Balance: Both teams
I notice so many threads about plants being terrible or zombies being overpowered and yet there are also threads mentioning how the teams are damn near perfect balance. I personally believe the game ...
Forum Discussion
Need to ask, are you on the PC? Even IF some variants of Sunflower got a Shotgun, she would need a movement speed boost of 200%, or a warp like ability in order to pull it off. Or once again she is just going to be a sitting duck defensive character where the Scientist always gets the jump.
Things on a console are slightly different, by the time you've turned around you're dead. There's no way you can outgun a Scientist unless he's at range, and he's walking in a straight line towards you, which requires you to be trailing way behind your team mates like a lost little child looking for their parents. No use at all.
Damn, you're spamming out your own thread! 😉
Cactus, Rose and Sunflower should all get a Shotgun if you ask me.
- Cactus is too vulnerable against close players.
- Rose no longer has a reason to use her zoom, she's bad anyway.
- Sunflower has no CC, she should have an insta kill Shotgun so nobody goes near her.
I am just trying to respond to everyone on the thread who is speaking to me. If I am asking for peoples opinions it is the respectful.thing to do; acknowledging them.
Btw, I play on the console and can easily follow a scientist trail with a sunflower and either kill them or damage them enough to where my team finishes it.
Three plants all with the ability to decimate anything up close? That would have everyone playing as plants as they would heavily obliterate the zombies. Especially if sunflower got an insta kill one. Sunflower would then just be the scientist and now the healers on each team are no longer unique.
Two rose variants have incredible charge abilities that hit you right away if up close. One that does 70+ and another that freezes you instantly. I believe a shotgun on these two would break her again.
Cactus I think should much stronger attacks if you manage to hit someone at pointblank range. It will increase skill cap and keep his attack different than dead beard.
Btw, I play on the console and can easily follow a scientist trail with a sunflower and either kill them or damage them enough to where my team finishes it.
Three plants all with the ability to decimate anything up close? That would have everyone playing as plants as they would heavily obliterate the zombies. Especially if sunflower got an insta kill one. Sunflower would then just be the scientist and now the healers on each team are no longer unique.
Two rose variants have incredible charge abilities that hit you right away if up close. One that does 70+ and another that freezes you instantly. I believe a shotgun on these two would break her again.
Cactus I think should much stronger attacks if you manage to hit someone at pointblank range. It will increase skill cap and keep his attack different than dead beard.
To everyone saying that Plants mechs would be a bad idea because it would be a copy of Imp (even though Mechs are the coolest thing in the game), I have a better(ish) idea.
Sunflower only "mechs" --> "Mechs" are now Sunflower Queens. :D
Also the Sunflower "mechs" would be strictly support and or defense, not offense like Imp's so in that sense would be different.
To everyone saying it would be a bad idea for Sunflower to have a Shotgun because of copy of Deadbeard or whoever else. Someone else had this idea which I'm in total favor of since it caters to all.
Sunflower zoom --> her normal "smg" primary
Sunflower un-zoom --> Shotgun.
Yeah it would be the same concept of Deadbeard, but her ranged is still way weaker then his and her shotgun (IMO) should be stronger then his.
@Zenopo wrote:To everyone saying that Plants mechs would be a bad idea because it would be a copy of Imp (even though Mechs are the coolest thing in the game), I have a better(ish) idea.
Sunflower only "mechs" --> "Mechs" are now Sunflower Queens. :D
Also the Sunflower "mechs" would be strictly support and or defense, not offense like Imp's so in that sense would be different.
To everyone saying it would be a bad idea for Sunflower to have a Shotgun because of copy of Deadbeard or whoever else. Someone else had this idea which I'm in total favor of since it caters to all.
Sunflower zoom --> her normal "smg" primary
Sunflower un-zoom --> Shotgun.
Yeah it would be the same concept of Deadbeard, but her ranged is still way weaker then his and her shotgun (IMO) should be stronger then his.
As stated before, I think it is about keeping the teams unique and not make them too similar taking away from having a different experience each team. In a sense it would be different but in a wider view, pretty much the same thing.
But it doesn't cater too all especially seeing as how myself and many others would heavily dislike this ability. She has been the same since GW1 and she was perfectly fine in that game. I saw a a Sunflower get every accolade in one match and have never seen anyone else get that since. Take note the game has been out for a month so it takes time to bend your strategy to the new characters.
@JarlAdalbert wrote:As stated before, I think it is about keeping the teams unique and not make them too similar taking away from having a different experience each team. In a sense it would be different but in a wider view, pretty much the same thing.
But it doesn't cater too all especially seeing as how myself and many others would heavily dislike this ability. She has been the same since GW1 and she was perfectly fine in that game. I saw a a Sunflower get every accolade in one match and have never seen anyone else get that since. Take note the game has been out for a month so it takes time to bend your strategy to the new characters.
