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Anonymous's avatar
Anonymous
10 years ago

A deep Chomper discussion

Hi. Recently i have heard that Chomper is bad character. While i agree for the most, before you jump into conclusion i want to tell you my little experience with this character.

I was an Ice Rose player post-beta cause i really liked her, but after the nerf honestly she wasn't even playable without getting frustrated.
The most thing that frustrated me, wasn't even the character itself, to be fair, but the incredible amount of QQ and hypocrisy of the community, that just for his own selfish personal attitude towards that character, just called the Nerf Hammer, before even thinking that, even back when she was incredible Op, she had some flaws.
The max amount of hypocrisy was when, post patch was considered "fine", when in the end, she was even so less weaker compared to her beta (when she was considered underpowered to be more specific):
I couldn't handle the situation because i thought that the game was a complete MESS with little floating scrub with 75hp, scientists juking you with warps, and team of S.Brainz destroying everything (not to mention the Gundams). I was used to lost at least 80-90% of games as a plant, and i had no clue why.

I left the game for 1 month, but just for curiosity, after 1 month i turned back to play it again.
I joined the first match and plants won, and continued to won. They still was a little bit weaker, but the situation was much more manageable. I was a little bit impressed, so i asked in my friend list what exactly was happening.
One of my favorite friend told me : "Now Default Citrons and Fire/Armor Chomper are meta"
I was a little bit skeptical about this and so i asked how they could be meta in this horrible situation:
"They are enough tank to resist Scientists burst, they have CC to stop Imp and way to deal with their hitbox, stop S.Brainz Turbo Twist, and they're a solution to Mechs".
Since i experience this drastic change with my eyes, this made me think a little to the current plant problem situation.
I came into the conclusion  that fitting your teamcomp is necessary to win, and i still remember, the first week post-patch, half of the team was essentialy made by Corns and Roses. I guess that people were trying to see Corn's improvement and what's their problem with Roses (since most of community just called every Rose player an unskilled, when, speaking the truth, if being a support justify her weak state, why isn't even easy to play? Rose is pointless to play. When you're good at Rose, and same for sunflower, you can just play a Damage dealer like Corn and Peashooter and be more proficient, so isn't even a good character to get carryed when you're a newbie. but this is another story).
So... suddenly running Chompers and Citrons was the key of victory.. or should i say.. to have a small chance of victory.

My point of view on Chomper,is, despite the fact i have never seen Chompers appearing frequently with most of kills / assist or in top of scoreboard, actually Chompers (together with default Citron) increased Plant team chance to win.
Same thing that no-one take into consideration when playing Chomper is the power of Goop. Maybe you underestimate this skill because, if you can't take down the gooped target since he's in a danger position, you'll just end up with an assist. But actually a goop, or empowered goop is usually a sure kill (that take one of your allies).
Armor Chomper was one of the few characters that could have some chance to deal with pre-nerf zoologistt and 1vs1 a mech. And Fire Chomper can really overlook imps strenght and exploit his point of force, i mean, the small-hitbox hard to aim is not a problem at all for fire chomper.

After all these deep thought i asked myself: "why Chomper, despite being actually a good supportive teamworker, is just not attractive to play?
So i think this is the list of things that are the moment are shadowning his true potential, are mostly a sort of things that are not inside his kit (goop-burrow-spikeweed) :

- two digest upgrade, even if they are extremely good, just force every single player to pick them, they are mandatory for the Chomper kit, they are not alternative choices like Ammo or Reload, when, in the end of day, you can play your character even without those. This make the player unable to have some strategic choice (damage, overheat, hpregen)

- before the first digest upgrade the class is just extremely bad to play, and i usually play it in garden ops

-And the most important point. There's no reason to pick any chomper besides Fire and Metal,  as Metal outclass almost every other Bite chompers and Fire those breathe chompers.

