Plants are not weak
I'm tired of seeing complaining that plants are weak now. Plants are not under powered just balanced. Its the people who are in the plants side. When i'm in the plant or zombie side i always get the ...
Forum Discussion
It's like the Plant players don't realize that Plants are centered around higher defense, better healing, higher health (on average) more defensive abilities. They think because they don't do the exact same dmg with a base attack, that they are then weaker, even though, again, they have more defensive abilities and higher (on average) health pools with more abilities that neutralize their enemies (more Crowd Control).
If you match Plants dmg up with Zombies, you just made the team with higher hp's, higher mobility/speed, more crowd control, and higher healing have equal damage... What do you whining fools think would then happen to balance?
@Rhendyr wrote:It's like the Plant players don't realize that Plants are centered around higher defense, better healing, higher health (on average) more defensive abilities. They think because they don't do the exact same dmg with a base attack, that they are then weaker, even though, again, they have more defensive abilities and higher (on average) health pools with more abilities that neutralize their enemies (more Crowd Control).
If you match Plants dmg up with Zombies, you just made the team with higher hp's, higher mobility/speed, more crowd control, and higher healing have equal damage... What do you whining fools think would then happen to balance?
Plants have higher health pools? It's about the same. Zombies more if you count the Imp Mech
Plants do not have higher speed, except for pea shooter but engineers have jackhammer.
Zombies can peak from behind walls and shoot but plants need to be more exposed.
CC : Plants - Rose and citron Zombies - Engineer and Imp (soldier too if you count the smoke bomb)
Defense capabilities... the cactus wall same as all-star's wall. But zombies also have things that mitigate damage while dealing damage. Plants don't except for citrus.
There are no plant or zombie players, everyone plays as both but its unbalance when it's easier to win as one side as opposed to the other.
@MetalliXsuicide wrote:
@Rhendyr wrote:
It's like the Plant players don't realize that Plants are centered around higher defense, better healing, higher health (on average) more defensive abilities. They think because they don't do the exact same dmg with a base attack, that they are then weaker, even though, again, they have more defensive abilities and higher (on average) health pools with more abilities that neutralize their enemies (more Crowd Control).
If you match Plants dmg up with Zombies, you just made the team with higher hp's, higher mobility/speed, more crowd control, and higher healing have equal damage... What do you whining fools think would then happen to balance?
Plants have higher health pools? It's about the same. Zombies more if you count the Imp Mech
Plants do not have higher speed, except for pea shooter but engineers have jackhammer.
Zombies can peak from behind walls and shoot but plants need to be more exposed.
CC : Plants - Rose and citron Zombies - Engineer and Imp (soldier too if you count the smoke bomb)
Defense capabilities... the cactus wall same as all-star's wall. But zombies also have things that mitigate damage while dealing damage. Plants don't except for citrus.
There are no plant or zombie players, everyone plays as both but its unbalance when it's easier to win as one side as opposed to the other.
No plants vs zombies people? That's laughable. The majority of those whining about plants played Plants almost exclusively, and still try to, the ones speaking reason tend to be those who went back and forth.
Plants have, on average 4 health points more, the disparity was greater before the Imp's hp increase (Rose's decrease was offset by Corn's increase.) the Mech argument is moot, it dies so quickly, anyone who lets a mech be a factor deserves to lose (I've solo killed so many mechs it's ridiculous), plus it's an ability, I didn't count Citron's hp increase from his shield, even though it's cool down is a fraction of the Mechs. If one is going to count the Mech, then they must count Citron's shield, and count the +25 however many times they can use it during the same cool down as the Mech for fairness.
The speed is hard to prove or disprove, it's always felt to me that when I played Plants, their natural speed was much higher on a whole, but, they had fewer gap closers. In my mind, that makes them better suited for defense.
You want to compare Crowd Control?
Plants:
EM Peach
Spin Dash
Time Snare
Goatify
Goop
SpikeweedZombies:
Sonic Grenade
Turbo Twister
Gravity GrenadeSmoke Bomb doesn't count, if it were a true/real Blind, then it would. Or, if it made your cross hairs stay white instead of turning red when on a target, then it would. But as is, it "blinds" the Zombis as much as it "blinds" the plants, so if you insist it be counted as CC, it would apply to both sides.
Plants have higher healing, better defensive abilities (more things to place or toss to go boom or snare/slow down/stop), more CC, and now only slightly better overall HP's and I still believe higher overall natural movement speed. Zombies deal more dmg, and have more gap closers.
You want to talk about support classes?
Engineer can hit 40s and the Druid is hitting 2s, they both have CC.
I think I've worked it out, the general census of players mentally are against plants because their favourite classes are on the OP zombie side and they want to continue scoring the highest. If you think the game is currently balanced now then you're deluded, straight up.
