@RodSirloin I’m just break down some things you say and explain why I don’t agree or explain why it’s flat out wrong. I’ll quote them and underneath give my opinion, one from a proper golfer who has played the vast majority of golf games for the past 30 years including owning both EA PGA and 2K23 and playing them not as a gamer but as a golfer
”2K23 is complete trash”
You don’t actually at all explain why certain things in 2K fail to meet your expectations which leads me to believe you just can’t get your head around the mechanics of 2K which are superior in every way to EA. Granted, 2K mixes up swing plane and tempo with the effects a bad shot has, but I understand why it was done that way.
“I honestly can’t believe HB Studios is unable to improve. It’s their worst golf game to date”
It isn’t. Their first one was and it’s reasonable to debate whether that one is at least an equals to EA PGA
“Those that wish for extreme challenge”
We want a REALISTIC challenge
“With that said, what’s unreasonable from me? I’m an end-user with a plethora of experience”
Your “plethora of experience” doesn’t make you immune from being unreasonable. Saying a game is trash giving vague reasons is pretty unrealistic because it makes you sound like a stroppy teenager who just simply can’t play the game
“Making the game easier clearly speaks to a wider player base…it’s basic business”
Nonsense. Making a game ACCESSIBLE and one that CATERS for a wide audience… it’s basic business. 2K does this… EA PGA does not. EA forgets that it’s likely that a large number of players will have actually played golf for real and will understand the sport and playing this alienates a large portion of that potential fan base because the game just doesn’t play like golf and player numbers are already dwindling fast.
“Also, this is EA’s hardest game to date”
No it isn’t…. By a LONG stretch. It’s actually one of the easiest and I”ve played the series since it began. This game from EA is on a level par with TW 2002 and 09 for how easy it is. I found ones like TW 11 and 14 far harder…. FAR harder.
”2k doesn’t nail anything, it’s terrible from top to bottom. All the negative reviews agree with me that the swing mechanics are terrible. Don’t take my word, have a look for yourself”
You actually think game reviewers have ANY understanding of the game of golf? It’s most likely they’ve never picked up a club in their lives and think it’s a simple game. You also sound like you’ve never picked up a club in your life, if I’m honest. That may offend, but that’s how it sounds.
“I’ve played both and if you think EA doesn’t trump 2k on every level, we have nothing more to discuss.”
I have played both too and this is what i mean by you being unreasonable. Your final statement basically says if I have a different opinion than you and don’t believe EA is better in every way, we ain’t talking. Well, I guess we ain’t talking then… and it’s no skin off my nose. But by saying that, you put yourself in a position where you look petulant, contemptuous and even arrogant.
My conclusion is that you’re purely a casual which is fine… casuals have a place, but you want the hardest level to be easy to inflate your own ego instead of playing a proper challenging golf game and simply either practicing and improving or swallowing your pride and decreasing the difficulty. It’s clear 2K is too hard for you so you choose to bash what is a very good game by saying it’s trash and not really saying why other than very vague details which anyone could make up.
I speak from years of real world golf experience where the details of golf would probably make your brain melt and it’s a fact that 2K simulates golf better.
But anyway, we have nothing further to discuss. All the best.
@Allan5858 wrote:
@drewgriffithsHaving played nearly every golf game since the commodore 64, I can, without reservation say, that both EA and 2k have produced the most advanced golf games. There is little to choose from both, but 2k swing mechanics are more difficult only because you only know that you have a bad swing plane after you strike the ball and the trajectory mechanics are not as realistic as EA, whereas in EA you can see your swing plane prior to committing a stroke. Would say for the gamer, 2k is ideal, but EA is more suited to the golfer. I refer to the different shots you can make with each club in EA, however, to make some of the shots like texas wedge, knockdown in 2k proves to be problematic. 2k golf relies on perfect swing to achieve the best out comes. Finally 2k has better hazard/rough percentages than EA.
