I have to agree that for looks and diversity the maps are actually very, very well presented but due to their size the vast majority seem kind of wasted in their application. Seeds of time for example. It's a huge beautiful map but because the action areas are generally located within very small pockets of each particular zone the remaining unused areas simply act to prolong your journey back to the action. I have to admit that, much as l like seeds of time, the vast majority of my game time seems to be walking through beautifully drawn scenarios doing absolutely nothing at all. Arriving at a garden also presents a choice. Do I want to play the game as it should be played, knowing full well that if I so much as breathe on that garden i'm going to be instantly killed by something unseen (or a couple of mad swirly super hero killing machines) and have to suffer the eternal walk back again - or do I stay away and just hope for the best.. Multiply that by every single available map and all of a sudden you're getting either a very pointless or potentially tedious game. So, pretty as the maps are, they just don't help themselves with their size.
GW1 worked because the maps were considerably smaller (in some instances a foot soldier could rocket attack a garden within a few seconds of leaving the previous garden) and no matter where you were within the play area something could be going on around you. Everything around you was accessible. Campers and snipers could easily be taken out. Little things like that which made gameplay flow continuously and made it the game it was (and still is). GW2 is fast approaching 6 months old now, has had 2 half price sales on XBL marketplace and despite all it's bells and whistles GW1 still refuses to go away. Kind of tells a story, doesn't it?
You know a funny thing happened the other day. I accidentally selected the wrong game mode whilst playing GW1 multiplayer and ended up in a different game mode (obviously) on a map that in almost 2 years of owning and playing the game had never ever seen before. "Woah, there's actually more of this game?" .. So now I have a brand new GW1 to explore..
As for the old maps, well you really shouldn't be missing them because every one of them are available to play - elsewhere.....
Overwatch is a pretty decent game which (in my opinion) offers the same frenetic gameplay of GW2 but in a more controlled manner. What I particularly like about it - and this is again going back to the COD thing - is that it allows you to pick a character that on paper doesn't look particularly fantastic but allows you to play in a way that suits your gameplay style and develop your skills accordingly. The result is that it creates a feeling that you're playing exactly as you want to and still have the opportunity to be equally as good as the next person. When you consider that the sole purpose of buying a game like Overwatch is purely for the long haul element then yeah, what it has set out to do is pretty promising. I hope it does well.
It's not a bad thing to prefer GW2 because as you pointed out there's certainly enough initial content to get your teeth into and that in itself will offer a considerable amount of game time. But as time marches on and things get done (several times over) it will lose it's edge - particularly because the multiplayer aspects of the game don't seem to gel enough to warrant any long term appeal - and you may find yourself struggling to justify playing it. Overwatch is initially insanely difficult (some people are already waaay too good at this game) and demands time and effort to persevere whereas GW2 (offline) allows you to take things a little easier so it is kind of understandable that people develop a preference.
And finally the one thing I would particularly like to see within GW2 is an expansion on the good old 'free for all'. Split down the maps into more manageable sections, create a single leaderboard and just let everyone go hammer and tong with any old character on that particular map. It completely removes team domination, character domination and may just make for an interesting alternative to what is currently available in multiplayer. It won't work on some maps but Zombopolis is most definitely made for a mode like this.... Haha, another idea that won't happen 🙂
As I said I intentionally went back and played GW1 again over the weekend. Got some Taco bandits in (I so miss that mode), some Gardens and Graveyards, and the other modes that have made the migration to GW2. Despite GW2’s foibles I found I missed certain aspects of GW2 although I love those old maps. Taco Bandits on Jewel Junction, Vanquish Confirmed on Suburban Flats, etc. were all great moments I recently had. Bringing the old maps to the new game with more class balances would help the old hands of the original game while still supporting the new game. I 100% agree that the old game has some advantage over the new one but the new one has so many other things I consider amazing; the Backyard Battleground, some of the new customizations (although I miss some of the old ones as well), the new classes (balance issues notwithstanding), and the ability to play with bots when you want to just go nuts.
Overwatch is very good. I’m level 57 in the game, focusing mostly on Symmetra, Mercy, and Pharah. One thing I found annoying in that game though is unless my teleporter is up as Symmetra, the walk back to the action is worse than the large maps in GW2. I believe this is largely intentional but nothing is more frustrating than not being able to defend objective A because I’m still running back from spawn. The biggest issue I’ve had in Overwatch isn’t the great players you indicate, although they clearly exist, is such broken teams as 5 Torbjorn’s and a Mercy defending Volskaya’s Point B. That was rage inducing to be sure.
One issue with the GW2 Turf Takeover maps is that the teleporters’ placement in regards to your spawn area and the destination/entry points of the teleporters make me scratch my head. On the 3rd Moonbase Z point I’ve spawned where the walk to either the teleporter destination or the entry point was pretty much the same distance. That reduces the value of such utilities significantly. Also I’ve spawned and had no idea where the entry point for a teleporter is until I acclimated myself with the maps and this too reduces the value of the teleporters.