You can't even hide behind the imp being OP either, they were already OP before, and you whine about dying at 50 health, but as soon as you get into the mech everyone has to run, nothing beats it 1v1, the Citron doesn't even come close unless you're at range hidden away and even then it has to play like a coward.
I have to agree, Sunflowers are just redundant now, Vampire is alright but easily picked off. Pirates have caused Peashooters to suck, previously you could get somewhere high up and survive, but now you're dead in a second due to Pirate, needless to say ZPG inc as well. So you save your hyper for a floor battle and that lasts a few seconds, if your enemy isn't dead then you just lost.
If your enemy has eyes and doesn't die to your chilli bomb then again you probably just lost. Safest bet is to get indoors, and choke someone out in a tunnel with Gatling, maybe you'll get a kill or two before you get one shot.
Zaheen, I started playing exclusively Plants side, I'm now at 7 straight wins with plants in Team Vanquish...
Either I'm just that good, you're just that bad, or they are balanced and you're too ignorant to see that. You decide.
@Rhendyr wrote:
No plants vs zombies people? That's laughable. The majority of those whining about plants played Plants almost exclusively, and still try to, the ones speaking reason tend to be those who went back and forth.
Plants have, on average 4 health points more, the disparity was greater before the Imp's hp increase (Rose's decrease was offset by Corn's increase.) the Mech argument is moot, it dies so quickly, anyone who lets a mech be a factor deserves to lose (I've solo killed so many mechs it's ridiculous), plus it's an ability, I didn't count Citron's hp increase from his shield, even though it's cool down is a fraction of the Mechs. If one is going to count the Mech, then they must count Citron's shield, and count the +25 however many times they can use it during the same cool down as the Mech for fairness.
The speed is hard to prove or disprove, it's always felt to me that when I played Plants, their natural speed was much higher on a whole, but, they had fewer gap closers. In my mind, that makes them better suited for defense.
You want to compare Crowd Control?
Plants:
EM Peach
Spin Dash
Time Snare
Goatify
Goop
SpikeweedZombies:
Sonic Grenade
Turbo Twister
Gravity GrenadeSmoke Bomb doesn't count, if it were a true/real Blind, then it would. Or, if it made your cross hairs stay white instead of turning red when on a target, then it would. But as is, it "blinds" the Zombis as much as it "blinds" the plants, so if you insist it be counted as CC, it would apply to both sides.
Plants have higher healing, better defensive abilities (more things to place or toss to go boom or snare/slow down/stop), more CC, and now only slightly better overall HP's and I still believe higher overall natural movement speed. Zombies deal more dmg, and have more gap closers.
Citron's shield doesn't count because as a mech you get abilities, you are literally a new character. I love mechs they are strong and fun but they are also a big target and the point of concentrated fire, which is why they always die quick. About the speed, i believe its equal. Though imps do feel fast.
CC wise:
Spin dash is not CC
Goatify is not a real CC, the goats can kill.
Spikeweed - it's not really something you launch at a crowd, its a mine type thing which is easily avoided and destroyed.
Dont forget, zombies have rodeo canon and that turret for engineers. That canon hits for 50 a pop and 20 for splash.
I place smoke bomb as a CC because it sort of blinds the area and damages plants. And usually soldiers follow up a smoke bomb with ZPG...
I think the healing portion is now equal. Scientists heal as good as sunflowers.
Furthermore, what fuels the unbalance feeling is the aiming mechanics. Plants have to really be out there to shoot zombies where as zombies can afford to hide behind cover and be more discreet.
@MetalliXsuicide wrote:
@Rhendyr wrote:
No plants vs zombies people? That's laughable. The majority of those whining about plants played Plants almost exclusively, and still try to, the ones speaking reason tend to be those who went back and forth.
Plants have, on average 4 health points more, the disparity was greater before the Imp's hp increase (Rose's decrease was offset by Corn's increase.) the Mech argument is moot, it dies so quickly, anyone who lets a mech be a factor deserves to lose (I've solo killed so many mechs it's ridiculous), plus it's an ability, I didn't count Citron's hp increase from his shield, even though it's cool down is a fraction of the Mechs. If one is going to count the Mech, then they must count Citron's shield, and count the +25 however many times they can use it during the same cool down as the Mech for fairness.
The speed is hard to prove or disprove, it's always felt to me that when I played Plants, their natural speed was much higher on a whole, but, they had fewer gap closers. In my mind, that makes them better suited for defense.
You want to compare Crowd Control?
