Plants Suck
Yeah, I feel better in my heart now I've expressed my opinion about this side. It isn't even one class that sucks, it's all of them. Fix Rose Buff Sunflower Fix Chomper Buff Cactus Buff Peashoo...
Forum Discussion
Oh, I absolutely agree with you 100%. If the Chomper is buffed too much, he could be one of the biggest (new) problems in the game. So that's why I think he needs corrected before he is buffed, and all the points you make about upgrades are all valid -- because that is the illusory depth I talked about a second ago. But think of it this way:
In the first game he was virtually PERFECT for the environment in which he was in, compared to the classes in that game. There are (obviously) some new classes and variants in Garden Warfare 2 to take into account, so it's possible that he may need some more balancing. But (as of today) he should definitely have his dig feature corrected so that it functions as efficiently as it did in Garden Warfare 1, because it's very, very, very poor by comparison.
I have to show respect purely for the amount of depth and time you've spent into your write up, however I must disagree with you on many counts.
Electro Brainz isn't overpowered? Dude the class is broken, I went from Level 1 and Mastered him in just over 60 minutes. The Electro chain effect does 5 times the damage to everything around what you're hitting, and the range on the arc in massive! The class needs fixing.
Do you want to know why I said Corn is fine? He's like Soldier on Steroids, that's why. His Husk Hop deals 150-200 damage, his Shuck a Shock does 100, and he has Butter barrage and a Chaingun. He has so much bloody damage its not even funny, his only weakness is he moves like a turtle, and I'm not entirely sure why you want to give him super speed and wings, he can already get to places most other Plants can't. He's a clone of the Soldier, slightly weaker ZPG, but Husk Hop to compensate the damage split.
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You haven't said anything wrong, it's just you're missing one fundamental point about GW2. Plants need to attack and all their abilities and primary weapons were designed around defence, all being long range and Gatling, Sunbeam needing to be planted.
What happens when you kill a zombie at range on any map?
Please allow me to answer my own question because the majority of players only seem to play zombies now, what happens is they press the respawn button and start shooting back.
Plants all need to be on par with zombies, not gimped to being defensive characters or all having to hold hands in order to get a kill. That's not balance, it's not fair and it's certainly not fun, especially when broken classes like Elelctro Brainz can chain kill 5 of you at once. If you think that he's not overpowered then you've not actually played the character, but I know you've mastered it.
Now another question, why was Scientist given a heal beam?
This wasn't a bad thing, but it was to help zombies function in garden ops and team play better, to create balance.
I have literally too many questions that detail and completely derail the fact the game is so one sided and favoured towards zombies that it's not even funny, it's a joke. Like seriously, you cannot play GW1 and come onto GW2 and say everything is fine and the classes are balanced.
In case you haven't noticed, the player base is dying and everyone is returning their game for a refund.
I could write an essay here to you but I'm not going to, I'm giving my brain a rest from this madness which will allow me to write up my balance changes and reasons to it all, and if they're not implemented for the most part then I'm probably going find something else to do with my free time because I play games for fun, and major game design flaws and imbalance is not fun for anyone, it makes people upset, frustrated, they come onto the forums and vent frustration only to be faced by zombie lovers and trolls and then quit.
Rose was broken, and anyone with half a brain cell knew she needed fixing, which again in your post above you've said she was buffed too much? A few times you've miss worded something but that's okay. I didn't play Rose at all, I didn't want to add to the mayhem or be labelled as a twit for killing kids with a broken class, but now I'm painfully trying to figure out a way to level a class that is useless, in terms of damage output, weak and can die easily, has no real way of self healing. Sure she has great CC abilities, but why would I care about that garbage if all I want to do is level her up to a point where she might actually be useful to building a teleport and getting a few kills.
My suggestions for Chomper, however ridiculous they sound for you are my suggestions, and my opinion of a quick fix balancing tweak. I must remind you that he will still be unable to kill anything or anyone at range because he's a Chomper, and a melee class. Super Brainz was suppose to be a melee class too but look at him, he can get to places better than the Peashooter, he has range, CC, one shot, dangerous close range and long range attacks and one of the highest health characters in the game.
