Balance: Both teams
I notice so many threads about plants being terrible or zombies being overpowered and yet there are also threads mentioning how the teams are damn near perfect balance. I personally believe the game ...
Forum Discussion
Peashooter: more or less agreed. Some variants need a buff.
Sunflower: Totally against you tooth-and-nail. I want a shotgun for Sunflower. I always see people saying "She's suppose to be support" as a defense for her sticking to her horrible primary. Well a shotgun would give her BETTER support. Picture a Scientist with Porcupine healing an All-Star, he gives no "ranged support" (put that in quotes because the Sunflower "ranged support" is the worst in the game, IMO) but gives close-range support, which is better because you need to be close to heal. Give the Scientist the Sunflowers primary and 10/10 times people will go in on him since it would be an easy kill.
For anyone doing well with Sunflower in the healing category, yeah, I guess it's easy enough to pull off, seeing as she CANNOT do anything else. "But she's suppose to heal." so does the Medic in TF2, but he can hold his own and actually fight back.
Chomper: Takes forever digestion and can be killed in the "eating animation". Sure you can't revive people after they died, but the timer to respawn is shorter if you are chomped. You also only get 1 kill out of Chomping someone, just to end up dying because you are now a huge, slow moving target that needs time to digest.
You mention he's an assassin, I would like to see him more as a Spy from TF2 (again making a comparison seeing as both games are team based shooter.). He's an assassin that can insta-kill back-to-back enemies without having that wait period of killing the last person(Zombie).
Cactus: Yes, she should have a way to get on rooftops as most classes can. I would also add that her recoil gets tweaked as well. IMO, it's easier to land shots as any other class then it is with Cactus.
Citron: I would also like if his shield took more punishment, it feels like it gets taken down FASTER then it takes putting up.
I'm fine with the damage, if the skill is to mimic an EMP, it shouldn't do any damage at all. I would like it if it actually shut-down the mech for much longer.
Don't have electric so can't say.
According to everyone, because I don't have, all Party skins are horrible now.
Corn: Is probably the best the plants have at the moment. If he would get a buff, it should be for his Pop's Corn skin. it does as much damage as his other skins (minus party?) but only shoots in bursts of 2.
Rose: Needs buffs. I did not play her pre-patch, but everyone is saying she was broken OP...wish I was able to see it, seeing as she is now broken unable to do anything.
Foot soldier: Agreed
Scientist: Variants need nerfs. At the moment, Porcupine's Revenge dominates, followed by Marine Biologist. He easily gets in your face with teleport and can place down healing stations for his allies so he can go in while healing.
All-Star: Is alright where he is, IMO. His Imp punt does seem to travel a shorter distance then in the first game though.
Engineer: Also fine where he is. His mines are for protection, mainly for his tele. Stun duration is also fine because, again, it's mainly for protection, not for offense. Big Bolt should be better then Pea Gatling and Sunbeam, it's a freaking turret. My only gripe with engi is that Frosty fan freezes way to soon, like 2- shots and you're frozen.
Deadbeard: Fine as is, except for Shark Lazer which does need a nerf in damage.
Super Brainz: Electric beam nerf, yes please. Also reduce the range of all his beam in general or make them do less damage. He's meant to be an up-close fighter not an up-close fighter AND ranged ADC.
Imps: I only play Gardens and Graveyards, so I would say that only 1 or 2 mechs should be able to cap.
Grav nade need less AoE.
Nerf health to 60. He's already a hard enough target to hit.
Z7, don't have, much want.
Thank for you for your constructive criticism and Happy Easter to you if you celebrate it.
Sunflower- Part of my main reasoning for the no shotgun is to try and keep the classes different on each side. I think a way for everyone to be somewhat happy is to create a Sunflower variant that has a shotgun attack. It could also be a trial and error so if PopCap considered it, this will be a trial and error to see how people like the variants attack. I thought of an ability similar to the Uber charge in Team Fortress. Instead of a heal, it links to a plant allowing no healing, but added health, protection and damage. Nothing to severe but something noticeable.
Chomper- I have seen instances in which the chomper seems immune very temportarily during the eating animation. I am uncertain if this is a glitch. Something I forgot to add was Chomper should stop Twister and Impkata when starting the chomp animation. Makes no sense why they remain spinning. Digestion upgrades for me have helped a bunch as chomper and there resides a lot of obstacles to hide behind. The Spy would be amazing to have but if it were instant kill, then I feel he might be too OP. Goop a group then destroy them all in seconds. The chewing is also a nod to the original PvZ tower defense game.
