and playing them not as a gamer but as a golfer
”2K23 is complete trash”
You don’t actually at all explain why certain things in 2K fail to meet your expectations which leads me to believe you just can’t get your head around the mechanics of 2K which are superior in every way to EA. Granted, 2K mixes up swing plane and tempo with the effects a bad shot has, but I understand why it was done that way.
“I honestly can’t believe HB Studios is unable to improve. It’s their worst golf game to date”
It isn’t. Their first one was and it’s reasonable to debate whether that one is at least an equals to EA PGA
“Those that wish for extreme challenge”
We want a REALISTIC challenge
“With that said, what’s unreasonable from me? I’m an end-user with a plethora of experience”
Your “plethora of experience” doesn’t make you immune from being unreasonable. Saying a game is trash giving vague reasons is pretty unrealistic because it makes you sound like a stroppy teenager who just simply can’t play the game
“Making the game easier clearly speaks to a wider player base…it’s basic business”
Nonsense. Making a game ACCESSIBLE and one that CATERS for a wide audience… it’s basic business. 2K does this… EA PGA does not. EA forgets that it’s likely that a large number of players will have actually played golf for real and will understand the sport and playing this alienates a large portion of that potential fan base because the game just doesn’t play like golf and player numbers are already dwindling fast.
“Also, this is EA’s hardest game to date”
No it isn’t…. By a LONG stretch. It’s actually one of the easiest and I”ve played the series since it began. This game from EA is on a level par with TW 2002 and 09 for how easy it is. I found ones like TW 11 and 14 far harder…. FAR harder.
”2k doesn’t nail anything, it’s terrible from top to bottom. All the negative reviews agree with me that the swing mechanics are terrible. Don’t take my word, have a look for yourself”
You actually think game reviewers have ANY understanding of the game of golf? It’s most likely they’ve never picked up a club in their lives and think it’s a simple game. You also sound like you’ve never picked up a club in your life, if I’m honest. That may offend, but that’s how it sounds.
“I’ve played both and if you think EA doesn’t trump 2k on every level, we have nothing more to discuss.”
I have played both too and this is what i mean by you being unreasonable. Your final statement basically says if I have a different opinion than you and don’t believe EA is better in every way, we ain’t talking. Well, I guess we ain’t talking then… and it’s no skin off my nose. But by saying that, you put yourself in a position where you look petulant, contemptuous and even arrogant.
My conclusion is that you’re purely a casual which is fine… casuals have a place, but you want the hardest level to be easy to inflate your own ego instead of playing a proper challenging golf game and simply either practicing and improving or swallowing your pride and decreasing the difficulty. It’s clear 2K is too hard for you so you choose to bash what is a very good game by saying it’s trash and not really saying why other than very vague details which anyone could make up.
I speak from years of real world golf experience where the details of golf would probably make your brain melt and it’s a fact that 2K simulates golf better.
But anyway, we have nothing further to discuss. All the best.
@ELF014 Absolutely agree with ALMOST everything here except the partial shots in 2K because I’ve been able to execute them wonderfully just like in real life. I played a round today at my home club which is on 2K21. I’m on a par 5 and my 3rd shot disappointingly drops short of the green, 40 yards from the hole and i was saying to my mate that I actually prefer 65/70 yard shots so I can smoothly pitch it close with my 60 degree lob wedge and having a 40 yard shot makes it awkward for that, so I instead opted to chip it with a 7 iron…. I only holed it for a birdie 😆. First thing i said was “Maybe I should start liking that shot more!”😆
2K makes you think about your shots more like a real golfer than what EA does. I honestly find myself playing 2K and thinking about shots exactly the same way as I do on the real course. EA doesn’t make me do that, I can just hit shots nonchalantly and move on.
@Allan5858 wrote:
@drewgriffithsHaving played nearly every golf game since the commodore 64, I can, without reservation say, that both EA and 2k have produced the most advanced golf games. There is little to choose from both, but 2k swing mechanics are more difficult only because you only know that you have a bad swing plane after you strike the ball and the trajectory mechanics are not as realistic as EA, whereas in EA you can see your swing plane prior to committing a stroke. Would say for the gamer, 2k is ideal, but EA is more suited to the golfer. I refer to the different shots you can make with each club in EA, however, to make some of the shots like texas wedge, knockdown in 2k proves to be problematic. 2k golf relies on perfect swing to achieve the best out comes. Finally 2k has better hazard/rough percentages than EA.
I have to respectfully disagree. I wouldn't say that 2K and EA have produced the most advanced golf games in the market, but the most available.
Neither is perfect, and in my opinion both still need some substantial work. I personally feel 2K plays a little more realistic but you have to buy into their swing mechanics.
To me 2K offers more realistic gameplay overall with it's swing mechanics and ball physics. I personally know right away if I mishit a shot and have a pretty good idea where it will end off the club face. With EA and the dispersion pattern I have no idea... I can feel I hit a good shot and it will be 10 yards into the rough. Or I know I have made a bad swing (confirmed in the swing meter), and it will go straight down the fairway. EA doesn't seem to reward good shots.
