@Artomos wrote:
Both teams should be forced to play as a team, not just one. That's where the imbalance comes from, however you play with your own group; I run solo and I can see where the imbalance lays. I mean, I do well on my own with plants and zombies, however, that does not discard the fact that Zombies can obliterate plants with little to no effort. It also comes down to imbalance between variants and plants. Plants don't really have many sniping classes, whilst zombies, pretty much almost every single class has some sort of sniping variant. Thus, range battles become very one sided.
".. I run solo," is something that should not be done on a multiplayer shooter with objectives in mind and is what fuels the crux of my argument: You need to play as a team. I can not reduce that statement any further-- only offer premises to this conclusion.
"...however, that does not discard the fact that Zombies can obliterate plants with little to no effort." I only agree with this statement in one situation, concerning electric brain, who is obviously broken. Every zombie has a legitimate plant counter and can be beaten, e.g.: Most zombie skills are cut short with Rose's stun/goatify (including Super Brain's spin attack and Imp's impkata); 3/4 of a sunflower's sun beam bar or pea shooter's gatling amo is enough to kill a mech; Any cactus can 2 or 3 shot a scientist (albeit, with head shots); chomper can swallow anyone as long as they are not in vehicle mode (mech, blot shooter, jackhammer); These are only a few examples of viable counters.
"Plants don't really have many sniping classes"... All but one cactus, sunflower beam or peashooter gatling, many pea shooter variants and all citrons are viable snipers.
"However, the team I usually roll with has been beaten by well coordinated plant teams on several occasions."
Don't contradict yourself.
I run solo 100% of the time and depend on randoms. When randoms are doing trash with plants but all the sudden get double digit kills with zombies, it is a clear sign that the zombies have an edge over plants.
"I only agree with this statement in one situation, concerning electric brain, who is obviously broken. Every zombie has a legitimate plant counter and can be beaten, e.g.: Most zombie skills are cut short with Rose's stun/goatify (including Super Brain's spin attack and Imp's impkata); 3/4 of a sunflower's sun beam bar or pea shooter's gatling amo is enough to kill a mech; Any cactus can 2 or 3 shot a scientist (albeit, with head shots); chomper can swallow anyone as long as they are not in vehicle mode (mech, blot shooter, jackhammer); These are only a few examples of viable counters."
The Rose was only super effective prior patch, after patch they're very easy to handle. Yes, a pea Shooter can take out a zmech by going using it's gatling ability, which makes him an easy target and even then you best hope the Zmech(s) do not see you because you're pretty much dead meat if you plant in the wrong place. The Cactus has slow fire rate and high recoil, the scientist has speed can easily avoid most shots by strafing. Believe me, I wreck cacti with the scientist and I also wreck scientists with the cactus, but the cactus is specialty. Chomper is probably the most useless character of them all. Not only do they become very vulnerable after chomping an enemy, they really don't have any ranged attacks, besides the yeti-chomper and even then it is slow and easy avoidable.
The imbalance happens when you look at the projectile type, damage output, speed, and ammo count. It's really hard to kill a zombie when on top of a building using a pea shooter, unless they're near an object that can do splash damage. Versus being able to shoot plants with pin point accuracy by using almost every single variant there is in the zombie side. The only character that can achieve such accuracy is the cactus and now Citron but Citron is very weak when it comes down to damage output. Let's also not forget most plants show a huge portion of their bodies to be able to shoot and hit a zombie. Where are zombies only need to show their bodies partially, even at times none at all to hit the plants. Which is called head glitching and wall glitching on top of having very low recoil and far distance reach.
"All but one cactus, sunflower beam or peashooter gatling, many pea shooter variants and all citrons are viable snipers."
Once again, take into account projectile type, recoil, speed, damage, and ammo. The beam and gatling gun make them very vulnerable and I actually find it to be an easy kill when I see planted plants. By the time they realize I'm there, they're basically almost vanquished and those are abilities not their regular attacks. The sun flower can be effective at range, but due to it's damage output it can hardly vanquish much at a distance.
Conclusion there are zombie variants that do need nerfs, such as: Electro Brainz, Captain Deadbeard variants and the parrot, Imp's Zmech needs another nerf slow speed and may be lower damage output where it forces the mech to choose it's battles wisely and not just mindlessly run into a group of plants and smash everything in it's path. Objective games become impossible to win if there are Zmechs, Allstars, and Super Brainz all over the map.
Leave him to his joke thread, he's openly admitted to playing zombies, thus proving this thread is nothing but a hindrance and annoyance to anyone trying to enjoy a balanced game. 🙂
I wonder if it is as simple as Zombies are easier to aim for all levels of players. If that's the case it's less of a balance issue and more of a structural issue. Obviously it could be addressed through balance. Anyway, it's a different way to look at the problem.
Easy to aim characters : Scientist, Engineer, Super Brainz, All-Star, Chomper. Some Peashooter variants.
@Artomos wrote:
"However, the team I usually roll with has been beaten by well coordinated plant teams on several occasions."
Don't contradict yourself.
I run solo 100% of the time and depend on randoms. When randoms are doing trash with plants but all the sudden get double digit kills with zombies, it is a clear sign that the zombies have an edge over plants.
@Artomos, I agree with your second statement in specific scenarios. However, it could also be that people are team switching and are only good with zombie characters. As an example. I refer to this as a "shotgun cowboy": someone who only plays as scientist and is sub par with anything else. And I agree, I didn't take much consideration into the type of projectiles, which could change my explanation.
I do want to point out that my quoted statement above is not a contradiction, it is called a consolation (not in a patronizing way either), referencing that fact that, anecdotally, plants are extremely effective characters when played right and with coordination.
I have mentioned in previous post before, also on other threads, that Electro Brain is broken, and I do believe he is causing a great deal of resentment towards zombies, just as Rose did for plants. I hope to see him fixed soon, as I find it less enjoyable playing as zombies with 4 of him on my team, stealing kills.