Balance would be giving the Chomper long range and short range weapons, CC, infinite super jumps etc...
All I suggested was a bit more damage on the bite and health, some damage reduction when chomping someone, hardly game breaking if you ask me. It is clear that you love zombies purely based on your defensive statement about Electro Brainz, and nobody can blame you. Every smart player would play the OP and broken classes and defend them until the end because it's fun to dominate, well that fun is going to end when they fix that broken class. Otherwise everyone will eventually leave and half the remaining zombie players will be forced to play as a plant, and they will eventually leave as well. It's a vicious circle and you need to look outside the box.
Plants need more attacking firepower, more health, and in my opinion if a Pirate can have both a sniper and a shotgun why can't the Cactus? Why can't Cactus have a TNT barrel and a cannon too whilst you're speaking of balance.
If the zombies healing class can warp and have a shotgun and a mega heal bomb that burst heals for 50, why can't sunflower have a warp and a shotgun and some burst healing? If Engineers can hit for 40s and and build teleports and have incredible anti Chomper abilities, why can't the plant equivalent be the same?
If the Imp can transform into a 400 health Mech why can't Plants have an equivalent Robo Mech of their own?
I just don't bloody understand why they gave zombies better everything. It worked in GW1 because Zombies were always attacking, but it doesn't work in GW2 when Plants have to attack.
I don’t mind providing feedback, but just as a heads up, I want to say that I still disagree with just about everything you’re saying, and I (originally) gave some very specific explanations as to why (admittedly) in a massive wall of text. Some of the content in my reply from here on out, by their very nature, can be nothing more than a reiteration of what I already said. But I also don’t have time to go back and forth forever.
- Something being “over powered” is nothing more than an opinion and a person’s opinion can very often be based on flawed thinking or a lack of skill. A good example is how many people thought the Imp’s Mech was “over powered” in the BETA, when you could practically stand toe to toe with it using the Peashooter’s Gatling Gun. Electro Brainz is an excellent character, but his absolute and primary asset is firing on players who cluster together because the damage obviously ping pong’s back and forth off of all of them. If players spread themselves out, his long rang efficiency is so quickly neutralized that his only other options are to get inside – which is another place where he is NOT over powered.
And no, leveling up Electro Brainz using a private match set up you can find on youtube, against bot opponents, is not that hard; I’d agree.
- As far as Kernel Corn goes, I actually believe he’s already fairly solid, but could use some very minor buffs in order to give the Plants a better lead and/or assault character that can push the line. Your points about his Shuck Shot and Husk Hop are completely invalid (at worst) and highly debatable at best. The Husk Hop is really a spectacular move, but you still have to control it very specifically to get maximum damage since it doesn’t automatically track the opponent. Very similar situation with the Shuck Shot because you can quote it’s mathematical damage all day long, but that is with a direct shot which you (usually) have to land on a completely unaware opponent. With that said, the average damage output of the Shuck Shot is going to be based on splash damage, since the majority of shots people try to land with it are going to miss.
- There’s not any “fundamental point” about Garden Warfare 2 that I’ve missed because I’ve broken like 7 different world records on competitive games, and already claimed the multiplayer #1 rank on Garden Warfare 2: http://www.facebook.com/jacob.curnow
Although character properties and what may need an adjustment is all opinion, I can tell you with absolute certainty that I know my fundamentals about both of the Garden Warfare games, especially since I had like a 16.0 K/D on part 2.
All of the Plant abilities are not defensive; that is incorrect. And it’s also incorrect to assume that the only way to play offense is to use a mid to close range weapon.
- The majority of players only use Zombies now? That’s certainly news to me because I play all the time and both sides are usually filled.
