Balancing is a disaster.
Popcap, your game is STILL broken. Teams are stacked with overpowered characters pretty much 90% of the time. Frozen Citron, BBQ Corn, Yeti Chomper...
And it's mostly the Plant team. What's up wit...
Forum Discussion
@Screion @the_jeremy823 Honestly you don't know who you're replying to when calling out @Superjesse124 . I know him very well and he has played GW1 and GW2 more than anyone, has made detailed notes on every character variant and is the most thorough gamer I know. He knows his stats, upgrades, damage, etc all too well. I on the other hand just go out to play and don't get into the details. But Superjesse124 goes over every detail, tests everything, has maybe 95% of all variants at max rank, and has unlocked every legendary character. You made a mistake when calling him out on playing the game or understanding the game and its upgrades. Saying this to Superjesse124 is like telling Albert Einstein to go read a book or go back to school! He first posted his zombie list because those are the notes he finished first and wanted to post them. He added the plants after completing his master list. No need for call outs dude. We all want to see this game arrive at a fair and BALANCED gameplay so we all come here to share thoughts and ideas. But as a good friend of Superjesse124 I had to say something because saying that he needs to "understand the game" is as funny as you saying that to Gary Clay or Justin Weibe. We can respect each other's opinions ok.
@PurpleKudzu423, your argument doesn't make sense. First of all, he started off with three plants, then followed up with I believe every zombie in the game. Then added a few more plants here and there afterwards. I mean if he did zombies first, why were the plants listed first, then all the zombies.....followed up with a much smaller list of plants. He added all those plants after being called out, and I think your good friend that you are sticking up for can't be that great if he has this much trouble against the plants when he plays the zombies, sorry I'm not having it. And furthermore since you are such great friends with him you are incapable of being objective. You're coming in here and being his white knight, which while admirable is pointless. You say this guy has a lot of notes but I never see him posting on this site and I never saw him post about other issues like TT map balance which a majority of the community agrees needs balancing. Your best bud who is the Albert Einstein of this game didn't include map balance in any of his amazing notes, but maybe he will add them later like you said because he hasn't finished that part yet. Honestly when you say routine contributors have no idea what they are talking about it throws your judgement into question. You don't even know what's happening in this post, like I said earlier you were late to the party when you tried to defend the list and I said he added to it, then several days later you come back in here again. You didn't even know he listed three plants then the zombies first, then he was called out then added them later. Then when I call you out you don't even acknowledge over any of my point about his detailed notes in the zombies and how pretty much every plant in this game is OP in someway.
I stand by what I said, he is a zombie fan boy who was called out by me and several other member then half heartedly added some plant notes just to try to make his post look better, furthermore your incapable of being objective because he is your good friend.
Hyperbole much,Current patch is the most balanced alteration of the game right now,and while there is still problem. Mostly then it come to UP stuff. They aren't that big currently compared to that we got before,I'll go to each change you suggested:
- Commando pea: While he do need a buff,You're buffing him the completely wrong way. His long range damage is fine,it a peashooter after all, that he need is his recoil don't bring as annoying as well as a small general damage buff.
- Agent pea: Agent pea is a good variant but kinda suffer from the lower hp he got compared to other peashooter,I wouldn't mind if he get his hp back if he get nerfed further.
- Agree for plasma pea nerf, he's the only one that didn't got the general charge variant nerf,make sense for this to get nerfed,however 7 ammo for a fully charged shot mightttt be a bit too much.
- Hot rod chomper: Lmao, learn to play against chomper. remember that he can't do * outside of melee range. The general strategy of camping somewhere he can't reach work well. If you get gooped in range in which he can shallow you and don't manage to kill him,you just got outplayed.
- Agree for toxic chomper
- Chomp thing just need a damage buff like toxic chomper
- Yéti chomper: More laugh, His ice bullet do low damage even an direct outside of close range. In top of not even having that much range at the first place. He's also harder to use in close range outside of shallowing. I really fall to see how you even have trouble against him.
- Agree for disco chomper and unicorn chomper buff.
- Shadow flower: Afaik Shadow flower damage dropoff is different,making her slightly worse then basic for mid-range. And sightly better at any other range.
- Metal petal is fine ; Sunbeam + heal flower + metal petal make for a bulky threat only removed easily by zpg and knockback skill. The latter generally being risky to use at the first place. Also 150 hp is nice for revive. She not even that slow
- idk for vampire flower
- Don't mind if future cactus get a small nerf like that.
- Can get behind those camo cactus buff
- Meh I find zen cactus to be at the weak side right now. I highly doubt he need a nerf.
- Citron is fine afaik. He's pretty much back to the state he was before his buff minus the overheat buff and his ball buff. He also took a notable nerf to his splash radius. I doubt he need any other nerf right now.
- Frozen citron extremely overpowered post-nerf lol. While he may need a overheat nerf,his freeze rate is fine now.
- Interesting buff for party citron and one I can get behind
- I can see why you want to nerf rose ammo back to where it was before,but why nerfing her reload speed in top of it?
