Balance MegaThread Discussion. Minor Changes
This is my balanced Megathread Discussion. Minor Changes topic 2.0
My Rules
- My believing is that sometimes, the smallest of changes can make the game very balanced and enjoyable. I don't like when a nerf just force you to not pick that class because it's unplayable or it's end up that has become a 4fun class. Balance mean a class should still have the same strenght but being more weaker, in the way he gives you more chance of counterplay, the class should fits perfectly his original game concept.
And this is what i believe because, after my Frost Rose got nerfed, i understood how bad is when your favorite class got nerfed to the ground only because the majority of peoples doesn't know how to counterpick or play against a class, or just ask nerf because they found playing against that character "boring" and "annoying". Annoying doesn't necessarily means a class is op. Just annoying, a class tha frustrate you. This is a little bit tricky, but if you have experience in Mobas you'll understand that.
- No crybaby. If you come here to spam "omg that is op, nerf plz ,i dnt want ppl pick that bcs i cnt topscorebrd eggsdi eggsdi" gtfo from here.. scrub.
- If your name is Zaheen, like above.
- Only because a class it's easy, it's not a reason for a nerf, as all the classes in the game are very easy to use, but if you think different, install LoL and try to play Lee Sin and Azir and tell me if with less than 100 hours you can reach a decent level.
- if you post an opinion of a class should deserved a buff/nerf explain the reason
- Besides the fact, that i'm a primary plant player (except my love for Imps) i disliked the excessive crying for nerfs of the last patch that this place have come from all plant lovers and fans. Most of zombie mains cryed a river to make my frost rose unplayable. Well, even if you share my same beloved characters, sorry, but you're actually not any different from them, period. Just to clarify.
I'll make a minor discussion and balance change for any class i play the most in a specific fragment of time.
List of Full Changes:
Corn:
Barbeque Corn:
- Damage at max range decreased by 1.5 - 2
- Damage at close-medium range increased. +1 damage (0-5 metres) ; +0.5 damage (5-15) metres
- Stand/End Distance FallOff set at 15/20 metres
- Ammo Count decreased by 5
- Reload Time decreased (buff):
- Increased Movespeed
(accuracy need to stay, he's good to counter imps together with his fire dot)
Party Corn
- Reload Time drastically decreased
Husk Hop
- Slighly width size nerf. The hitbox doesn't match perfectly the animation (or seems have some splash damage) This move is too cheap anyway.
Citron
Default Citron
- Direct Hit Damage decreased by 1
- Direct Hit Damage at Max Range decreased by 1
-Nerf his Overheat Upgrade (seems too good with it, was already what he needed before the patch, don't touch the overheat so people can level up him easier)
Ice Citron
- Slighly Nerf Freeze Rate (+3 ticks)
- Damage at Max Range decreased by 1
- Nerf his Overheat Upgrade (seems too good with it, was already what he needed before the patch, don't touch the overheat so people can level up him easier)
Toxic Citron
- Slighly Increase Toxic Cloud Size
Rose
- Arcane Enigma: gives you instant invicibility
Removed. Seems too good
PeaShooters:
- Super Pea Jump: Cooldown decreased by 5 seconds. Slighly increased duration.
Electro PeaShooter
- Ammo Nerf: 8 - > 5 (not sure)
Commando PeaShooter
- Increased Damage +1
- Damage at Max Range increased +1
Toxic PeaShooter
- Ammo Count nerf by 2
- Direct Hit Nerf by 2 point
Sunflower
- While casting HealBeam on an injured allies she regenerates 2hp per second and she gain 15% Bonus Armor (Damage Reduction) Removed since seems too good
With heal beam changes:
Vampire Flower
- Slighly Life Leech Nerf -0.5 Hp regen every shot (-1 every two shots) Removed, seems too god
Imp
- Gravity Grenade Slighly duration decreased
- Health decreased to 60If
- Citron does get a major nerf
- Rose doesn't get a major buff
- Goop cooldown still the same
Otherwise decreased to 65
Removed seems unnecessary
Little Drake
- Ammo Count decreased by 5
- Little Drake Mech Health decreased by 100 50
Shrimp
- damage increased by 1
Default Imp
- recoil and bullet dispersion slighly reduced removed. Seems that need to be bad at long range
Explanations:
Corn
Corn is finally in the right spot possibile. He's not an immediate to understand character but he's one of the best skill-ceiling character in the game. Finally all others Corn variation have been improved, and this make me think, that finally a small nerf on BBQ is possible, as, is not even anymore the only corn variant viable.
First let's explain why BBQ corn is a overepowered character. His damage are quite ok compared to other variants, what is making this class so oppressive comes from two things:
- his incredible accuracy makes him extremely easy to use. But this is not the big problem here. There's no problem if a class is just easy to use. The main problem is, he has enough damage and harassing power (fire damage over time) to win any short trades at ANY range, because his weapon has an incredible accuracy. No matter the class you're playing, he will just out-trade you in any situation. Also take note that the fire damage over time makes almost every class easy, because the damage is coming from a game-mechanic and not from aiming.