- The Scientist was given the heal beam because his core character was (likely) the weakest class in Garden Warfare 1, especially when compared to the Sunflowers excellent support and even assault capabilities. At this point, however, the Scientist and Sunflower classes should get some minor adjustments. The issue with the (current) Scientist is that he’s able to function almost exclusively as a semi-assault character, completely rushing players down in some situations. That’d be fine if he wasn’t a healing class (I wouldn’t even use the term “support”), but when he’s able to play rush down, you have an extremely low tier healer. I played this game for hours today and think I got healed approximately one time by a fellow team mate scientist – mostly because the focus of these players is constantly scanning the environment for people they can successfully run up from behind on and shotgun in the back.
So how do you fix this? Well a creative effort is better than nerfing his weapon, and you have to think outside the box. What I can say is that I use a 200 dollar headset; literally the type you would see NFL head coaches wear, and I know how to read the environment for threats. You obviously do so visually, both for the characters themselves as well as their icons, but you also do so by sound cues. And I can say for certain that it’s very difficult, if not impossible in some situations, to determine whether or not these types of players are behind you until you’re almost dead. One very nice technique was how Monday Night Combat (another TPS) had a stealth/ninja class with an invisibility suit. She was mostly melee, but her invisibility suit made a very slight humming noise that skilled listeners (with a headset) could hear. In Garden Warfare 2, no matter how closely I listen and make sound adjustments, it’s still hard to hear (or see) some of these Scientists running up from behind on you – and I think if they somehow modified that, it would neutralize the rush down.
- Everyone isn’t returning their game for a refund because you cannot return opened video games for a refund due to copyright laws. PSN also does not give refunds on digital purchases, except for rare circumstances. The player base is also about the same as it was at launch…
- I’m also curious why you just said that you’re going to write up a list of balancing issues then stop playing if they’re not implemented. No offense, but are you a tournament level player in third person shooters? Are you a professional tester? Obviously developers are going to listen to feedback, but a lot of what you’re saying is either opinion, lack of experience with the game, or flawed thinking. Keep in mind that developers can’t flinch with every piece of criticism, because not only is that virtually impossible, but it would also break their game.
- Rose being “broken” at launch is just as much of an opinion as is your opinion about Electro Brainz being broken… I personally think she needed some minor adjustments, but yes, I think she was nerfed a bit too much. I still use her current version, of which I already explained how to use in detail, and no; she is not useless in terms of damage output. In fact, in some circumstances you can still even use a form of rush down with her – provided that you have applied some of her upgrades.
- As far as the Chomper is concerned, I think the focus should be to ultimately just correct him (at first), and make him (at least) as efficient as he was in Garden Warfare 1 – particularly when performing the dig and eating Zombies from underneath the ground. YES, if he gets buffed too quickly, he could become nothing more than an “over powered” or “broken” character that people start complaining about. Balancing the game has nothing to do with making the Chomper like Super Brainz; that’s just not true.
- Saying that I exclusively “love zombies” is just plain goofy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S0PcTsiaoA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq4V-o-8Th0
To the contrary, I use just about every single class, and did the same thing in Garden Warfare 1, with the exception of the scientist.
- I would agree that there can still be some adjustments made to the Plants, and even the Zombies side as well, but that’s not what your thread is claiming. You’re thread is (very clearly) suggesting that the Plants size is SO UNDERPOWERED by comparison to the Zombies, in just about every way possible, that the game is imbalanced and broken. And it’s simply not true. And it’s also not true that each class, on each corresponding side, needs to have the same style of weaponry and abilities – all that does is make the game stale.
- Possibly buffing the Sunflower (with a new optional ability or two), in terms of a long range healing device (or something like that), and slightly increased firepower – I may agree with. But no, the two healing classes shouldn’t have identical abilities.
- The Engineer is able to stop the Chomper, and the (current) model of Rose can very effectively stop Super Brainz.
- The Imp’s Mech has so many counters to it that it’s ridiculous; it’s really his form (outside the Mech) that is now hard to deal with.
So after all this, a lot of what you’re saying is just opinion, but a couple things are pretty accurate. If I were to make a fix, I would do this from here:
-Correct the Chomper’s dig ability, and eating function from under the ground. If possible, make his proximity to the camera the same as it was with GW1.
-Buff the Sunflower with more health than the Scientist on average, possibly add in a new ability to help heal your team mates, and possibly add a very, very slight damage output increase.
