Plants Suck

I don’t mind providing feedback, but just as a heads up, I want to say that I still disagree with just about everything you’re saying, and I (originally) gave some very specific explanations as to why (admittedly) in a massive wall of text. Some of the content in my reply from here on out, by their very nature, can be nothing more than a reiteration of what I already said. But I also don’t have time to go back and forth forever.

• Something being “over powered” is nothing more than an opinion and a person’s opinion can very often be based on flawed thinking or a lack of skill. A good example is how many people thought the Imp’s Mech was “over powered” in the BETA, when you could practically stand toe to toe with it using the Peashooter’s Gatling Gun. Electro Brainz is an excellent character, but his absolute and primary asset is firing on players who cluster together because the damage obviously ping pong’s back and forth off of all of them. If players spread themselves out, his long rang efficiency is so quickly neutralized that his only other options are to get inside – which is another place where he is NOT over powered.

And no, leveling up Electro Brainz using a private match set up you can find on youtube, against bot opponents, is not that hard; I’d agree.

• As far as Kernel Corn goes, I actually believe he’s already fairly solid, but could use some very minor buffs in order to give the Plants a better lead and/or assault character that can push the line. Your points about his Shuck Shot and Husk Hop are completely invalid (at worst) and highly debatable at best. The Husk Hop is really a spectacular move, but you still have to control it very specifically to get maximum damage since it doesn’t automatically track the opponent. Very similar situation with the Shuck Shot because you can quote it’s mathematical damage all day long, but that is with a direct shot which you (usually) have to land on a completely unaware opponent. With that said, the average damage output of the Shuck Shot is going to be based on splash damage, since the majority of shots people try to land with it are going to miss.

• There’s not any “fundamental point” about Garden Warfare 2 that I’ve missed because I’ve broken like 7 different world records on competitive games, and already claimed the multiplayer #1 rank on Garden Warfare 2: http://www.facebook.com/jacob.curnow

Although character properties and what may need an adjustment is all opinion, I can tell you with absolute certainty that I know my fundamentals about both of the Garden Warfare games, especially since I had like a 16.0 K/D on part 2.

All of the Plant abilities are not defensive; that is incorrect. And it’s also incorrect to assume that the only way to play offense is to use a mid to close range weapon.

• The majority of players only use Zombies now? That’s certainly news to me because I play all the time and both sides are usually filled.

• The Scientist was given the heal beam because his core character was (likely) the weakest class in Garden Warfare 1, especially when compared to the Sunflowers excellent support and even assault capabilities. At this point, however, the Scientist and Sunflower classes should get some minor adjustments. The issue with the (current) Scientist is that he’s able to function almost exclusively as a semi-assault character, completely rushing players down in some situations. That’d be fine if he wasn’t a healing class (I wouldn’t even use the term “support”), but when he’s able to play rush down, you have an extremely low tier healer. I played this game for hours today and think I got healed approximately one time by a fellow team mate scientist – mostly because the focus of these players is constantly scanning the environment for people they can successfully run up from behind on and shotgun in the back.

So how do you fix this? Well a creative effort is better than nerfing his weapon, and you have to think outside the box. What I can say is that I use a 200 dollar headset; literally the type you would see NFL head coaches wear, and I know how to read the environment for threats. You obviously do so visually, both for the characters themselves as well as their icons, but you also do so by sound cues. And I can say for certain that it’s very difficult, if not impossible in some situations, to determine whether or not these types of players are behind you until you’re almost dead. One very nice technique was how Monday Night Combat (another TPS) had a stealth/ninja class with an invisibility suit. She was mostly melee, but her invisibility suit made a very slight humming noise that skilled listeners (with a headset) could hear. In Garden Warfare 2, no matter how closely I listen and make sound adjustments, it’s still hard to hear (or see) some of these Scientists running up from behind on you – and I think if they somehow modified that, it would neutralize the rush down.

• Everyone isn’t returning their game for a refund because you cannot return opened video games for a refund due to copyright laws. PSN also does not give refunds on digital purchases, except for rare circumstances. The player base is also about the same as it was at launch…

• I’m also curious why you just said that you’re going to write up a list of balancing issues then stop playing if they’re not implemented. No offense, but are you a tournament level player in third person shooters? Are you a professional tester? Obviously developers are going to listen to feedback, but a lot of what you’re saying is either opinion, lack of experience with the game, or flawed thinking. Keep in mind that developers can’t flinch with every piece of criticism, because not only is that virtually impossible, but it would also break their game.

• Rose being “broken” at launch is just as much of an opinion as is your opinion about Electro Brainz being broken… I personally think she needed some minor adjustments, but yes, I think she was nerfed a bit too much. I still use her current version, of which I already explained how to use in detail, and no; she is not useless in terms of damage output. In fact, in some circumstances you can still even use a form of rush down with her – provided that you have applied some of her upgrades.

• As far as the Chomper is concerned, I think the focus should be to ultimately just correct him (at first), and make him (at least) as efficient as he was in Garden Warfare 1 – particularly when performing the dig and eating Zombies from underneath the ground. YES, if he gets buffed too quickly, he could become nothing more than an “over powered” or “broken” character that people start complaining about. Balancing the game has nothing to do with making the Chomper like Super Brainz; that’s just not true.

• Saying that I exclusively “love zombies” is just plain goofy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S0PcTsiaoA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq4V-o-8Th0

To the contrary, I use just about every single class, and did the same thing in Garden Warfare 1, with the exception of the scientist.

• I would agree that there can still be some adjustments made to the Plants, and even the Zombies side as well, but that’s not what your thread is claiming. You’re thread is (very clearly) suggesting that the Plants size is SO UNDERPOWERED by comparison to the Zombies, in just about every way possible, that the game is imbalanced and broken. And it’s simply not true. And it’s also not true that each class, on each corresponding side, needs to have the same style of weaponry and abilities – all that does is make the game stale.

• Possibly buffing the Sunflower (with a new optional ability or two), in terms of a long range healing device (or something like that), and slightly increased firepower – I may agree with. But no, the two healing classes shouldn’t have identical abilities.

• The Engineer is able to stop the Chomper, and the (current) model of Rose can very effectively stop Super Brainz.

• The Imp’s Mech has so many counters to it that it’s ridiculous; it’s really his form (outside the Mech) that is now hard to deal with.

So after all this, a lot of what you’re saying is just opinion, but a couple things are pretty accurate. If I were to make a fix, I would do this from here:

-Correct the Chomper’s dig ability, and eating function from under the ground. If possible, make his proximity to the camera the same as it was with GW1.

-Buff the Sunflower with more health than the Scientist on average, possibly add in a new ability to help heal your team mates, and possibly add a very, very slight damage output increase.

-Fix the speed of bullets so you don’t have to lead people as much. I’ve also found (a glitch?) where I have my target right on someone firing and the shots just don’t land.

-Create an indication when certain characters are behind you, or similar to boss mode in Garden Warfare 1, some sort of upgrade (or ability) that you can equip to reveal ALL zombies and/or plants.

-Slight upgrade to Kernel Corn’s standard weapon and butter strike.

-I'd probably modify Rose (just slightly) but I'd have to do some more thinking on that one...