I have to respectfully disagree. I wouldn't say that 2K and EA have produced the most advanced golf games in the market, but the most available.
Neither is perfect, and in my opinion both still need some substantial work. I personally feel 2K plays a little more realistic but you have to buy into their swing mechanics.
To me 2K offers more realistic gameplay overall with it's swing mechanics and ball physics. I personally know right away if I mishit a shot and have a pretty good idea where it will end off the club face. With EA and the dispersion pattern I have no idea... I can feel I hit a good shot and it will be 10 yards into the rough. Or I know I have made a bad swing (confirmed in the swing meter), and it will go straight down the fairway. EA doesn't seem to reward good shots.
I agree 2K does not give you access to the number if shot types like EA... but then there is seldom any advantage in using what is available in EA. You can easily navigate the course with 6 of the 20 shot types (Drive, Approach, Finesse, Spinner, Flop, Pick). I'm going by memory so forgive me if I get some of them wrong. The flop and pick shots make getting up and down around the green a ridiculously simple process.
Lag putting is also ridiculously easy in EA, once you understand the slope meter.
Both games in my opinion suffer with the swing mechanics... where you can set your distance with the reticule. It is literally point and shoot... except with EA the result is so random there is no guarantee it will end up where you targeted your shot even if you made great execution. But in 2K favor they do let you disable the reticule allowing to make it a little more realistic... in my case in 2K I control distance with loft.
Distance should be controlled by loft, swing length and swing speed. It is simple physics... "time to complete the swing of the club x velocity (how fast the club is moving)" plus factoring in the launch angle of the ball.
Which is why I don't like 2K's concept of where every shot is pretty much a full shot. Patrial shots are near impossible... In 2K there is one swing speed, where in my real golf game I have multiples... a more nuanced one for pitching and chipping.... and my full swing.
EA have in my mind taken a better approach as they took a more neutral approach with a awing speed somewhere inbetween.
As I said the ball physics are much better in 2K... it is important in 2K where your ball ends up. If you are above the green in the rough where it is sloping away from you. Stopping the ball will not be easy. In EA a flop shot will stick from anywhere. At least 2K will reduce the spin of a shot coming out of rough... this is not the case with EA.
I play 2K with all aids off except wind direction/meter and the green grid. The only thing showing on my screen is the hole information in the upper left corner and scorecard. I can easily shoot over par if I am not careful.
I try to do the same with EA but the game limits what can be disabled... I can honestly say I can only ever remember shooting over par once. On their SIM presets I usually average a round of -5.
I have shot numerous rounds in EA in the 50's... this has only happened to me 3 times in 2K over all the years I have played the game.
In the 3 months I have played EA, I have 6 hole in ones... and 2 double eagles. In the 9 years I played The Golf Club/2K PGA I had...
The Golf Club - 1 hole in one
The Golf Club 2 - nada
The Golf Club 2019 - 1 hole in one
2K21 - 2 hole in one and 1 double eagle
2K23 - 3 hole in one and 1 double eagle
Finally I agree about the rough, at least 2K has some. I don't think either company executed this facet of thr game very well. But it was shocking to me the lack of punishment in EA considering you can set multiple length of cut for the rough.
Sorry for the extended length of the post. To end... I like EA, but it is truly lacking. 2K for me provides a much better golfing experience... but currently I'm finding I am not playing either game. Both games have enough issues that neither holds my interest. I am no longer willing to buy into 2K's ridiculously fast swing speeds, and I am tired of shooting low scores in EA's Mario Golf game.
I'm just waiting and hoping either EA or 2K will make some changes to make their games play better. Or that a third-party comes along and wows me.
People are missing the point about this game and realism. It doesnt matter how many shot types you have etc. The visuals etc dont make the game realistic.
Its the gameplay that makes the game realistic.
This game has ridiculous AI. Its ported straight from Rory golf and got exactly the same problems that ruined that game.