But what's more unique then "mechs"? No 2 mechs the Imp has plays the same...expect for maybe the Z7 and the Stock mech?Plus if we are going to talk about "uniqueness" Sunbeam, Pea Gatling, Big Bolt Blaster and Cannon Rodeo, are all virtually the same ability. Replacing the Sunbeam for a "mech" would just be "coping" 1 other skill in the game. So it would be much more unique in that regard. Especially if they go with her turning into a Sunflower Queen, since that would be non-mechanical which is unique to the Zombies.
I only say it caters to all because people who want the shotgun, gets it and people who don't want the shotgun, doesn't have to use it...I'm in favor of shotgun all all-round and ditch the "smg" altogether.
She was "decent" in GW1, before the changes to some characters, the new characters and new variants became a thing in GW2, while she was left un-touched. So now she's in the dirt, left behind by everyone else who is on another level.
Something as small as a immobile ability being similar is annoying yes and I am not a fan of big bolt blaster and they tried making cannon rodeo different. However, taking something like the mech and just tossing it into plants for the main reason of 'Well the zombies have it' is not bringing balance in my opinion. Especially given to the Sunflower. What I believe will happen is a new class in general will be given to both teams hence the open spot in the backyards. This new class could be similar to a mech or something even better.
But what about the people who wish to keep their smg even though someone has gotten too close. Staying zoomed in would be a huge inconvenience.Ditching the SMG would then have you with a second scientist. Once again I think it is a matter of redirecting strategy. She isn't meant to do much damage. Maybe I am biased because my wife is really good with Sunflower. I see her have no issues but she has always played them.
@Zenopo wrote:
Sunflower zoom --> her normal "smg" primary
Sunflower un-zoom --> Shotgun.
Really not in favour of that one. That means you can't strafe and shoot at range, which would be a major downside and simply get you killed more. Sunflowers need their mobility.
BTW Just finished yet another game as fire flower with vanquish master, heal master, revive master. Same as GW1 she can already be beastly in the right hands (i've done all boasts in one game, once I might add, with her)
@JarlAdalbert wrote:Something as small as a immobile ability being similar is annoying yes and I am not a fan of big bolt blaster and they tried making cannon rodeo different. However, taking something like the mech and just tossing it into plants for the main reason of 'Well the zombies have it' is not bringing balance in my opinion. Especially given to the Sunflower. What I believe will happen is a new class in general will be given to both teams hence the open spot in the backyards. This new class could be similar to a mech or something even better.
But what about the people who wish to keep their smg even though someone has gotten too close. Staying zoomed in would be a huge inconvenience.Ditching the SMG would then have you with a second scientist. Once again I think it is a matter of redirecting strategy. She isn't meant to do much damage. Maybe I am biased because my wife is really good with Sunflower. I see her have no issues but she has always played them.
Well there's no other skill, atm, that is unique enough to give to the plants so there would be less "copycat" abilities. If someone can think of something to give to Sunflower (talking aboiut Sunflower a lot because she's at the bottom of the Plants barrel.) that isn't a "mech", or a shield, then I'm all ears.
....I don't see an issue with this. "Someone got to close, wish I had the SMG instead of a Shotgun." What?! That's like saying; "Someone is to far away from me, wish I had an SMG instead of a Sniper."...
If I am to come to a compromise with people wanted the smg that badly, then give the shotgun to the two new variants of the Sunflower. Here is why those 2 would be the best choices;
Vampire: Convert a portion of damage dealt as health, her smg does horrible damage, so you get barely any health back. (Also pretty sure the life leech doesn't trigger unless you are not under attack, which is stupid seeing as that when you WANT it to work.) With a shotgun, she would do considerable damage, making the health she gets back, better.
Stuffy: Killing Zombies with her SMG makes healing sundrops appear. Again, her damage is horrible, odds are she is not killing any Zombies. Give her a shotgun and she would actually be able to get kills and get the healing sundrops to drop.
And honestly, the way those 2 variants are now, is not "supportive" in the least. IMO, Fire Flower and Metal Petal are the only support variants the Sunflower has.
Do you play with a controller, or a keyboard and mouse? That's what I wanted to ask. See for me, being ex PC and not playing a console since my N64 I'm not as good with a controller as I am with a keyboard and mouse. I also find it amusing when you're able to follow a Scientist trail, even when he warps behind you and pops you in the rear? What the Scientist has now makes him more OP than a Chomper.
Also, I can't believe you just went there with Ice/Fire Rose, she doesn't freeze instantly anymore. Going to simply ignore that because they are absolutely horrible. Scientist can hit for 70 around 3-4 times before she can charge up ONE shot that hits the same, and hers is so slow and easy to dodge...
Interesting idea about the Cactus, but I'd still prefer a Shotgun so I don't need to aim. You won't have time to turn around and zoom, you barely even have time to turn around, but if you hip fire a Shotgun you might get a shot or two off before you get creamed and well that's better than nothing 🙂
PC as well I take it? Using a keyboard and mouse really changes my perception on balance ideas, but I'm using a controller and that's why I'm suggesting Shotguns for both sides.