I like your idea of a free for all. The game has a decent amount of game modes now, even with the glaring omission of Taco bandits but more is always welcome. I know most people play Turf Takeover but mixing it up is a good thing as well. Perhaps we could have an open world Backyard Battleground or a selection of them where anyone can go instead of a private one just to mix it up with the community for fun. My friends and I have had some good times in our own backyards; getting multiple bosses while several AI characters get in the fight while we do as well is great fun so I can get behind your idea 100%!
That gnome portal in the Town Hall promises something for the future of the game. I still hold out for the old maps to be migrated forward, but adding your idea as well would be great fun.
I'll bring my two cent.
I see alots of mention of taco bandit. But it was honestly the worst gamemode of GW1 for me simply due to how blased it was to plant team,while it was sorta fun for them, it was generally boring to play as a zombie as most of the time you just feel like you're doing nothing useful most of the time. Expect by attempting to get the taco and generally dying because you can't do much with it.
But now that both plant and zombie have both stationary and movable summonable. It could be interesting to have a two-way taco bandit, more like a CTF mode like other game.
As for the balance,like you said, the last patch aren't done much to fix the current problem and even created other one,and thus was rather a step back (rip camo cactus). But even then I still think we're fairly close to fix the OP stuff so that can finally focus at buffing the worst stuff. I mean,current problem in the OP is some citron variant being too strong, Gravity grenade,parrot and possibly Z7 imp and BBQ corn. Once those get (hopefully) fixed,maybe there could be finally a focus for some of the worse alternate abilities,variant as well as some bad upgrade.
For the map, one of the most notifiable change that the new map have is how few there is "safe" and obvious sniping spot now. In one point,it lowered foot soldier dominance which was seriously needed but also kinda hurt cactus viability. Garden center was one of the few map that lacked his problem,which probably explain why is got ported in GW2 and even then,the common sniping spot got a new flanking route which again made them less safe. There also the map in G&G which are overall bigger. But instead moved attacker spawn after capturing a point a bit further and also don't always spawn you in front of the teleporter entrance anymore. All of which make the teleporter seem less useful. Which is imo,a better thing then how mandatory they were in GW1. Capture point in GW2 are also smaller and unlike GW1,generally have next to no cover when inside it. Which probably didn't helped the perception of GW2 being more chaotic then the first one.
As for the old customization stuff in GW1, I can get away with hats and such but I seriously miss the old gestures from GW1,which it not helped by some of them being used for trailer.
I can see them tweaking the old maps to make Snipers less safe and I don't mind that at all. Garden Center does indeed have some fairly minor but important changes that make sniping less lucrative but kept the overall layout largely intact. I like this idea a lot and I hope it bodes well for the old maps. For me it was more about the scenery than anything else and have no issue with some balance tweaks.
Edit: Cacti need to be able to fulfill their role and be fun to play, that needs to be taken into account for map design as well. Captain Deadbeard fills a similar role but due to his nature of dual range firepower is less of an issue.
My zombie team actually won the Taco Bandits game I played in over the weekend. It does favor the defender but I always had a blast with that mode and the theme is highly amusing. A mutual CTF mode like TF2, especially 2-fort where I spent hundreds of hours, would be cool. Perhaps both sides have tacos to defend now? The name alone was good and Dave does love tacos! Zomboss wants to steal Dave's and Dave wants to get his back perhaps?
The teleporters:I can see your point. I never want to play a game where a certain class is absolutely required for your team (Rose/Engineer in this case) but they should be useful and desired. Finding that middle ground is not so easy. Too far one way they become essential, the other way and they're useless. In Overwatch you almost always see Mercy on a team and if not her Lucio, although Mercy seems to be almost required by the competitive crowd.
And yes, the gestures I especially miss as well. We have so few in GW2 and so many old good ones we need back!
I've noticed a lot of the game modes (in both GW's) are hopelessly underused but that's probably down to what Boolerex says in the fact that they're just not very interesting to play. I'm not saying it's the definitive way forward but freshening game modes by introducing different ways to play can't be a bad thing. Free for all is reasonably popular because you can basically do what you want without the need to conform to any rules of gamplay / teamplay whatsoever, so in a lot of respects it's a good alternative to the confines of these 'rule' based scenarios.
Wow, I completely overlooked the backyard and it's multiplayer potential. If you close up the sewers and plant / zombie bases then I have to agree that it would make an excellent alternative. As a single map that doesn't invole progression unlocks it's of a good size to host quite a lot of game types that don't involve converging on a single spot so why not implement it within the selectable multiplayer maps?