The gameplay and AI determines realism.
I too have been playing since leaderboard days.
The finest use of AI in any golf game is in British open championship golf from 1998. That has AI and realism that blow any golf game made since out of the water.
That game was brutally difficult and flopped.
Todays gamers dont want realism. They want stunning visuals. They equate stunning visuals with a stunning game.
This golf game can never be anything other than total garbage as EA will never fix the AI. I remember exactly the same debates with Rory golf.
EA were flooded with demands for the AI to be repaired and the game to be made realistic. EA did absolutely nothing.
And that is what they will do here.
This game will never be made playable for those that want realism.
EA have even broken the mods that did make the ai better. Just as they do with fifa.
Forget the cosmetics. They do not make a game realistic.
If you want a realistic golf game then you wont find one at present. It is unlikely that we will ever see a realistic game again.
The majority do not want a realistic game. They just want fancy visuals and to win without trying and thinking.
Thats what they have.
I wont be playing this rubbish again. I wont be renewing my subscription.
@Choochoomama71I agree with you. The only thing I said was that the scores on the leadboard are not terrible.
I never play with the AI enabled, not sure why anyone would want to double the time to play a round of golf when the experience is not very realistic or competitive.
As you mentioned I believe a lot of the issue is how unrealistic the game plays. They made it accessible to the masses, but have not served the needs of who I believe would be their most important demographic. The people who actually play and have more than just a passing understanding of the game. And for those that don't play, this could have been used as a teaching experience as you mastered the game.
I think the rhetoric that was advertised was promising, it just feels like very little of it has been included in the game to this point.
I'm just hoping that at some point the game will represent what was promoted.
I would support adding a setting or difficulty level called British Open Championship Golf for gamers who want a challenge. To supplement for single player non-competitive modes, adding sliders would also make sense. I prefer them to be options because I would not want the British Open Difficulty imposed on amateur and less experienced players like me. I prefer to play the boring golf instead of curse at the TV screen playing this game more than watching the Bills lose to the Bengals. Different strokes for different folks. That’s why more options and choices make more sense.
@ELF014 The British Open Championship Golf mode is inspired from a post from another user. @Choochoomama71said that the 1998 game British Open Championship has the most difficult AI.
WWE 2K series, AEW Fight Forever and the EA UFC series has a practice mode where the AI is like a mannequin. I call it Barbie Mode because it is like my created superstar vs Barbie. That is almost similar to the way the AI plays in this game. I set the AI sliders to 25 so I don’t go against Barbie. But I do not set the sliders too high because I do not want to get crushed by Tiger
@Allan5858 wrote:
@ELF014IMHO golf is not a game to hurry, but should you want to then EA has provided you with the facilities to do so. Whether the the experience is realistic or not depends largely on how you perceive the game and how immersed you want to be.
I admit that there are things that need fixing in the game, but by and large it is a very good game and beautifully presented.
I fully agree with you that golf is a game to be experienced where the journey should be better than the destination.
And that the presentation of the game overall is not terrible.
My issue with the game is with it's lack of features, the play mechanics and ball physics. Even at the most difficult settings there is not much challenge in the game.
Golf in real life is a game relatively easy to play, and difficult to master. I fully understand having a game to allow people to score better than the pros. But how about being inclusive and include settings for those wanting a more realistic experience. And to do it without an exaggerated RNG parameter to create artificial difficulty. I am all for a reasonable amount for variety in shot patterns, but it should not be used as a method to increase difficulty in a game.
This is okay when playing on-line with friends, ONLY because we are playing in the same environment... (but are we, since we cannot lockdown specific settings in a private match). But the game plays far too easy, to make it challenging... you walk through shots rather than having to work through them.
I'm just hoping for a more difficult but fair challenge with a future patch.
Dream on.
I absolutely guarantee that EA will never do a thing to make the ai and scoring more realistic.
Why would they break habits of a lifetime!
