Horde mode feedback
So what do you think about the new horde mode introduced as the new weekly mode? Personally, I love it! ❤️ I had a blast playing it so far, but I have also talked to someone who hates it. In my op...
Forum Discussion
@Pheesley First of all I want to thank you for your detailed reply!
I know I'm probably in a minority with my opinions on these issues but I can't really agree with many points you make.
I wouldn't say gw2 was better designed. Especially in the beginning things were extremely unbalanced and it stayed that way for much longer than it did in bfn founder's edition. I get that all of this is subjective, but I found the maps to be way worse, the art style was much darker and didn't reflect PvZ, they added so many variants that it got way too complicated.
Bfn improved on the art style, soundtrack, things to do besides pvp, maps (except maybe the lack of verticality) and much more.It made the experience more accessible. The new character are awesome as well,
I played gw1 a lot and felt like gw2 was a rushed downgrade from the original. I couldn't stand playing it anymore after 20 hours. So far I have played bfn for 600+ hours.
I think sunflower's healing was nerfed so much that it's nearly useless already. They removed the ability to combine the upgrade that makes healing faster and enables her to heal 2 plants. Sunny Side up has a high recharge time.
Scientist can easily heal entire groups and himself while also having great mobility.
And I couldn't play the gw games anymore nowadays because of the lack of sprinting. Honestly, without it getting anywhere would be way too tedious. While playing the gw games I felt that movement was way too slow.
As for the primary damaged, I think they have sufficiently increased that a number of updates ago. I like the TTK the way it is now. I believe it is more forgiving while also enabling more strategic play. I know it sound like characters having better primaries would require more strategy, but I disagree. In gw2 players always used the most op high dps characters and you were obliterated before even making a move. It wasn't fun.
Sniping is a problem and damage drop off would help, but Im' not sure it would fit with bfn's map design. The maps are very big and most of the time combat isn't close up. I think it could end up being tiresome if you always had to cross half the map before being able to do any damage as a non sniper.
I know I'm probably in a minority with my opinions on these issues but I can't really agree with many points you make.
I wouldn't say gw2 was better designed. Especially in the beginning things were extremely unbalanced and it stayed that way for much longer than it did in bfn founder's edition. I get that all of this is subjective, but I found the maps to be way worse, the art style was much darker and didn't reflect PvZ, they added so many variants that it got way too complicated.
Bfn improved on the art style, soundtrack, things to do besides pvp, maps (except maybe the lack of verticality) and much more.It made the experience more accessible. The new character are awesome as well,
I played gw1 a lot and felt like gw2 was a rushed downgrade from the original. I couldn't stand playing it anymore after 20 hours. So far I have played bfn for 600+ hours.
I think sunflower's healing was nerfed so much that it's nearly useless already. They removed the ability to combine the upgrade that makes healing faster and enables her to heal 2 plants. Sunny Side up has a high recharge time.
Scientist can easily heal entire groups and himself while also having great mobility.
And I couldn't play the gw games anymore nowadays because of the lack of sprinting. Honestly, without it getting anywhere would be way too tedious. While playing the gw games I felt that movement was way too slow.
As for the primary damaged, I think they have sufficiently increased that a number of updates ago. I like the TTK the way it is now. I believe it is more forgiving while also enabling more strategic play. I know it sound like characters having better primaries would require more strategy, but I disagree. In gw2 players always used the most op high dps characters and you were obliterated before even making a move. It wasn't fun.
Sniping is a problem and damage drop off would help, but Im' not sure it would fit with bfn's map design. The maps are very big and most of the time combat isn't close up. I think it could end up being tiresome if you always had to cross half the map before being able to do any damage as a non sniper.
@benn1nat0r im happy to discuss this stuff! i do like that bfn returned to the more colorful artstyle. I like that there are more suburban maps. The game definitely feels like pvz. The music is nice. And I used to be against sprinting, but I think it will be a nice change of pace, if it is added in correctly.
I was willing to say goodbye to variants. But the upgrade system that was put in their place does not provide nearly as much variety as variants did. Most of the perks feel like gimmicks rather than anything interesting.
My main problem is the gameplay. From what I understand, the lower damage makes BFN a much slower, more team oriented game. I basically have to stick near teammates to succeed most of the time.
The problem of having no Damage Dropoff is that in allowing players to snipe with no incentive to get closer, it ends up creating these fights where players are constantly hiding and shooting behind cover. And because damage is so low, these fights can be very long and slow. Then there are other factors like healing and sprinting, which allows player to escape more easily. For me, it makes the pvp very unsatisfying.
With the gw games, i felt that most characters had an overall forgiving TTK that allowed players to react somewhat. I think if damage dropoff was added, they would probably have to increase damage a little, but it wouldn't be too high, and it would not intrude on the map designs. For example, soldier or corn could be able to deal up to 9 damage, instead of constant 5, 6, or sometimes 7 on critical hits.
- @Pheesley Healing everything a thousand times more difficult, the fact that TTK is not insanely fast is good, but it makes the person doing healing almost immortal, I think DDO is just simply the most important thing possible, he would leave the job of balancing the characters much easier, see the electric slide, which is a good character at close range, but in the long range it still ends up doing better due to the lack of DDO and the sprint, particularly likes the mechanics, but does not have limitations and difference in speed for each character are by far what else makes the mechanics look nauseating.
- @gametrieuk I pretty much agree with you on everything. Electric slide has become a real pain with her super precise and stronger primary.
@Pheesley Thanks again for such a detailed response and explanation on your opinion! I really appreciate it a lot 😃!
I know you were mostly referring to the game mechanics the mentioning gw2 but I just had to talk about other stuff as well. I always like to bring up the positive when talking about the negative. Humans always focus on the negative (it's true, there are a lot of studies that show the negative remains in our minds much longer than the positive). I'm not saying you were too negative, but I generally like mentioning the positive.
It seems like damage drop off would be great, but introducing it this late and so long after release would be weird. I think it may be better suited for a sequel designed around it.
And yes, bfn is more team oriented. And I kind of like it that way. Also I like the TTK more than gw2's. If you liked it that's totally fine. It's just that I have only played gw2 for 20 hours and was really mad about it and therefore wouldn't want bfn to get closer to it in terms of gameplay. I actually encountered a lot of camping and sniping when playing gw2. I felt like there was always a nice sniping spot around that allowed non snipers to snipe effectively and I got obliterated in 2 seconds without realizing what happened. In bfn there is a little more time to react, which I like. You can get behind cover like your opponent does and have to strategically guess his next move and plan yours accordingly. Of course some people abuse it, but that happened in the gw games as well.
And I think especially young players have a way better time with bfn's TTK. A lot of times I see someone with 2009 or so in their username and after shooting 3 times they want to run back to their team. And honestly I don't mind it much. Everyone should have fun playing the game, and these people don't end up being on top of the leaderboard, so it doesn't matter. I only get frustrated when it happens with steam blasters because in addition to sprinting they have 3 warps. So I made a post on rework ideas to combat this.
And I feel kind of sorry for starting this discussion here because the post was originally about horde mode.