- Can get behind those fire rose buff.
- Dunnos for frost rose she a strong variant for sure and probably didn't needed the buff she got,but calling her "very overpowered" is clearly a hyperbole. I fell like it would be better to wait a bit to see what she can do.
- Agree for party rose buff
- 100% agree for kernel corn nerf
- BBQ corn need a bit more recoil in his gun and possibly a long range damage nerf so that he's not as good...Well at long range. He actually burn ammo rather quickly so I don't think it a good idea to nerf that further.
- How is too much ammo a bad thing for mob cob? Fell like he's at a good spot right now. Decent for mid-long range.
- How party corn have too much ammo? It pretty much the same as kernel corn prior to all the ammo buff he got. Agree with the buff otherwise.
- Agree for tank commander buff.
- Accuracy was already increased for general supremo,so a damage buff is better for me.
- Personnal opinions indeed, camo ranger is a strong variant right now, he probably don't need buff.
- I actually find centurion to be fine right now,even if he fell a bit weak. I don't mind if he get a buff.
- Park ranger is fine, who care about Graveyard ops and his boss lol. He fill his niche well without being too strong otherwise.
- Mechanic isn't UP and is actually in the strong side right now with the buff he got, He got the best dps of his class with a good lead. learn to burst fire with him or otherwise just aim alots to get though his accuracy.
- Fire rate buff for painter is weird but could work.
- For plumber, Only his inner splash radius got nerfed,it just need a revert and it should be ok.
- Chemist is fine,he have a HUGE splash radius making him excellent to deal with crowd of plant. And is extra easy to hit making him a great counter to fast char like peashooter in hyper. His dps,while not as good as other scientist variant,is still enough to deal kill stuff once he's in range.
- Agree for paleotologist nerf
- Computer scientist is fine, His crunch mode is weaker because he's a good variant without it anyway.
- Hockey star DPS is actually far from being "amazing",he's that bad. So agree for his buff.
- Agree for rudby star buff
- Idk if wresting star really need a long range damage buff,but he still need to do some more damage in close range for sure
- Let's not make dirt effect too OP,that the effect of a stun for 3 fackin second,moto x star just need his dirt effect to be easier to trigger.
- tennis star is fine afaik.
- Lil drake is fine and even in the strong side (altrough it mostly because of gravity grenade), his slow projectile fire is to balance out how easily he can spread fire with his gun otherwise.
- Pylon imp seem fine for me,yeah he reload fast,but he still lost half his ammo count,which is rather huge. Why nerf his splash too.
- Agree for Shrimp and party imp buff.
- Weird change for Z-mech,I agree with the cooldown nerf,but his current hp is mostly here so that Z-mech rush didn't get too hard to deal with.
- I can get behind those change for cosmic brain. I don't think his punch really need a buff,but it worth a try hue
- Agree for party brain buff. It would make his punch very close to basic brain punch damage but heh, he still got a weak laser and getting in close at the first place is risky for a variant that want to stay alive.
- Don't mind basic pirate scattershot nerf. Might note it the only "good" deadbeard shotgun right now but heh.
- Don't mind flame face buff.
- Snarkbite was op with his old damage but was fine with is old ammo count, he's a bit in teh weak side altrough still good,only revert his ammo count.
- Agree for partyman buff
- The overheat upgrade nerf is barely notifiable anyway and is fine considering overheat upgrade is super good anyway.
- Would prefer that they buff legendary meter itself instead of buffing his upgrade. Otherwise it would just become a mandatory pick once you get it.
And that all Agree for that @ShavedThronel0 said too. I'll read the rest of the thread and edit if I have anything more to say
Edit: Formating
See @Boolerex is someone is respect on these forums. He always has the best answers, best knowledge, and while I've never played with him I image him to be a highly technically skilled player that makes smart decisions. I've posted questions on these forums and he almost always has a great answer if anyone on these forums is an Eisenstein of Pvz gw2 it's him.
I have to agree with Boolerex as usual. The balance isn't perfect but it's certainly better than it was and despite some hyperbole often applied to this game it's not that much different to other team based shooters, and I play Ovewatch, TF2, Natural Selection, Battleborn, Some of the Battlefield games (older ones mostly), and of course both Garden Warfares.
The maps do need some adjustments as also was pointed out. The battery on Zombopolis went from too easy to a bit too difficult to take down as a prime example, but there are other such issues as well and I expect we'll see some more balance fixes coming soon.
Seeing the Cacti buffs was especially good in the last balance pass, I play all classes on both sides and the Cactus has generally had a solid niche as long range fire and area denial, so seeing it being hit too hard earlier wasn't ideal but they are obviously willing to fix such things.
I know that anecdotal evidence can feel like a certain class is OP or UP but you have to balance on a mix of data mining and player feedback to get that balance as close as possible. Balance in these kinds of games is an ongoing process, we have to help move it in a rational and reasonable manner.