Cactus- The recoil is very true, even deadbeard has little to no recoil allowing for constant shots.
Citron- I like your idea more of no damage but stunning longer. When they were telling everyone of it, they called it the bane of Mechs which is outright a lie now.
Corn- I thought he did 3 burst shots? Maybe I am just bad at the corn lol.
Rose- Be thankful you weren't there. Her homing on moonbase could basically hit the zombies who were sniping far in the back and would curve builds. Teams consited of 8 roses and zombies could not leave their spawns.
Scientist- Agreed.
Super Brainz- I was hoping instead of a damaging ability he wold like pull someone towards him like a 4th move but have a hidden cooldown. But a Super Brainz beam wide weakening sounds good. Except toxic lol, his is bad.
Engineer- For Engineer, I just felt like he should have been more support this game as too accommodate for the plants having two support and zombies having basically all attackers.
Imp- Z7 is amazing, I think you can upgrade to deluxe for like 10 dollars and still get it.
I'll repost what I had up on a similar thread as it covers this too. Apologies and have a happy Easter.
QoL fixes:
- Add a/move the respawn barrier for Zombies on Herbal Assault maps (Moon Base Z, Zomburbia) on the first point so the Zombies cannot literally Spawn Camp
-Reduce effectiveness of Husk Hop on barreled Deadbeards (Seriously, why does that ignore the damage resist? He's firing bullets, not busting a bunker)
-Chomp IMMEDIATELY stops Turbo Twister or Impkata
-Fix the Burrow camera as well as its general usability
-Fix the wonky hitbox on the "Parrot Drone"
-Add new, varied animations for Cosmic Brainz's melee attacks. He REALLY shouldn't just have ONE animation for each stage of charge makes his attacks feel stale and static.
Peashooter:
Mostly fine. A few tweaks for a few Variants though.
-Buff the Commando pea's RoF or Damage. (see THIS thread for more in depth ideas)
-Buff the projectile speed for the Electro Pea so he's usable.
Sunflower:
-Slight hp buff?
-Buff the Alien Flower's damage, possibly the damage the spore clouds do.
Chomper:
-Increase burrow time slightly?
-Slight Damage resist when chewing.
-Burrow hides Chomper's icon from his enemies during and a few seconds after exiting.
-Make the Toxic Chomper usable! Buff his DPS at the very least. (or his damage aura)
-Chomp Thing could use some love in the DPS department for his Health.
-Give a light heal per bite for Chompula?
Cactus:
She doesn't need a bloody shotgun people! (Besides, you pretty much got that with the Petrified Cactus)
-Drastically increase needle damage to enemies at close ranges
-Lower the scope-in speed slightly (More dramatically so for the Camo Cactus)
-Increased needle travel speed so less Target leading
-Add a light damage resist ability under the tallnut slot for offensive purposes?
-Increase clip size for Camo Cactus or decrease her reload speed.
Kernel Corn:
-Increase move speed slightly.
-Reduce the damage or fire rate of the BBQ Corn - it should be a SIDEGRADE, not a straight upgrade from Stock.
-Increase functionality of the Mob Cob's penetrating shots. Make the Kernels explode in a light cone behind maybe?
Citron:
-Increase Peel Shield's effectiveness slightly
-Slight duration increase in the Orange/Frosty beams?
-Buff the damage of the Electro Citron's uncharged shots (Four damage is NOT okay)
Rose:
-Buff hp by 25 again
-Slightly increase homing at close ranges (Not necessary if she gets her HP back)
Scientist:
He's actually fine for the most part. He just seems terrifying because he wasn't used much in GW1 - and the current Superhero heavy meta lets him slip by because of all the confusion.
-Reduce the Zoologist's clip size by two. (Not entirely necessary, but I think he needs a little more added risk)
-Reduce the Marine Biologist's Fire Rate and Ammo Count
Imp:
Slightly increase the cooldown on the mech. (I'm not talking about duration - but the time before he can call one in)
Deadbeard:
-Make his hitbox a little more forgiving when targeting him. (I have no difficulty with shooting him, but some do)
-Nerf Captain Sharkbite's total ammo count, scoping speed, and reload speed. He shouldn't be able to play just as safe as Stock.
