Healers Discussion
Tweet from EA_PvZ_Mario (PvZ BFN lead multiplayer designer) regarding healers & overhealth. Tweet link: https://twitter.com/ea_pvz_mario/status/1230688746393108481?s=20 Hurrah! Sunflower...
Forum Discussion
@ToastedSarnieSunflower has been my favorite plant since GW1 and still is. She was my 2nd grandmaster plant (Acorn was 1st) and I love playing her. I 100% agree that healing should provide more XP, and of course so should reviving, helping with revives, and a few other things as well. Maybe all they have to do is adjust a couple of her abilities like they did with blossom so you can't combo like I do in my builds for her. I used to have that blossom/cocoon build before the change and that was really strong, but my 2 builds for her still give a lot of self-healing and survival.
I've seen several concerns voiced over her self-healing more than her ability to heal others which is why I mentioned that at all. There are several abilities that can one-shot, or nearly one shot characters, especially lower health ones like her, so maybe all they need to do is tweak some upgrades and call it good.
@Iron_Guard8 Yes, it's a tricky one. It's the calls I've seen in other places for heavy healing nerfs that makes me nervous, because the vast majority are coming from players who do not play Sunflower in PvP.
Blossom can help enormously if Sunflower is linking herself to just one good player, but if you're on an inexperienced / unsupportive team or using your heal beam on two players instead of linking yourself, it's a very different story. That's why I think if anything's changed it needs to be done gently & balanced all round.
I agree Scientist is weaker at self-healing, but on the other hand does the ability to self-heal need to be stronger for him?
He still manages to often top the podium for vanquishes & does have warp to get to a place of safety to regen... and I think changes to his heals were probably introduced in BFN to try & get away from the near invincible warping pairings you'd get in GW2.
Idk! 🤷♀️ A lot of general thoughts not all addressed specifically at you, Iron Guard! (Still trying to swerve the rant.... 😂🤣)
Blossom can help enormously if Sunflower is linking herself to just one good player, but if you're on an inexperienced / unsupportive team or using your heal beam on two players instead of linking yourself, it's a very different story. That's why I think if anything's changed it needs to be done gently & balanced all round.
I agree Scientist is weaker at self-healing, but on the other hand does the ability to self-heal need to be stronger for him?
He still manages to often top the podium for vanquishes & does have warp to get to a place of safety to regen... and I think changes to his heals were probably introduced in BFN to try & get away from the near invincible warping pairings you'd get in GW2.
Idk! 🤷♀️ A lot of general thoughts not all addressed specifically at you, Iron Guard! (Still trying to swerve the rant.... 😂🤣)
- @ToastedSarnie Excellent points about sun flower having to stick to a couple of good players to survive. And scientist ability to consistently be the top vanquisher as a "healer."
As someone who plays sunflower a lot I definitely NEED to stick to someone who is good, otherwise I would just be running away most of the time. Although when I do stick to someone really good, the arguement is that person essentially becomes immortal lol. Which I 90% agree with. There were some situations where I was like, how the hell did we survive that.healers worked in gw2 because of class variants and healing choices. Placing a healing spray as scientist or healing bomb mixed with a weapon of choice (dolphin shotgun for me) made it awesome.
Healing while burning enemies as a sunflower made it awesome for me
as far as BFN goes, I see zombies having the upperhand in many cases, but not in healing. The scientist is just a chore to play with landing the sticky heal and chasing moving targets with the healing hose. Yet I feel like making zombie healing easier would just help zombies who really don't need buffs. People would hate me for saying, but reducing zombie defense and making scientist easier to heal with would feel about right, but also bump up the demand for scientists in groups and I know people don't want to be forced to play something they don't want to play so it's a mixed bag
Ok.. I am going to try and be as diplomatic as I can but doubt I will manage @ToastedSarnie diplomacy, which is why I have avoided commenting all day. When I saw first saw this thread this morning I was triggered super bad... like SUPER bad.... like my head nearly exploded at the thought.
For a start.... sunflowers are targeted left right and center in every game should you choose to play her, which is one of the reasons most people don't... if you choose to play sunflower then you do it for the team... many games have no sunflowers at all because that's not how most people play this game. God forbid it messes with their k/d ratio!!!
As for the scientist.... while his healing may not be as versatile as the sunflower his damage capabilities, his healing thingymabob and his warps sure make up for it and make him a force to be reckoned with... which is why we generally see more scientists in a game than sunflowers.
Indeed, as has already been pointed out, I have often seen scientists on the podium and not for healing as many (not all) play him offensively and do very well with him.
Sunflower in contrast, however, is a healer primarily and struggles big style when up against some characters, if you are caught on your own you have no chance of survival. Not the case for the scientist who can warp away to safety, let alone his superior fire power.
Honestly super scared about this.... especially with the wizard coming and his (from what we know so far) super effective abilities.
The zombies are already a strong force... with a number of super strong characters.... they have superbrianz, space cadet and station, engineer and his turret, electric slide with her electric and tornado, pirate and his barrel and strong parrot, all star and soldier....
while the plants have what... nothing so strong, maybe nightcap who has low health and requires an amount of skill to play well and survive... and maybe the snap dragon if you are skilled with him... other than that Rose with her homing, which is touch and go and the goat thingy (easily avoided) ... a skilled cactus... maybe acorn and a skilled player....
you need a good strong, coordinated team for the plants to be successful while the zombies can get by with their primary fire and abilities even on a lower skilled, less coordinated team.
I know many people may disagree but honestly if they wreck the sunflower then it may ruin the game for me completely I will be so annoyed.
The fact that this is what they deem to be an issue to be looked at when we still have the space station dominating and other other ridiculouses going on blows my mind.@asabaidaYour arguments makes me reconsider my views on SSU. For me, my #1 issue with Sunflower is her Healing Hand. Healing Hand heals too much and plays a big role in Survivability problems with Sunflower, especially with the right upgrades, like Blossom, Full Bloom, and Sunslinger. By herself, she isn't too difficult to kill, and her damage is ok.
@asabaidaTo be honest, I have no idea what they're looking at exactly when they say they're looking at healing and overhealing. The number one change healing needs is more XP. It's just way too low right now. I also have no idea how well balanced Sunflowers and Scientists are against each other. I'm not playing a ton of PvP right now (will be playing more once 12v12 returns and if the weekly events are going to stay fun like that have been), but when I do, I don't see the Scientist kill teams like we had for awhile, which is a good thing. I still prefer Sunflower over Scientist and I always have since GW1.
If they do reduce her self-healing, she's going to need to be compensated in some other way, that's for sure. Scientist has 3 warps, which aids evasion, whereas she has the solar beam which can be nice but of course you can't heal while planting yourself. You can drop sun drops before going into the turret but teammates may grab them on the way through. They need to be very careful when changing our only healers so as not to ruin either characters, although like you I'm more worried about Sunflower than Scientist.