- Most Important: he's actually not used as an assault class. Because of both his good accuracy and good damage at range
Besides been an assault class, BBQ corn is not used to being an assault class. He's actually used for the most like a ranged variant, where PopCorn should shine in that position, but, in the end, he just ends up being better both at Range And enough decent at close, compared to his counterparts.
I really like his recoil and i think it shouldn't be touched, because an assault class need to moving and shooting at the same time, and be sure you can deal a decent amount of damage.
Now i think that BBQ corn should be addressed in a different spot compared to other Corn's. He should be less effective at range, and people should be forced to actually play him as an assault class, so instead of just a nerf, i suggest a "change"
These changes:
- Damage at max range decreased by 1.5 : Pratically a buff revert + a nerf , he has fire dot, didn't need anyway that buff
- Damage at close-medium range increased. +1 damage (0-10 metres) ; +0.5 damage (10-15) metres: this change to compensate the previous nerf
- Stand/End Distance FallOff set at 15/20 metres: with the buff at low range, the damage should DRASTICALLY falloff quickly to not make it effective as a sniper
- Ammo Count decreased by 5: this is to avoid BBQ continue spamming bullet from sniping point
- Reload Time decreased (buff): to make it effective as an assault class
- Increased Movespeed: to make it different from other corn, and not just "weaker".
So he will be more than decent at close, overall with damage, movespeed and decreased reload time buff, but VERY less effective at range, when zombies really struggle to trade with him because of the reason i explained above. His harassing and sniping potential are ALSO extremely hard to deal for zombies overall because of his 150HP.
I think this change will make him perfectly. Not weaker than other variants, but just different and this is what balance should do.
Making him most effective at close and less at range will make him more balanced to deal with, because, usually, the more you're forced to stay close to your enemies, the more you dies. So he will be stronger but more counterable.
IMPORTANT POINT: BBQ CORN WAS ALREADY ONE OF THE STRONGEST PLANT CHARACTER BEFORE THE BUFF (25hp and +1 damage at max range)
Husk Hop Size Nerf
I really like the Husk Hop being so effective, however seems that the damage hitbox doesn't completely fit the animation one. Instead of asking a damage nerf, i would like to make a very very small size nerf (to be more specific, the large size, it seems slighly more large than it should be). Sometimes seems you have missed it, but you are still hitten by that. Giving more chance of counterplay instead of making a skill useless seems a reasonable change.
Work in Progress ~
Corn - Done.
Rose
Citron
PeaShooter
Sunflower
Cactus
Chomper
@xXFrozenChromeXx wrote:
are you masked koopa?
Masked koopa is unicorn_chomper in origin,it definably not him.
While I'm at it,I might as well get mah opinions at some of the balance change proposed in here:
Mostly agree with @Danoludvico change,expect for sunflower and all-star and some minor stuff (like petrified cactus being OP,he's not lol,he pretty much give up sniping for being better in close-mid range)
Sunflower may have not needed those buff,but she don't need a nerf about those neither. like frozenchrome said, she don't have any movement options at the first place outside of a fast movement speed as well as low health,so they aren't gonna be anyway near the front line.
As for all-star,you are underrating them alots. Heck,All-star is actually the best choice to deal with a citron. Imp punt is easy to place due to citron big hitbox and ignore + destroy peel shield. sprint tackle do the same minus destroying peel shield. Shield deloy is a good way to deal with empeach too and his gun still do a good amount of damage in close and can still hit citron easily at longer range. Not even superbrain can do that.
For your foot soldier change,a simple cooldown nerf for rocket jump would do the trick. something like a 10s rocket jump would make it useful over rocket leap too.
As for @xXFrozenChromeXx change,I already talked about them in private,but I'll post my thought here too anyway:
- Citron change is good,was going to say that you might make ice citron worse then he was before the buff but I forgot about the ball buff too so go with it.
- Don't care about arcane enigma buff.
- Agree for both peashooter buff but like I said before,why nerf electro pea and toxic pea ; They both didn't have a great dps and relies as having a great splash to deal with stuff in general,neither need a nerf right now
- That sunflower change is super weird.Like I said to you,I don't like how it kinda throw out the "shoot the medic first" rule that way, having a alternate that work like that (with a drawback of course) though could work.
- Agree with the imp change for the most part expect for nerfing drake mech and buffing basic imp (and the gravity grenade change,would prefer if it don't disable ability anymore instead,but a duration nerf work the same). Drake mech,even with the awesome wind shield,need his bulk as he have a limited effective range. If anything it wind shield that should be nerfed to be less ridiculous then this is right now. Making it having the same health as a pylon mech would be just weird. As for basic imp,he's already a very good char that is only limited by his ineffectiveness in longer range, buffing that would simply push him toward the OP territory.