-Increase the ammo count of Flameface and Cpt. Cannon - buff the damage on both their hilariously bad close range attack variants.
-Increase functionality of Flameface's penetrate attack.
-Possibly make Cpt. Cannon feel a little less clunky by buffing his splash radius?
Super Brainz:
He should be a Melee focused character with a weak, supplementary ranged attack. Even Superheroes should have a weakness or two after all!
-Reduce Max HP to 175
-Reduce Damage/Duration of Super and Electro Brainz's beam. (possibly increase melee damage as a result)
-Reduce the Damage of Cosmic Brainz's "blaster" to 9 or 10, (reduced duration as well) increase uncharged fist damage, reduce time for charging fists.
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You provided a lot of interesting points, MrBays. I see a few of them as unnecessary, but I see where you're coming from on some of them.
Toxicologist/Physicist are variants you don't see too much - although I kinda have a soft spot for the Physicist. I think they perform their niches better in this game thanks to the engine, but they don't have much flair to them. Buffing them would probably be overkill, as much as I'd like them to see more use.
The Tennis Star's weakness is that his weapon overheats quickly. Not as much as the Hockey Star, but fairly quick. His arcing can be unusually precise at times and his damage also seems to suffer a bit more from falloff. As he's quicker than his kin, it'd be somewhat fair to see his max hp get reduced to 175, but it's not a necessity.
Personally, I think the new Engine did Imp Punt a lot of good. I seem to get more predictable/consistent results than in the first game - but yes, sometimes bizarre things can still happen.
No apologies needed. I am happy you responded and I find I agree with you on a lot of your statements. I know some things I put are a little unneeded but as I said, it was just a few things that I wished for people to add on too. No one man can make an entire game get fixed by himself. We all have a say and all would like different things. Sorry If I do not touch on everything. Easter and all lol
QoL
-Hell yes to your chomper stopping twister and impkata. It makes no sense.
-Can you explain to me the burrow camera issue. I dont think I see it.
Peashooter
-We shared the same views here.
Chomper
-For burrow, I dont mind normal burrow time but sprint burrow seems useless to me.
-Love the icon hiding idea, didnt think of that.
-I know they are trying to make Toxic weaker than fire but still viable as they are pretty much the same with fire being the better. I like the aura idea.
Cactus
-Thank you for agreeing on the shotgun
-Yes too damage increase up close
Kernel
-Penetrating shots seem so useless to me as hardly anyone is behind anyone ever.
Citron
-Pretty much the same thing but I think Citron should do more damage than Frost naturally and not the other way around.
Rose
-nooooooooooo lol
-I can accept a health increase.
Scientist
-Hasnt marine biologist always been the same? Even in the first one. He always hit like a truck it just seems like he can hit us easier now.
Deadbeard
-I disagree on the buffing of flameface as his burn damage is meant to make up for his low damage up close
-Havnet touched cap cannon much so I can't say but all the detonate variants seem bad.
Super Brainz
-I thought it would be cool if all Super brainz had a bar that was build up by melee attacking and that is the only time they can use ranged attacks is based on the bar filled.
Sorry the explanation is so short and not presented well, I am on my phone right now.
You're welcome~ and Happy Easter!
Sunflower: Some say that she should have a mech =D I like this idea~ As for the buffing beam, that would be...ok, once the game is balanced, Throwing that in now would probably break something :P Also, someone had an idea of Sunflower having the shotgun when un-zoomed and her "smg" while zoomed, would this work better?
Chomper: I have noticed this, though I feel as if it doesn't apply to me -_-
I don't have any of those upgrades for him because...well he's bad. (IMO)
If he were to duplicate how the Spy insta-kills, yeah, I can see that as OP. If only because of the goop. Otherwise, maybe not. Both have an "invis" of sort and a "back-stab". But then the Spy's ranged game is much better as for the Chompers close-up game bieng much better.
Goop seems bugged atm. I know he chews because of the classic PvZ, just to keep him doing it for so long in a "Warfare" type game instead of a "tower defense" seems a bit off.
Corn: Only played as that variant once, seemed he just shot once per arm :P
Rose: That sounds to good to be true. I WANT to see that happening, especially now with the Zombies dominating.
