Re: Pay to Win

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@daalnnii wrote:
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Also consider, maybe the level youre at is the one where you belong.  You aren't entitled to make it to legendary. It's more a matchmaking tool than a measure of progress. Legendary is for the strongest players with the most experience and the best decks.  If you don't have all that, then maybe you're taking losses because you're at the level you belong. 

The game is the most f2p ccg out there (of this style) and I wouldn't even call it p2w...  It's more p2 play at a higher level against stronger opponents more regularly.

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Thanks for the overview of the other games. Sounds like you can't DIRECTLY buy the rarest cards you want, in-game (not on secondary markets), for what is relatively a low amount of money as it is in this game. Pick any Legendary card, and you can probably buy it and several super-rare cards for $19.99 or less.

Not sure what you are saying about "the level I belong". Legendary is a CARD TYPE ... not a status. ULTIMATE is the highest league during tourneys (level 50), and I reach that within days of the tourney starting. So not griping at ability to win etc ... especially now that I have been grinding so much for so long. Just saying in this type of game, no one should be able to buy specific cards. Or at least that should have been taken into consideration by the Apple Editors. But in their defense, that "back door" is just that ... it is not obvious on first look. And it still costs a lot of money for a mobile game.

Buy a legendary directly?  When did that become a thing?  The only way even remotely close that that I'm aware of is when you choose to complete premade decks...  Which can be done with in game currency.

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@daalnnii wrote:

Buy a legendary directly?  When did that become a thing?  The only way even remotely close that that I'm aware of is when you choose to complete premade decks...  Which can be done with in game currency.

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Yeap ... that is exactly how you do it. Find the Legendary you want in a premade deck, click "Complete Deck", and when the price in jewels comes up, you can buy enough jewels with real money. So yes, very easy to pay with dollars to directly buy the card(s) of choice that you want ... including Legnedary ones.

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@valandorn wrote:
That's 10x real price you dummie

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First of all, there is zero reason to call people names on a game board. WTH?

Second, I can do math. $99.99 for 15,000 jewels = 150 jewels per $1, or $0.0067 cents per jewel. So what, precisely, is "10x real price" then? Even the MOST expensive bundle -- 200 for $1.99 -- is $0.00995 cents each (basically a penny each).

Just make a budget deck I have a reduced amount of cards yet I always get to taco 49 and I have a decent enough winning ratio so no need to be grumpy dumpy! (0 plants cards and less than a 100 zombie cards)

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@valandorn wrote:

Just make a budget deck I have a reduced amount of cards yet I always get to taco 49 and I have a decent enough winning ratio so no need to be grumpy dumpy! (0 plants cards and less than a 100 zombie cards)

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Not grumpy at all ... no need to call names. You clearly have not read my original post or any of the comments. I have LOTS of cards, and I win all the time. Totally not the point. Take care.

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@TAllenSr wrote:

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@daalnnii wrote:

Buy a legendary directly?  When did that become a thing?  The only way even remotely close that that I'm aware of is when you choose to complete premade decks...  Which can be done with in game currency.

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Yeap ... that is exactly how you do it. Find the Legendary you want in a premade deck, click "Complete Deck", and when the price in jewels comes up, you can buy enough jewels with real money. So yes, very easy to pay with dollars to directly buy the card(s) of choice that you want ... including Legnedary ones.

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Sure, I get your point, but...

While valendorn could have said it without ad hominem, he does make a point, that's crazy expensive with money if you do it with every deck.  Especially considering you can likely save up a good enough amount of gems to do that in a month yourself when a season starts and your diligent in getting all the possible gems.  That only gets faster the more devices you can watch ads from.  So you're paying a good amount to unlock cards faster that you can get relatively quickly for free.

Also...  Somebody has to pay for the game. You notice how there haven't been any new cards or updates in a while?  You think that would be the case if they were making a lot of money?  You want to take away one of their few avenues of making that cash because a person can finish it their deck a few weeks earlier?  

I'd also submit to you that opening those multipacks and creating the cards is a more from those you dismantled is probably a more efficient way if getting the legendaries you actually want.  Sure you may get a free more cards that you didn't have, but you'll get that from free multipacks as well; but you'll have nothing to dismantle for Sparks, and just if those decks are pretty trash anyways, so you likely won't use the free cards you overpaid for.

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@daalnnii wrote:

 

Sure, I get your point, but...

...that's crazy expensive with money if you do it with every deck...

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Absolutely ... I have said since my OP that is nuts that people will spend the money they do. And the fact that some players had all those Legendary within days of launch prove people are willing to do so. I am not "hurt" by it ... just don't think it should be an option.

So since we both seem to be in agreement that you 1.  Can absolutely win without spending money, and 2. Still get the cards quickly without spending money; i'd say the title is a bit deceptive, since you can both win and fill out decks easily and quickly without money.

But, that being said.  This is a business.  How would you monetize the game, since your against buying cards?

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@daalnnii wrote:

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But, that being said.  This is a business.  How would you monetize the game, since your against buying cards?

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I feel like I am repeating myself here, but I will try to say it again ... I am ALL FOR buying cards. And I am ALL FOR the developers making money. Hell, I want them to get RICH making the game better and better.

What I am against, and what I was very specific and consistent about, is the ability to say, "I want THAT card", and being able to buy it directly. Especially the super-rare Legendary cards.

As far as the misleading title, I disagree. It in no way says, "HAVE TO PAY to Win". It just says, "Pay to Win". Meaning you CAN pay to win.

I completely disagree.  Anyone f2p players or paying players can dismantle it use the extreme amount of free gems they get to craft any card they like.  