If you won every boast with Fire Flower, including First Strike then well played. I bet you wouldn't be able to do that on console though 🙂
See, that's where our opinions will differ, I doubt you'll ever play shooters with a controller and if you did, you'd feel the same in terms of balance. There's a lot more you can do with Sunflower when being able to aim and point anywhere on the map instantly, she requires pinpoint accuracy and lead shots that is much more easily done with a mouse as opposed to an analogue stick. It's why I prefer Chomper, and why I hate Cactus. If I plug in a keyboard and mouse then Cactus makes me feel like I'm cheating.
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Didn't mean to double post, having an issue with loading new pages and well, using my iPad so not gunna bother copying and pasting it into one.
Part of me feels like forums should be split up for PC and Consoles, and to be honest the versions of the game should be slightly different in terms of balance. You're probably sat there scratching your head at some of my posts too, as I am with yours. I'm not ever going to agree with any PC gamer in terms of balance for a console, you do realise that right?
- I am a console player and both of know how me and you disagree on everything lol. Especially since I have seen a fire flower win every boast on the Xbox. Now with the shared vanquish existing, sunflowers can accumulate many kills if they tries even though they should be healing.
There's been many occasions where I have added my controller to my laptop because it felt more comfortable during shooters and I still dis well. I understand that the mouse can add a bit of an easy mode but its not drastic.
Something we do agree on his splitting the forums.
@Zaheen1337 wrote:
PC as well I take it? Using a keyboard and mouse really changes my perception on balance ideas, but I'm using a controller and that's why I'm suggesting Shotguns for both sides.
If you won every boast with Fire Flower, including First Strike then well played. I bet you wouldn't be able to do that on console though 🙂
Nope, I'm on PS4. Although I played the original GW1 on Xbox 360, before I got it again on PS4. My PC days are over.
@Zaheen1337 wrote:
See, that's where our opinions will differ, I doubt you'll ever play shooters with a controller and if you did, you'd feel the same in terms of balance. There's a lot more you can do with Sunflower when being able to aim and point anywhere on the map instantly, she requires pinpoint accuracy and lead shots that is much more easily done with a mouse as opposed to an analogue stick. It's why I prefer Chomper, and why I hate Cactus. If I plug in a keyboard and mouse then Cactus makes me feel like I'm cheating.
I did tried to play GW1 with a controller for a bit. Kinda made me understood why foot soldier weren't as common in console. It also generally made using abilities way moar important. I also saw how silly was the aim assist with scientist. and how chomper was pretty much the same.
Maybe I could try that again in GW2,but I would be clearly in disadvantage in here too.
@Boolerex wrote:
@Zaheen1337 wrote:See, that's where our opinions will differ, I doubt you'll ever play shooters with a controller and if you did, you'd feel the same in terms of balance. There's a lot more you can do with Sunflower when being able to aim and point anywhere on the map instantly, she requires pinpoint accuracy and lead shots that is much more easily done with a mouse as opposed to an analogue stick. It's why I prefer Chomper, and why I hate Cactus. If I plug in a keyboard and mouse then Cactus makes me feel like I'm cheating.
I did tried to play GW1 with a controller for a bit. Kinda made me understood why foot soldier weren't as common in console. It also generally made using abilities way moar important. I also saw how silly was the aim assist with scientist. and how chomper was pretty much the same.
Maybe I could try that again in GW2,but I would be clearly in disadvantage in here too.
Main reason why I would like a working aim-assist in GW2 for console. It's also because of this I like using the broken characters like Electro Brainz, I don't have to be accurate to get kills, just wave the stick left and right in a general direction of where the action is at and you're bound to pick up some kills.
(I have GW1 on PC and GW2 on console.)
- Going off topic still lol. Anyone have any more ideas on how to balance this game?
@JarlAdalbert wrote:
Going off topic still lol. Anyone have any more ideas on how to balance this game?Give the Cactus cute skins like the Sunflower?
@Zenopo wrote:
@JarlAdalbert wrote:
Going off topic still lol. Anyone have any more ideas on how to balance this game?Give the Cactus cute skins like the Sunflower?
Lol, that would be fun. I think the character items can use some love because a lot of them are kinda underwhelming and the constant, normal, silver, gold, diamond, gem is really annoying. Why do I need five versions of an item I don't even like? I saw a new thread about Mech health and it was growing very hostile slowly so what do you think about the health. This thread seems more refined. I liek the Mechs where they are at.
I was also wondering why I keep on getting different variations of the same item, but then it came to me...EA.
decreasing super brainz jump to match rose jump would be good, idk why he has a extra soldier skill as a passive...
@Vinimon18 wrote:decreasing super brainz jump to match rose jump would be good, idk why he has a extra soldier skill as a passive...
I wouldn't mind the jumping as much if the beam was not so powerful. Why should that beam be so powerful and allow them easy access to the highest points in any map with no effort.
@JarlAdalbert wrote:
@Vinimon18 wrote:decreasing super brainz jump to match rose jump would be good, idk why he has a extra soldier skill as a passive...
I wouldn't mind the jumping as much if the beam was not so powerful. Why should that beam be so powerful and allow them easy access to the highest points in any map with no effort.
Yeah, give that shiz to the Cactus!