-Fix the speed of bullets so you don’t have to lead people as much. I’ve also found (a glitch?) where I have my target right on someone firing and the shots just don’t land.
-Create an indication when certain characters are behind you, or similar to boss mode in Garden Warfare 1, some sort of upgrade (or ability) that you can equip to reveal ALL zombies and/or plants.
-Slight upgrade to Kernel Corn’s standard weapon and butter strike.
-I'd probably modify Rose (just slightly) but I'd have to do some more thinking on that one...
Another key change I'd make is make it about 5-15% easier to acquire stars and maybe make it slightly easier to level up, so people can unlock upgrades. If they have daily challenges (providing more stars) they can also increase the experience point output of the fish (by double, triple or more), making it easier to level that way.
Players should also unlock a MASSIVE amount of coins for Mastering a character. The 20,000 coins is good for the different leveling under Master, but when you reach master status, they should give you at least 100,000 coins, but probably more like 250,000 or more.
Ye whilst I agree with zaheen about k/b and mouse seriously skewing scores on console, I also agree with IIINCORRUPTIBLE in regards to balance.
I'm ex-pc as well. I had stop after CoD4 as I was missing out on my daughter growing up - spending way too much time playing scrims, league and cup matches. Besides everything after it was *e. What games did you play competitively? What was your alias? You never know we may have bumped heads before.
Your reply is almost majestic.
Anyway, why are you constantly putting your Facebook profile when you claim to be the world record holder of what exactly? I want to know more about that.
I am watching some of them YouTube videos now, and just for your information. Since you've practically derailed all of my threads, there is a specific reason I'm posting and saying the things that I am.
You don't know me as a player, but if you did, you'd understand and realise that despite your K/D being over 9000 or whatever you claim it is, there will always be someone out there better than you.
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After watching your YouTube videos...
Ah, I get it. You maxed out Rose, and as soon as you spawn you start spamming her thistles at the zombies pre patch. I totally understand why you are trying to derail my thread or my suggestions, if implemented it will potentially cause a hindrance to your so called world record.
I will apologise in advance, but my idea of having fun on a game is not abusing the living daylights out of broken characters for self satisfaction and 'world records'. Please kindly explain to me how you can even begin to claim you're even remotely skillful for doing so? Instead, you're quick to assume that I'm lacking skill based purely on my block of text?
Incredible man, this isn't a personal attack or insult by the way. I stand by all my suggestions and ideas more than ever after watching your YouTube videos.
Also couldn't help notice you're using a mouse and keyboard to further your advantage against other casuals who use a controller. There's nothing skillful about your play style sir, you're just one of those who doesn't care much for balance and just wants to play a fun game where one side will always be better. I have to agree with comments about a game being stale if two sides were identicle but that's never going to be the case in this game, team composition will always be different every game, unless there are major game imbalance like there is now.
Everyone is stacking Scientist and Electro Brainz, on the plants side everyone is stacking Corns.
Which one are you? Obviously Corn, evidently your comments about the damage values I gave were maximum potential values but still, it is possible and even more so with a keyboard and mouse.
I am not a game developer, or professional tester, I'm not a tournament player either. Im a former PC gamer who has been kicked and banned from many titles for simply being too good, I have completely obliterated players with scores of 88-0 and the like when players claim to be the best, from games on the N64 to PC games. I stopped playing competitively when I realised having fun and laughing whilst playing gives me more enjoyment than upsetting others by a hammering them to pieces with broken classes. No, I don't enjoy losing, and yes I do play broken classes if they are and were my favourite anyway but I'm definitely not one to jump ship or jump on the bandwagon.
You won't ever be able to change my mentality, opinions or views, on any game. I play for fun, I help people, I make people laugh and when required I play serious. I'm that guy who will run around the entire map just to find the person who killed me...I'm that type of player.
You don't have to agree with me, and you can stand by your arguments that are heavily weighted around broken classes and K/D values that were obtained with a keyboard and mouse. You might as well have been using an aimbot to get your kills for most of them.