I agree 2K does not give you access to the number if shot types like EA... but then there is seldom any advantage in using what is available in EA. You can easily navigate the course with 6 of the 20 shot types (Drive, Approach, Finesse, Spinner, Flop, Pick). I'm going by memory so forgive me if I get some of them wrong. The flop and pick shots make getting up and down around the green a ridiculously simple process.
Lag putting is also ridiculously easy in EA, once you understand the slope meter.
Both games in my opinion suffer with the swing mechanics... where you can set your distance with the reticule. It is literally point and shoot... except with EA the result is so random there is no guarantee it will end up where you targeted your shot even if you made great execution. But in 2K favor they do let you disable the reticule allowing to make it a little more realistic... in my case in 2K I control distance with loft.
Distance should be controlled by loft, swing length and swing speed. It is simple physics... "time to complete the swing of the club x velocity (how fast the club is moving)" plus factoring in the launch angle of the ball.
Which is why I don't like 2K's concept of where every shot is pretty much a full shot. Patrial shots are near impossible... In 2K there is one swing speed, where in my real golf game I have multiples... a more nuanced one for pitching and chipping.... and my full swing.
EA have in my mind taken a better approach as they took a more neutral approach with a awing speed somewhere inbetween.
As I said the ball physics are much better in 2K... it is important in 2K where your ball ends up. If you are above the green in the rough where it is sloping away from you. Stopping the ball will not be easy. In EA a flop shot will stick from anywhere. At least 2K will reduce the spin of a shot coming out of rough... this is not the case with EA.
I play 2K with all aids off except wind direction/meter and the green grid. The only thing showing on my screen is the hole information in the upper left corner and scorecard. I can easily shoot over par if I am not careful.
I try to do the same with EA but the game limits what can be disabled... I can honestly say I can only ever remember shooting over par once. On their SIM presets I usually average a round of -5.
I have shot numerous rounds in EA in the 50's... this has only happened to me 3 times in 2K over all the years I have played the game.
In the 3 months I have played EA, I have 6 hole in ones... and 2 double eagles. In the 9 years I played The Golf Club/2K PGA I had...
The Golf Club - 1 hole in one
The Golf Club 2 - nada
The Golf Club 2019 - 1 hole in one
2K21 - 2 hole in one and 1 double eagle
2K23 - 3 hole in one and 1 double eagle
Finally I agree about the rough, at least 2K has some. I don't think either company executed this facet of thr game very well. But it was shocking to me the lack of punishment in EA considering you can set multiple length of cut for the rough.
Sorry for the extended length of the post. To end... I like EA, but it is truly lacking. 2K for me provides a much better golfing experience... but currently I'm finding I am not playing either game. Both games have enough issues that neither holds my interest. I am no longer willing to buy into 2K's ridiculously fast swing speeds, and I am tired of shooting low scores in EA's Mario Golf game.
I'm just waiting and hoping either EA or 2K will make some changes to make their games play better. Or that a third-party comes along and wows me.
People are missing the point about this game and realism. It doesnt matter how many shot types you have etc. The visuals etc dont make the game realistic.
Its the gameplay that makes the game realistic.
This game has ridiculous AI. Its ported straight from Rory golf and got exactly the same problems that ruined that game.
The gameplay and AI determines realism.
I too have been playing since leaderboard days.
The finest use of AI in any golf game is in British open championship golf from 1998. That has AI and realism that blow any golf game made since out of the water.
That game was brutally difficult and flopped.
Todays gamers dont want realism. They want stunning visuals. They equate stunning visuals with a stunning game.
This golf game can never be anything other than total garbage as EA will never fix the AI. I remember exactly the same debates with Rory golf.
EA were flooded with demands for the AI to be repaired and the game to be made realistic. EA did absolutely nothing.
And that is what they will do here.
This game will never be made playable for those that want realism.
EA have even broken the mods that did make the ai better. Just as they do with fifa.
Forget the cosmetics. They do not make a game realistic.
If you want a realistic golf game then you wont find one at present. It is unlikely that we will ever see a realistic game again.
The majority do not want a realistic game. They just want fancy visuals and to win without trying and thinking.
Thats what they have.
I wont be playing this rubbish again. I wont be renewing my subscription.
@Choochoomama71I agree with you. The only thing I said was that the scores on the leadboard are not terrible.
I never play with the AI enabled, not sure why anyone would want to double the time to play a round of golf when the experience is not very realistic or competitive.
As you mentioned I believe a lot of the issue is how unrealistic the game plays. They made it accessible to the masses, but have not served the needs of who I believe would be their most important demographic. The people who actually play and have more than just a passing understanding of the game. And for those that don't play, this could have been used as a teaching experience as you mastered the game.
I think the rhetoric that was advertised was promising, it just feels like very little of it has been included in the game to this point.
I'm just hoping that at some point the game will represent what was promoted.
I would support adding a setting or difficulty level called British Open Championship Golf for gamers who want a challenge. To supplement for single player non-competitive modes, adding sliders would also make sense. I prefer them to be options because I would not want the British Open Difficulty imposed on amateur and less experienced players like me. I prefer to play the boring golf instead of curse at the TV screen playing this game more than watching the Bills lose to the Bengals. Different strokes for different folks. That’s why more options and choices make more sense.