Instead of buffing Toxic and Electro to a point they just end up doing the same damage of Fire Chomper, why not just making every Chompers with "unique" playstile with well-thoughts buffs?

This is the list of things that came into my mind to make them worthful to be played:

- a single digest upgrade that works as the same as both of them.

Breathe Chompers

- Fire Chomper . Almost fine. Bad overheat compared to others but stronger in 1vs1. Maybe a very slighly reduced overheat (maybe the first upgrade suggestion will make him enough viable)

- Electric Chomper. He has less damage, but the reduced overheat make him at least viable compared to Fire. SInce his 1vs1 potential is quite less to his counterpart, i suggest to increase the arc damage to make it actually noticeable, in the way he can become a strong graveyard cleaner in herbaul assault

- Chomp Thing. +25 Hp + 1 Damage.

- Toxic Chomper: +25 health. Noticeable Breathe Range Increased. Since the poison can't compete with Fire 1vs1 potential and Electric Aoe Damage i suggest to make him a little bit tankier and giving him more range. ( i thought the same as Little Drake Mech, he will be the perfect chomper when you want to troll your enemies)

Bite Chompers

- Armor Chomper. Mostly fine. I suggest to make his personal HpUpgrade granting him 15Hp instead of 11Hp

- Chomper. Bite Damage 25 -> 30. Decreased digestion time. Default Chomper is outclassed almost by every chomper. Made him digest people very soon can make him viable

- UniChomper. Mostly fine due to his unique playstile. What is make him too hard to play is the slow animation when swalloing people from behind. Swalloing people from behind should be also more rewarded, since it's harder compared to eating people from Burrow. My suggest: Make Swallow from behind animation incredible fast

- Hot Rod. Also this is mostly fine due to his unique playstile. My suggestion is make both swallowing from behind and from burrow animations very quickly.

- Disco Chomper: Make his legendary bar fills with bites (a lots of them, to make him not op) but mostly fine.

- Count Chompula: Mostly fine but i think his bites should have life leech (suggestion: every bite make him regen 10Hp)

Other Type
Yeti: this is actually a good Chomper design (a chomper with a ranged attack), however, the ranged attack arc is just to hard to use for the average player. So my suggestion is to make him easier for everyone, almost like an enginner one

9 Replies

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    10 years ago
    My favorite is hot rod chomper. I use two speed upgrades and the health upgrade. He's so fast, I run circles around everyone. Goop is great for stopping anyone trying to get away. Spike weed for super brainz, pirate canon and engineer big bolt blaster. I got 46 vanquish master yesterday with him on the moon
  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    10 years ago

    I totally agree with you, while things are a little better for the Chomper since last patch I do think a few of the variants could use a little help.  I especially think that Thing Chomper, Toxic Chomper, and electro chomper need the most help.

    Also your point about digestion upgrade is spot on.  All chompers are forced to take digestion upgrades with the exception of maybe Yeti chomper.  There is no diversity in the class, just digestion upgrades.

    I am very grateful for the camera fix though in the last patch.  That has made a huge difference in my burrow/swallow.

    awesome post I can tell you put a lot of time and thought into it.

  • I actually like the Chompers and don't think they are bad at all.  Not sure why people think the electric chomper is bad.  I always thought it was one of the more powerful variants.  It's great for taking out imps and scientists that get anywhere in range and is excellent at crowd control.

    I've actually stopped burrow/eating zombies as much because you're just asking to die when you do.  But the biggest change I've made is to use the very under-rated goop cannon.  Once I got used to it, it's such a fun and useful weapon.  They just need to get rid of the extra long delay that happens when shooting it.

    There's nothing more satisfying than shooting the cannon across the map and killing a pirate that's sniping!  It doesn't happen very often, but it's a great feeling when it does.   It will also one-shot imps (if you can hit them) and severely damage most other zombies, softening them for an easy kill.