Engi: Feels like a support to me. Maybe tone down his ranged damage?
Imp: I know I could get it that way, but I'm not to keen on DLC when the game was released not to long ago. If that's the only way to get Z7, then ya dun *** it up Popcap!
Ok Sunflower should have more health than a Scientist because she's a walking critical hit and a much easier target to shoot. A Shotgun won't help her in anyway, because she doesn't have the utility to use it effectively. What she needs is a mobile Sunbeam which she can use for attacking purposes in Herbal Assault and to protect herself when she wants to revive someone and a dangerous Zombie is coming towards her. That's the burst DPS she needs for protection.
Chomper can easily do with damage reduction as he's noming on someone. Chomp thing is so sad, he looks amazing but he has 125 health and deals pitiful damage for a spraying Chomper, he needs abit of love. I mean I could understand him being low health if he was the Agent Pea of Chompers, but he clearly isn't.
Scientist is OP and that's where I get my fix when I just want to decimate everything. People say Chomper can kill people and make it so they are unrevivable and that makes him balanced, well a Scientist can warp into a unsuspecting group of plants usually with a Sunflower healing them and kill the whole group while healing himself mind you and no one is going to be able to revive the 3+ Plants that fall victim to that. No Plant or Zombie can match his DPS and it's very easy to get in on people, he should receive a damage nerf imo.
@KnowsNoLimit wrote:Ok Sunflower should have more health than a Scientist because she's a walking critical hit and a much easier target to shoot. A Shotgun won't help her in anyway, because she doesn't have the utility to use it effectively. What she needs is a mobile Sunbeam which she can use for attacking purposes in Herbal Assault and to protect herself when she wants to revive someone and a dangerous Zombie is coming towards her. That's the burst DPS she needs for protection.
Chomper can easily do with damage reduction as he's noming on someone. Chomp thing is so sad, he looks amazing but he has 125 health and deals pitiful damage for a spraying Chomper, he needs abit of love. I mean I could understand him being low health if he was the Agent Pea of Chompers, but he clearly isn't.
Scientist is OP and that's where I get my fix when I just want to decimate everything. People say Chomper can kill people and make it so they are unrevivable and that makes him balanced, well a Scientist can warp into a unsuspecting group of plants usually with a Sunflower healing them and kill the whole group while healing himself mind you and no one is going to be able to revive the 3+ Plants that fall victim to that. No Plant or Zombie can match his DPS and it's very easy to get in on people, he should receive a damage nerf imo.
I am really against the movable sunbeam as it does so much damage being able to move would be OP. But I am not against trying to find an in between and give her something similar in the face of a new ability. Maybe instead of Sunbeam it can be 'Sun Burst' In this mode give it so many shots that deal damage up close. This can help with peoples shotgun want and give her good burst damage.
Poor Chomp thing. Everyone should take a moment.
It is dependent on what scientist it is but the goal is for the team to pick the moff before the yget too close. Cacti, Peashooter and Citron should help to destroy them from afar preventing decimation.
Sunflower: Both the Mech and the Shotgun I feel would resemble too much of deadbeard and Imp. It would take anyway from classes being unique and enjoying a different experience when playing a different team. I am sure Mech Sunflower would be fun and clever but I personally would get bored if the characters seemed a little similar. Another method would be too slow down sunflower fire rate but increase damage? Increasing damage with her accuracy and fire rate would be too strong.
Chomper: I was having issues with Rainbow Chomper until he got the two digestion upgrades and I feel like he is on par with Chester Cheetoh from the old game. I can't remember who Isaw put it, maybe it was Zaheen or someone else but they asked for chew time and being related too the characters they eat. So if yo ueat an Imp, make it like a second chew, doctor, Engineer, Soldier 2-3 seconds. Allstar or Brainz, the normal 4-5. Or make it to where one of the goops make chewing shorter.
Corn: My wife for some reason loves him....even though she sucks as him. I believe he is like a sniper variant. Similar to Agent Pea.
Rose: It was bad. So many people returned the game and they lost a lot of fans.
Engi: That could work. Because it does the same damage no matter how far it is. It also does more AoE damage than the Peashooter.
Imp: Originally it was a preorder bonus so I preordered instantly hoping to brag that I had it....then they gave it to everyone else. I was sad lol. But I have my Unicorn Chomper.