Plants:
EM Peach
Spin Dash
Time Snare
Goatify
Goop
SpikeweedZombies:
Sonic Grenade
Turbo Twister
Gravity GrenadeSmoke Bomb doesn't count, if it were a true/real Blind, then it would. Or, if it made your cross hairs stay white instead of turning red when on a target, then it would. But as is, it "blinds" the Zombis as much as it "blinds" the plants, so if you insist it be counted as CC, it would apply to both sides.
Plants have higher healing, better defensive abilities (more things to place or toss to go boom or snare/slow down/stop), more CC, and now only slightly better overall HP's and I still believe higher overall natural movement speed. Zombies deal more dmg, and have more gap closers.
Citron's shield doesn't count because as a mech you get abilities, you are literally a new character. I love mechs they are strong and fun but they are also a big target and the point of concentrated fire, which is why they always die quick. About the speed, i believe its equal. Though imps do feel fast.
CC wise:
Spin dash is not CC
Goatify is not a real CC, the goats can kill.
Spikeweed - it's not really something you launch at a crowd, its a mine type thing which is easily avoided and destroyed.
Dont forget, zombies have rodeo canon and that turret for engineers. That canon hits for 50 a pop and 20 for splash.
I place smoke bomb as a CC because it sort of blinds the area and damages plants. And usually soldiers follow up a smoke bomb with ZPG...
I think the healing portion is now equal. Scientists heal as good as sunflowers.
Furthermore, what fuels the unbalance feeling is the aiming mechanics. Plants have to really be out there to shoot zombies where as zombies can afford to hide behind cover and be more discreet.
I'll grant you your argument about the Mech, it's a well thought out one and I'll change my mind on it.
We have a disagreement here on some CC though, and a basis for that may be our differing definition of what is considered Crowd Control. In my experience, from a LOT of PvP based MMO's, here is my definition of Crowd Control in an online game...
Crowd Control is any ability that is designed to move, slow down, stop, stun, silence, blind, disrupt movement or abilities, take control of a player or otherwise change who they are and how they function.
With that said...
Spin Dash knocks people back, and will knock them out of their abilities. That to me is a form of CC.
Goatify is still a form of CC, as you do considerably less dmg in it, have a harder time getting away while still taking a lot of dmg. It's actually probably the best CC in the game.
Spike Weed roots people in place, and is still a form of CC. I killed a Super Brainz earlier who was spinning on me by dropping it, it pulled him in, I then had time to goop and swallow. That root has saved me many, many, MANY times and has turned a sure death into a kill a lot as well. It's a form of CC.
The rodeo cannon and such as damaging abilities, they aren't forms of CC, the smoke bombs dmg capacity is, well, dmging, not so much CC. Personally I think it needs reworked, as it currently is it blinds the zombies as much as the plants and really only seems effective for masking a get away.
The Scientist can 'kind' of get close to the sunflower in healing if he gets rid of his mines and goes with the heal bomb instead, though the heal bomb doesn't heal multiple people over time like the heal flower does. Basically, the Engineer does higher 1 hit dmg, while the Sunflowers is more continuous, the flower heals better, but doesn't have a gap closer. I could go into the math if you want? I would bet much like Zaheen's Engineer vs Rose argument that the Sunflower probably has just as high, if not higher DPS over time, but that it just has less "burst" dmg.
- What a load of B/S the plants are weak and it was hidden due to the Rose problem but now this has been sorted the bigger issue has shown.
And please remember everyone this is a game for new players and children who dont want to play tacticly this was never the case in GW1 nor should it be in GW2 this should be a game of fun. Any newbies coming along now are going to get spluttered by the zombies due to weakness in characters and not been able to play or want to play tacticly with a underpowered weak first character.
Kids wanna play the game and shoot around and have fun you can not do this now if you choose the plants in GW2, a few nights ago I was playing gw2 and there was a young child playing as you could hear mic talk In between games I'm currently aged 42 and ranked 130 and played gw1 for 3 years and now gw2, he was ranked just 17 whilst playing my rock bea at elite level he had more kills out of me that night than I had the whole game I played tacticly but game play was utter pointless even my son who now brilliant at close compat tactics tried in the next game as a plant and got absolutely smashed time and time and time again and I will tell you it's absolutely no fun what so ever seeing a young child plast his way through the game and getting top leader board with s huge amount of kills. With a low skill rank and having limited characters.
The plants are unbalanced and I would say the pea and sunflowers are the worst currently as I said before Rose masked a bigger problem with some of the plant charters not all mind and now rose is sorted the bigger issue is shown. Secondly if plant characters that are ok in power wise at the moment are not used played with in the game session you will then have characters who are weak being played with in the game then the problem is even worse and zombies can have easy pickings.
This is why zombies are masters now if you have a a game with a team of 2 supper brain 2 allstars and 2 scientist, the game is over already.
