@JamesRivera88 wrote:
The flip side is valid too. However, the team I usually roll with has been beaten by well coordinated plant teams on several occasions. I honestly believe most people whoa re blowing up the forum with "plants suck, yada yada" are playing by themselves and expect to take on a few players at a time. Even a team knows not to go head on against two mechs at once (as an example).
Both teams should be forced to play as a team, not just one. That's where the imbalance comes from, however you play with your own group; I run solo and I can see where the imbalance lays. I mean, I do well on my own with plants and zombies, however, that does not discard the fact that Zombies can obliterate plants with little to no effort. It also comes down to imbalance between variants and plants. Plants don't really have many sniping classes, whilst zombies, pretty much almost every single class has some sort of sniping variant. Thus, range battles become very one sided.
@Artomos wrote:
Both teams should be forced to play as a team, not just one. That's where the imbalance comes from, however you play with your own group; I run solo and I can see where the imbalance lays. I mean, I do well on my own with plants and zombies, however, that does not discard the fact that Zombies can obliterate plants with little to no effort. It also comes down to imbalance between variants and plants. Plants don't really have many sniping classes, whilst zombies, pretty much almost every single class has some sort of sniping variant. Thus, range battles become very one sided.
".. I run solo," is something that should not be done on a multiplayer shooter with objectives in mind and is what fuels the crux of my argument: You need to play as a team. I can not reduce that statement any further-- only offer premises to this conclusion.
"...however, that does not discard the fact that Zombies can obliterate plants with little to no effort." I only agree with this statement in one situation, concerning electric brain, who is obviously broken. Every zombie has a legitimate plant counter and can be beaten, e.g.: Most zombie skills are cut short with Rose's stun/goatify (including Super Brain's spin attack and Imp's impkata); 3/4 of a sunflower's sun beam bar or pea shooter's gatling amo is enough to kill a mech; Any cactus can 2 or 3 shot a scientist (albeit, with head shots); chomper can swallow anyone as long as they are not in vehicle mode (mech, blot shooter, jackhammer); These are only a few examples of viable counters.
"Plants don't really have many sniping classes"... All but one cactus, sunflower beam or peashooter gatling, many pea shooter variants and all citrons are viable snipers.
The more you post, the more you are exposing your true love for zombies and showcasing why this is just one big mega troll.
Pea Gatling isn't a sniper, neither is Citrons beam...are you high or something? You are listing counters to broken zombies using every Plant character, without detailing why each character is weak against the majority of every zombie. Any zombie can stomp almost every plant right now, they have no weakness? You need to absorb this fact.
I think I've nailed it, you don't win most games and you definitely don't play Plants. I want a screenshot of your backyard Plants, promotions and the same for your zombies.
If you loved plants, you would be defending them and agreeing with why some are so weak...but EVERY SINGLE post you make opposes any changes or fixes to any Plant. Your posts are absolutely ridiculous, you're quoting frustrations and expressions of people and arguing a case that doesn't even need to be argued.
Edit: Removed a few hate comments, that's not me.
@Zaheen1337, I do love zombies and plants equal- I am faction blind 😉. However, I do have more of the Zombie classes maxed simply because I played as them pre-patch to figure out the best way to counter rose. I am now using that same reasoning post-patch: playing Plants more often to figure out the best zombie counters. My most played character is *EDIT* fire flower and I que plant side any time I play, especially with my group.However, my switching of most played faction does not validate anyone's opinion on overbearing balance, nor does it disprove that plants have to work a bit harder (which I never denied and can be due to many factors). If electro brain is taken out of the equation, I truly believe the game is very balanced.
@JamesRivera88 wrote:@Zaheen1337, I do love zombies and plants equal- I am faction blind 😉. However, I do have more of the Zombie classes maxed simply because I played as them pre-patch to figure out the best way to counter rose. I am now using that same reasoning post-patch: playing Plants more often to figure out the best zombie counters. My most played character is *EDIT* fire flower and I que plant side any time I play, especially with my group.However, my switching of most played faction does not validate anyone's opinion on overbearing balance, nor does it disprove that plants have to work a bit harder (which I never denied and can be due to many factors). If electro brain is taken out of the equation, I truly believe the game is very balanced.
Faction blind my *. I am faction blind, it's why I want balance! Anyone who opposes true balance in any game is faction blind, and that's definitely you right now according to your posts...
Dude, I have respect for you because you're honest, and I have more for you because you're justifying why they're balanced in some very unique and twisted little way.
Just admit Plants suck now, because they do, and that's why your bloody zombies are maxed out. You certainly didn't max out zombies to counter Rose, I bet your Rose is maxed out too, right?! Sure she is...