The way you want it, it would come down to dumb luck.  So what happens when you face that okay that's luckier than you and had all the legendary cards to complete a high level deck, or just suck enough in to buy until the set was complete?  You'd have far less chance of being able to keep up with paying players.  

It's far not balanced with everyone being able to craft those cards.  That is probably the least p2w option in the game.  Everyone can dismantle cards they don't use from free gems to build whatever they like.  So basically everyone can buy whatever legendary cards they need.  Without that, only the highest spending and luckiest players would get wins.

You're acting like you need to spend money for gems, but you can get an almost unlimited about for free depending on how many devices you play with that account on, and easily over 3k in a couple weeks if you're diligent.  So everyone literally had the option to use this function, not just paying players

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. Dismantling to get gems and build is not the same as buying them directly, and in my proposed scenario, you would STILL be able to dismantle all you want and craft SPECIFIC cards. So not sure where your "could randomly get the worst cards" scenario comes into play.

No, you dismantle for Sparks.  You earn gems by watching videos and completing missions and challenges, meaning you can get the same things you would spend money on.  Gems are the currency you pay for to complete premade decks, but you can absolutely get them for free, forever, in large quantities.  That's not even a debate.  It's a fact.

Never said you could not do that. Again, I am just talking about the "back door" where you can BUY ... with real money (which is converted to Gems) ... any specific cards you want for a fixed price you know in advance. That is the ONLY thing I am suggesting they change. Actually, I don't even want them to change it. I was talking about the "early days" when buyers had a HUGE advantage because the rest of us had not had enough time to grind to the same level. And even that was not that bad had it not been promoted as "The most balanced Free to Play game ever". Actually, they called it, "Free to Play Done Perfectly -- Finally".

No reason to keep going back and forth -- either you understand the extremely narrow example I am talking about, and the long-past time frame I was discussing it within -- or you don't.

Sure, but that's a back door even f2p players can use.   So again, how would you moneize it?  You're failing to understand that the premium currency is only pay to get a bit faster, which is you could do buying decks as well, and without the ability to do that, f2p players would be stuck replying on kick to match those whovew spent money too get everything.  This is actually less 22nd than the way you are describing.

Not only that, it's about the least cost effective way to get the cards you want.  I'm far from f2p and would never pay to complete a premade set.  Doesn't even cross my mind.  If rather but packs and spark then out.  More value that way ..  which is again, something every f2p player can do, albeit more slowly.  

The only thing people who are paying are buying is a very short jump start on cards.  Which...  Is still better than every other ccg/tcg in existence . That's why they say this game for this genre is f2p done right.  If you want to see the standard, you really should dl hearthstone.  It's a fun game, but you'll certainly miss the freebies here when you start playing against players that put money in

Not quite ... the prices in Gems I have seen for completing the premade packs do not equate to having to generate 4,000 sparks per Legendary by buying random and disassembling them. Even if it was, it would still at least smell like buying an edge with dollars.

I appreciate all your info and feedback ... it does make me feel a little better. :-)

Hi folks , sorry to say , now I do not have the problem you discuss . I can only confirm each can get the maximum capacity of all cards , both plants and zombies without real money spent . Just watch the video and win the challenges and online games  , spend gems on packs,  convert excessive cards to sparks and create  what ever card you need. I have another problem , having all cards 1004 plants and 1008 zombies I do not know what to do next , on what I can spend gems  .

You can hope, that they will release new cards in near future 🙂

Clarify - when you say soon after game launch, you mean 2 years ago? You posted this 2 weeks ago - so you've been having this issue for 2 years?

I haven't spent any money and have at least 1 of every card. You don't need 4 of the same legendary to win. I'm not a super player but somewhere around 35-42 each season. It's enough. I lose to level 10s and beat 50s sometimes.

If you want a legendary, get 4000 sparks and buy 4 of the same kind. You'll find that doesn't help your chances of winning than having variety.

No one said I had a "problem winning". I am level 50 in the tourneys within a week or two of the start of the new tourney. And as I have said earlier, I have a good collection. The whole "at launch" comment was to point out that people MUST have bought them then because they had NO TIME to "grind" them out like you, I, and others have done since then. It was simply a comment about my feelings on the ability to buy whatever card you want ... I think that should not be an option.

At launch players could not but the cards in the way that bothers you, only packs.  They spent money on many packs to get those cards, or break down cards they didn't need to craft them.  

You're assuming people use that garbage system you don't like (but that is still f2p friendly) to buy individual cards, but it really is an incredible waste of money to do so, especially when gems are free.

Every now and then I check the forums to see if the game has been updated. Guess not. Saw this and I think I'd like to share my 2 cents.

I started playing the game when it first released and ranking up was extremely hard (you had to win 20 games in a row to advance, instead of the current 5). I put about $40 - 60 into the game total to help me out.

After I built up enough cards I could fully maintain myself w/ decent decks. Made ultimate league every season from season 2 onward. Being a plant main, I sold all my zombie legendaries and super rares to be able to buy the specific premade plant decks in order to have multiple legendaries. The bulk load of my purchases were made from selling all my expensive zombie cards... cause I don't care about playing zombie.

The last deck I made was a berry deck. Pretty cheap and extremely OP. Doubt they'll ever patch it anytime soon since they stopped updating the game.

Hope that provides some insight.

TL;DR: I payed money in the beginning to help support this game I love, but ended up not having to do it anymore once I stuck to one side/strategy.

I have a whole separate thread on here about Berries being WAAAAY OP now. :-)