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Pheesley's avatar
Pheesley
6 years ago

Engineer is Overpowered

I want to make sure that whenever the next balance patch comes, Engineer is not left out. He is too strong in mobility and flanking power, and has serious problems.

Turret and Double Time: The on-demand use of these abilities allow Engineer to be an excellent flanking class, arguably even better than flanking plants like Nightcap.

Turret allows Engineer on-demand rapid fire spam, which allows him to easily spam on flanking positions. A very strong combo when flanking is Stun + Turret. Stun the enemy and then spam.

Double Time allows Engineer on-demand speed. Basically, Double Time can be used like Shadow Sneak to retreat and flank. Engineer becomes extremely mobile, and combined with Bullhorn Swarm, he is great at picking off low HP classes. Another strong combo is Double Time to close the gap + Stun.

These abilities absolutely need a setup time before they can be used. In their current state, the instant effects are too easy to exploit, and give Engineer lots of mobility and flanking power.

Possibly more Minor problem - Bullhorn Swarm: Bullhorn Swarm seems to be better used as a more on-demand stun rather than using it to deny areas with the stun mines. Because the stun applies fairly quick, it pairs great with flanking Engineers, and works well with both Double Time and Turret. Bullhorn Swarm is obnoxious to say the least.

It's possible that the stun applies too quickly, but it is hard to tell due to how strong Turret and Double Time are.

Possible problem - Engineer vs. Chomper: Engineer counters Chomper a little too hard. I think the stuns last longer specifically on Chomper, and I dislike that Chomper can't burrow a sprinting Engineer. Engineer's sprint is just on-demand invincibility from burrow, and makes it too easy to avoid burrow. I personally think it would be more interesting if Engineer could only rely on his Bullhorn Swarm, so he would have to make the choice of whether to keep his stun for a chomper, or to use it to hold an area. Besides, it's not like Burrow is very good anyway. Zombies can just sprint away.

I had lot's of fun flanking plants and getting kills by stunning and spamming without much effort. It was pretty funny. However, I think it's about time that Engineer gets a well deserved nerf.

As a side note, I am hoping that Scientist gets fixed because he has been broken since launch. All he needed was a high damage weapon like Steam Blaster to go back to being one of the best zombies because of his poor design. I also think Wizard will become a more problematic support class in the future once more people figure out how to take advantage of his survivability.

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  • stukapooka's avatar
    stukapooka
    Legend
    6 years ago
    @Pheesley Doesn't help that all the characters sprint at the same speed despite their animations, all star should not be running as fast as imp!
  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    6 years ago

    That first point on Turning Point can be a serious pain when the zombies have 1 or more engineers that spam their main weapon into the ship at the beginning of the map and they bounce all around inside there, especially with that upgrade that makes them bounce more than normal.

    It's such a weird character to play these days, like a TF2 Demoman and Engineer mixed together. I could definitely see some changes for this character in future.

    On that speed of characters sidenote; one way you can balance characters is by giving them different base and sprinting speeds. I'd like to see that come to BfN (along with damage drop-off), which would make the game a better experience to play.

  • Provin915's avatar
    Provin915
    Seasoned Veteran
    6 years ago

    Hmmm Engineer  OP... I mean every character is OP if you spam abilities.

    Without the stun, Engineer is pretty vulnerable. I do agree that Double Time is too strong.  I also think the turret has too much HP at the moment. Overall, the Engineer should receive slight  adjustments to speed and perhaps turret HP. But anything more, would be too severe for this character.

    Oh yea, unlimited ammo whilst standing next to the turret is ridiculous. I thought this was absolutely BS since the release  of the game. I think the increased fire rate is alright, but unlimited ammo is too much..

  • Pheesley's avatar
    Pheesley
    6 years ago

    @Provin915Taking away the ammo refill would be a good way to balance Engineer's spam. Not sure about reducing it's HP though.
    It's possible that Double Time's speed needs to be at least looked at. You can greatly increased the speed by jumping, so that could also be a problem

    I figured a small set up time before Engineer can use the effects of Turret and Double Time would keep him from being too strong on the flank.

  • Pheesley's avatar
    Pheesley
    6 years ago

    I never thought about sprint speeds needing to be different. I guess it could technically make tanks less mobile as lighter classes, which would be correct. I dont know

  • voidlistener's avatar
    voidlistener
    6 years ago

    Yeah, Engineer is pretty annoying.. Turret shoud have its buff lowered and damage raised because it can't even kill a weed in ops(?) Don't know why observer upgrade for turret costs that much. Double time gives engineer strafing capabilities(which are pretty limited for any other character and that's the problem). Stun is fine. Primary should be heavier so it won't cover as much range.

  • Provin915's avatar
    Provin915
    Seasoned Veteran
    6 years ago
    @Pheesley Yes, I think either remove ammo refill or reduce turret's HP or reduce movement speed granted by Double Time. Maybe a combination of 2 nerfs can be applied, but definitely not all 3 aspects should be nerfed otherwise the character will become too weak.

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