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    10 years ago

    @homerd0h wrote:

    I actually like the Chompers and don't think they are bad at all.  Not sure why people think the electric chomper is bad.  I always thought it was one of the more powerful variants.  It's great for taking out imps and scientists that get anywhere in range and is excellent at crowd control.

    I've actually stopped burrow/eating zombies as much because you're just asking to die when you do.  But the biggest change I've made is to use the very under-rated goop cannon.  Once I got used to it, it's such a fun and useful weapon.  They just need to get rid of the extra long delay that happens when shooting it.

    There's nothing more satisfying than shooting the cannon across the map and killing a pirate that's sniping!  It doesn't happen very often, but it's a great feeling when it does.   It will also one-shot imps (if you can hit them) and severely damage most other zombies, softening them for an easy kill.


    I think the problem with electric variant is that fire (in my opinion) is better in almost any situation.  He does better damage and has a good spray radius.

    I have never used chomp cannon after hearing all the horror stories but I will have to give it a show, I really like using the goop that freezes the zombies in place.

    And yeah I almost always use burrow as an escape tool now.

  • That I always hated about chomper is how you're just a sitting duck against someone that just camp somewhere high. You only thing you can attempt to goop and hope for a teammate to shoot them during it. If no teammate are nowhere near to help you,rip.

    Outside of that,I still think spikeweed and goop in general could use a cooldown buff, sticky goop didn't deserved this nerf.

    And I guess I need the digestion upgrade eventually too.

    And yeah, chomper a good counter to imp and superbrain while armor chomper is the only plant that have a chance against a scientist in close range.

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    10 years ago
    Hahaha I also see goop as a form of supporting your team. It might even be more effective than both of rose's disruptive abilities.

    As for those changes, only ones I can agree on are increasing power chomper's arcs and making swallowing from behind faster. At this point, I feel like the slightest change to a character can make the game a mess again.

    Also, there needs to be a easier way to differentiate eating from biting/spraying. I hate swallowing zombies when my only intend is to bite them. Even sometimes I have eating from the front. Wtf!??
  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    10 years ago

    Don't you like the Toxic Chomper change? What do u think? op?

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    10 years ago
    Not op, but unnecessary. His toxic aura gets a nice range and damage boost after the toxic upgrade, which makes him good for protecting gardens from spawnable zombies even when you don't know where they are.

    Also, to compensate for his relative low damage output, I normally equip the standard goop. While the enemy is gooped, lay a spike weed on their feet, and spray them; first spray the ground, keep holding the trigger, and aim towards your opponent. This way you do 75 damage from the goop and spikeweed alone, then you just finish them with your toxicity. I normally do this only on tanks.

    Maybe you don't have to do all this with fire chomper. But although he's not op, he does not follow the general rule of fire variants; low direct damage. Also, he deals one more point of fire damage than any other fire variant.

    If you were to bring chompers in pair, I think fire chomper would have to be nerfed. Hahaha you might be saying "what's wrong with you, chomper character is already bad and you wanna make one of his best variants as crappy as the others!?".

    Well, I think the real problem with chomper comes from swallowing. You just can't go melee on enemies because you might end up eating them, leaving you on a vulnerable state for too long. Even with spraying chompers, this sometimes happens. And even if you intend to eat them, the process is just so slow, that most of the is a suicidal move. Pop cap should prioritize this issue.

    Finally, I forgot to mention chomp thing. I totally agree on the damage buff. Not so sure about the health one. 😛

  •   I think of chompers as rogues the problem is after the kill they just sit around like a stuffed anaconda. They should be able to get in fast , get a kill , and get out.

    What I think would work best is after they use swallow they could use burrow again to escape but couldn't swallow another zombie till after the digestion cool down was reached to prevent abuse of the ability. Hp may need to be adjusting to compensate for the new survivability possibly.

    In the description chompers are described as hit and run  characters but as it stands now they can only hit they can't run. This leaving them nothing to do but go on suicide runs when large groups are present , which in a multiplayer game is all the time.

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