@ELF014 The British Open Championship Golf mode is inspired from a post from another user. @Choochoomama71said that the 1998 game British Open Championship has the most difficult AI.
WWE 2K series, AEW Fight Forever and the EA UFC series has a practice mode where the AI is like a mannequin. I call it Barbie Mode because it is like my created superstar vs Barbie. That is almost similar to the way the AI plays in this game. I set the AI sliders to 25 so I don’t go against Barbie. But I do not set the sliders too high because I do not want to get crushed by Tiger
@drewgriffithsNice response without making things too personal, and providing a point of view to back up your opinion.
I agree with your points. I think that we both agree that you and I are not lobbying to change the game to make it less accessible for casual players... but to make it more inclusive for those that better understand the game and are looking for more realism.
Your post would have been much easier to read though if you has bolded his or your comments.
@ELF014 Absolutely this is not us trying to make the game harder to just merely cater for t better players like ourselves, but we are lobbying for a game that caters for all, INCLUDING us better players. A lot of other games are able to achieve this without much of a problem.
… and my apologies for not holding original comments, i have to admit it didn’t cross my mind to do that and I don’t really know how to do that 😆. It’s probably something so easy
@drewgriffiths wrote:@ELF014 Absolutely this is not us trying to make the game harder to just merely cater for t better players like ourselves, but we are lobbying for a game that caters for all, INCLUDING us better players. A lot of other games are able to achieve this without much of a problem.
… and my apologies for not holding original comments, i have to admit it didn’t cross my mind to do that and I don’t really know how to do that 😆. It’s probably something so easy
lol... I feel you. I have absolutely no problem with you going off topic, I have the same trait. That a topic will bring something else to mind would not be uncommon for me.
I believe these forums are for discourse, so as long as things stay civil I am happy to follow any path where a discussion will take us.
But be back on point. I agree, I don't think 2K has gotten it right either... however HBStudio's from the start was inclusive to all levels of players.
I have given up with the game as its a total waste of time playing career mode.
I like my sports games to be realistic. Ea arent interested in making realistic sports games. And the majority of gamers dont want to play sports games that are difficult. They want nice graphics and dont care about anything else.
This golf game is for people who dont like golf games. Just as fifa is for those who don't like football games. Etc etc etc.
EA have just ported over the ai from Rory golf into this game. They have made zero effort to actually make this game realistic.
EA did nothing to make Rory golf realistic and they wont do a thing to make this game realistic.
Its EA.
That says it all.
We wont be getting another decent golf. Those days are long gone. They aren't coming back.
Ever.
Not that many people actually care.
@BuckHasTheBook wrote:
@Choochoomama71So happy I didn't waste a nickel on this game.
I can't remember such a disparity between expectations and reality as this game.
Just a complete disappointment. I won't be surprised at all if they can this game.
I can't think of a better description than
"I can't remember such a disparity between expectations and reality as this game.
Just a complete disappointment"
This is pretty much how I feel about the game. Though as mentioned above... I can see the potential as well, if they review what they developed versus what they should have created. Things could be very good.
But ASIS, you are right... it's been very disappointing.
Yes the game is almost brilliant. The same goes for all their sports games.
As for EA fixing it. don't be ridiculous. This is EA. They absolutely will not fix their sports games.
Every one has the problems. Broken AI, scripting, and a complete lack of realism.
Do you honestly expect EA to change their habits of a lifetime?
We had exactly the same debates when Rory Golf came out.
This game is Rory golf with better graphics.
I absolutely guarantee that EA will not fix this game.
For myself, this game is unplayable in career mode. I did vastly improve the AI and difficulty with a mod i created myself but EA broke the modding system. Just as they do with fifa.
They put massive efforts into breaking mods but refuse to actually fix their games themselves.
What a disgrace they are.
@Allan5858 wrote:
@ELF014IMHO golf is not a game to hurry, but should you want to then EA has provided you with the facilities to do so. Whether the the experience is realistic or not depends largely on how you perceive the game and how immersed you want to be.
I admit that there are things that need fixing in the game, but by and large it is a very good game and beautifully presented.
I fully agree with you that golf is a game to be experienced where the journey should be better than the destination.
And that the presentation of the game overall is not terrible.
My issue with the game is with it's lack of features, the play mechanics and ball physics. Even at the most difficult settings there is not much challenge in the game.
Golf in real life is a game relatively easy to play, and difficult to master. I fully understand having a game to allow people to score better than the pros. But how about being inclusive and include settings for those wanting a more realistic experience. And to do it without an exaggerated RNG parameter to create artificial difficulty. I am all for a reasonable amount for variety in shot patterns, but it should not be used as a method to increase difficulty in a game.
This is okay when playing on-line with friends, ONLY because we are playing in the same environment... (but are we, since we cannot lockdown specific settings in a private match). But the game plays far too easy, to make it challenging... you walk through shots rather than having to work through them.
I'm just hoping for a more difficult but fair challenge with a future patch.