Regarding map migration. Much as I adore the GW1 maps (well, the maps I have actually seen lol) I'm not quite sure if reproducing them for GW2 is an entirely good thing. Aside from the fact that they have been played over and over again by just about everyone I don't remain convinced that they will be equally as enjoyable second time around. A sequel perhaps should be a sequel in it's entirety and porting 'classic' maps sometimes takes away the unique feel of a game. A perfect example (from games I have purchased) is Forza 6. F6 is effectively the whole of Forza 5 plus a few extras and simply migrating the entire game into it's sequel has somewhat spoils the 'newness' of the game. PopCap have to be given a great deal of credit because if nothing else they presented a game that bore absolutely no resemblance to it's predecessor, giving the impression that the purchase was indeed for something 100% brand new. My way of thinking is that if GW2 would simply have been GW1 in it's entirety - plus a few more maps - then it's appeal would have been greatly reduced. OK, so the sequel would have probably presented the old maps with more graphical splendour but again, do they really need to be updated to make them better? But everyone has their own opinions as to content so I guess others will disagree...
Re: The gnome portal. I don't know if you have noticed this but there is a near identical town hall in Zombopolis, so it may well be the case that this 'hidden' portal in the backyard town hall simply relates to the already unlocked town hall in Zombopolis... Who knows.
On the gnome portal:
I have noticed the town halls but gnomes are all about temporal power, hence infinity time as a prime example, so some kind of time theme there makes a lot of sense here thematically.
On the old maps:
I see your point about them perhaps being overused. My main interest with it is nostalgic. If/when they do migrate them to the new game there will undoubtedly be changes. All the same I find adding more maps is a good thing. More options for quests and ops is one reason. We also only have 2 Gardens & Graveyards maps and 3 Herbal Assault maps whereas in the old game we had 4 G&G maps (I don't consider the night versions as truly separate maps). That gives GW2 1 more turf takeover map but less variety in the separate types. Even if we don't get the old maps we need more maps.
Honestly I think the largest issue is class and map balance. Once we get those issues under control we can use new maps, class variants, etc.
I'm also curious about the 2 'missing' classes, one from each side that are often brought up among the community in regards to the 2 empty slots, 1 each in the respective home bases in the backyard battleground. More classes may muddy the role waters even more than they are now though.
If I had a dollar for every time I accidently left the booth during a turf takeover game and went to the backyard I would have like 23 bucks.
@B0RiS_THE_FR0G wrote:
I've noticed a lot of the game modes (in both GW's) are hopelessly underused but that's probably down to what Boolerex says in the fact that they're just not very interesting to play.
Never said that expect for taco bandit, gnome bomb game are hype as hell most of the time for exemple,but it rather clear that most of the player base generally hang around Turf takeover or team vanquish. Thankfully popcap moved the mixed mode playlist in second position instead of Team vanquish,which helped a bit to populate it.
Yes I know you didn't. I was just using your reference to emphasise that people don't play other game modes because they're not very interesting to play. In you're instance it's Taco Bandit and the truly awful gnome bomb....
Apologies if it sounded like I misquoted you.
Re: The mysterious portal.
Well I hope you're right but until PopCap reveal all then I guess we'll never know. One thing that does puzzle me regarding the multiplayer maps is why they didn't make them available as free roam locations within the backyard. It wouldn't be too difficult to place random warp gates around the play area and allow players to drift between zones in order to (possibly) compete in various sub games within their designated destination. Aside from making single player a huge experience it would also allow players to learn the maps without the hassle of having to play competitively. Who knows, maybe this mystery portal will be the gateway to all levels.
Re: Gestures / taunts.
Yes, I am 100% with you on this one. As a self confessed abuser of the taunts (the footsoldier ones are borderline obscene) I severely miss the ability to be downright offensive to my fellow gamers because on some occasions (particularly in a close fought one-to-one duel) the taunt can be more satisfying than the kill itself. Nothing like provoking a bit of the proverbial red mist. The taunts system employed in GW2 gives the impression that PopCap have taken the PEGI rating a bit too seriously and gone all politically correct on us for the benefit of not offending the younger gamers. Humbug.
Re Maps:
I'm guessing that, much like what happened in GW1, the maps will come over time as part of content updates so it may well be the case that everyone will see considerably more variants in Herbal assault and G&G. The important thing to remember about the old maps though is that GW1 is currently quite an active game and any migration whilst the game is still a sellable / playable commodity probably won't happen in the short term anyway. Well probably not with the more popular maps of G&G. Perhaps a long way down the road when the servers have finally shut down (when it will be a true nostalgia trip) would be the better option, with PopCap employing the 'brand new' approach until that time arises. It's weird because sometimes I get the feeling that GW2 simply doesn't merit the inclusion of GW1 maps because in a twisted way it kind of taints the integrity of the original game. Adopting an uber-protective stance, so to speak lol... Hmm, sounds kind of not normal, doesn't it ?
Well it's been nice chatting (makes a change for a thread to remain sensible throughout) but I don't really think I can add much more to the equation. All I will say is; Let's just hope that for the sake of the game things do improve considerably and GW2 does become the worthy successor that it deserves to be.