Electro Brains is broken, now go play some of the Engineer variants, they hit harder than almost every Cactus! Scientist upgrades give some OP variants more ammo and faster reloading which is like the ultimate troll of all, they don't even need this! They can take out 3 plants at a time with no upgrades, upgrades just mean you can probably take out the whole bloody team solo! AS THE HEALER CLASS!
"However, the team I usually roll with has been beaten by well coordinated plant teams on several occasions."
Don't contradict yourself.
I run solo 100% of the time and depend on randoms. When randoms are doing trash with plants but all the sudden get double digit kills with zombies, it is a clear sign that the zombies have an edge over plants.
"I only agree with this statement in one situation, concerning electric brain, who is obviously broken. Every zombie has a legitimate plant counter and can be beaten, e.g.: Most zombie skills are cut short with Rose's stun/goatify (including Super Brain's spin attack and Imp's impkata); 3/4 of a sunflower's sun beam bar or pea shooter's gatling amo is enough to kill a mech; Any cactus can 2 or 3 shot a scientist (albeit, with head shots); chomper can swallow anyone as long as they are not in vehicle mode (mech, blot shooter, jackhammer); These are only a few examples of viable counters."
The Rose was only super effective prior patch, after patch they're very easy to handle. Yes, a pea Shooter can take out a zmech by going using it's gatling ability, which makes him an easy target and even then you best hope the Zmech(s) do not see you because you're pretty much dead meat if you plant in the wrong place. The Cactus has slow fire rate and high recoil, the scientist has speed can easily avoid most shots by strafing. Believe me, I wreck cacti with the scientist and I also wreck scientists with the cactus, but the cactus is specialty. Chomper is probably the most useless character of them all. Not only do they become very vulnerable after chomping an enemy, they really don't have any ranged attacks, besides the yeti-chomper and even then it is slow and easy avoidable.
The imbalance happens when you look at the projectile type, damage output, speed, and ammo count. It's really hard to kill a zombie when on top of a building using a pea shooter, unless they're near an object that can do splash damage. Versus being able to shoot plants with pin point accuracy by using almost every single variant there is in the zombie side. The only character that can achieve such accuracy is the cactus and now Citron but Citron is very weak when it comes down to damage output. Let's also not forget most plants show a huge portion of their bodies to be able to shoot and hit a zombie. Where are zombies only need to show their bodies partially, even at times none at all to hit the plants. Which is called head glitching and wall glitching on top of having very low recoil and far distance reach.
"All but one cactus, sunflower beam or peashooter gatling, many pea shooter variants and all citrons are viable snipers."
Once again, take into account projectile type, recoil, speed, damage, and ammo. The beam and gatling gun make them very vulnerable and I actually find it to be an easy kill when I see planted plants. By the time they realize I'm there, they're basically almost vanquished and those are abilities not their regular attacks. The sun flower can be effective at range, but due to it's damage output it can hardly vanquish much at a distance.
Conclusion there are zombie variants that do need nerfs, such as: Electro Brainz, Captain Deadbeard variants and the parrot, Imp's Zmech needs another nerf slow speed and may be lower damage output where it forces the mech to choose it's battles wisely and not just mindlessly run into a group of plants and smash everything in it's path. Objective games become impossible to win if there are Zmechs, Allstars, and Super Brainz all over the map.
Leave him to his joke thread, he's openly admitted to playing zombies, thus proving this thread is nothing but a hindrance and annoyance to anyone trying to enjoy a balanced game. 🙂
I wonder if it is as simple as Zombies are easier to aim for all levels of players. If that's the case it's less of a balance issue and more of a structural issue. Obviously it could be addressed through balance. Anyway, it's a different way to look at the problem.
Easy to aim characters : Scientist, Engineer, Super Brainz, All-Star, Chomper. Some Peashooter variants.
@Artomos wrote:
"However, the team I usually roll with has been beaten by well coordinated plant teams on several occasions."
Don't contradict yourself.
I run solo 100% of the time and depend on randoms. When randoms are doing trash with plants but all the sudden get double digit kills with zombies, it is a clear sign that the zombies have an edge over plants.
@Artomos, I agree with your second statement in specific scenarios. However, it could also be that people are team switching and are only good with zombie characters. As an example. I refer to this as a "shotgun cowboy": someone who only plays as scientist and is sub par with anything else. And I agree, I didn't take much consideration into the type of projectiles, which could change my explanation.
I do want to point out that my quoted statement above is not a contradiction, it is called a consolation (not in a patronizing way either), referencing that fact that, anecdotally, plants are extremely effective characters when played right and with coordination.
I have mentioned in previous post before, also on other threads, that Electro Brain is broken, and I do believe he is causing a great deal of resentment towards zombies, just as Rose did for plants. I hope to see him fixed soon, as I find it less enjoyable playing as zombies with 4 of him on my team, stealing kills.
