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Souper_Plant's avatar
6 years ago
Solved

Things in the game that might have to be patched(balancement)

I made this post about all the things in the game that looks unbalanced, and i have a feeling that they're kinda unfair, anyone reading this can feel free to reply your thoughts about any of them, so i and everyone reading this post can see that they actually need or not balancing, and why.

*Wizard: It's normal for a recently added character to have unbalanced things, the real dissapointment is that none were fixed in the last patch.
-Primal(uncharged): deals insane dps, way more than a support should do.
-Primal(charged): doesn't deal a significant damage, and it's easy to avoid, it's only use is to hit plants behind cover, but only to delay their health regeneration once, as they'll probably get smarter for the next spheres, it's not even userfull with the upgrade that makes it slows enemies.
-Spell disaster: no matter how close you are from the plant, it'll always shoot spheres at random directions, and will randomly target enemies or not, sometimes i use this attack at close targets and they don't get hit.
-Co-star: i think that it's cooldown have to be slighly slower, and i really hate when i tries to switch to another zombies, but leaves the co-star form accidentally, there's already a key to cancel abilities, i also think that it could be used to warp a certain distance when not aiming to a zombie, which would normally consume the ability, it would give wizard an escape option, maybe it could be exclusive from some upgrade.

*Pirate and cactus: both have the same issue, of being way too deadly at long range, and completely doomed at close range, it makes sense, but i think that it's way too much for each.
-Primal: for some reason way really low dps, i know that it's this way so they won't be used mostly for close combat, but they can't use it even for self defense, they're just terrible attacks, they can't even kill targets with lower health.
-secoundary: insanely powerfull, they should get either a reduced damage, reduced fire speed or reduced charge speed, any of them, they can kill most enemies at only two hits, whitout having to be a fully charged one for the secound, and it's not that hard to miss with them, even the critical damage that can 1 hit kill weak plants.
-3rd ability: their use is most for mobility, but their massive biggest use is for reaching higher rates, i know that it gives them an advantage, but isn't it dumb to make an ability only for that, their other uses is that cactus' can temporarily avoid damage while ascending, and pirate can deal big damage with the anchor(after the patch), but they actually slows them with their uses, i think that they should give a speed boost during their uses to give them a better chance of escaping alive from enemies that reaches them, and to fit perfecly the balancing ideas i gave before
-drone 2nd ability: this time, for each it's unbalanced to a different side, the garlic drone version deals low damage with this ability, even by hitting direcly all of the cobs at the target, it also requires the garlic drone to stay alive to deal max damage, and the parrot deals great and instant damage with it's version of the ability, being able to easily kill instantly plants due to the parrot's stealthness. My ideas is that the garlic drone would get a buff for either the direct and splash damage of each of it's cobs, as it's still hard to hit direcly with it, and it would keep firing cobs after destroyed, just like z-mech does with the missle madness, and pirate would have a slighly longer delay before releasing the egg bomb, and he would also make a lazer come from it's eye before using it, it don't deal damage but points at where will it land, and will also warn the plants so they'll have a chance of avoiding it.
-Barrel blast(pirate): this ability got really useless once the barrel health was nerfed, since the barrel became really fragile, and it's explosion range is extremelly low, even against a single plant it has low chances of hitting, and can't even be used for escape, my idea is that it would get more health, but a bigger delay of either the time taken to activate the wick or exploding, any of them.

*Chomper: Comparing to the characters mentioned before, the issues aren't so big for chomper, he's a fine character, possibly better than in gw 1 and 2 as he's no longer completely doomed in long range, and can no longer eat zombies while using the primal, which was a big problem when attacking zombies in group, those are just problems that i think that would be better if fixed.
-Secoundary: I'm glad chomper got a long range attack, but it's possibly slighly stronger than it should, making it a better option than his close range primal attack, which were supposed to be his better use, the nerf it got wasn't much, my idea is that it should get a slower firing rate, and i think that the primal may get a little buff, it can easily and quickly kill zombies at close range already, but maybe it needs a slight buff in it's damage, just maybe.
-Spikeweed: It's just a worse potato mine, as it has no kill potential, it's a trap but can't kill only by itself, and can only be stacked up to 2, the fact of being ranged doesn't help, i'm not sure about how could it be improved.

*Corn: The issue with corn is due to his max health, i don't get where the idea of reducing his hp back to 125 came from, as it were already changed to 150 in gw 2, he's not just one of the most attacker plant classes, but he's also the tallest plant, and for some reason kernel corn keeps losing to soldier in the title screen, even after using husk hop with every hit of it landing on foot soldier, and soldier only uses his smoke bomb and zpg, kernel corn rarely ever win this combat, and for some reason 80s action hero has more hp than corn even from the fact of being a more ranged character, along with this increase of health, kernel corn's general damage could be slightly reduced if necessary.

*Foot soldier: As i mentioned before, in the title screen foot soldier rarely lost to kernel corn even in the mentioned situation, and it's obviously because of his primal, and with all of my gameplay of soldier i can admit that i could kill a lot of plants in a group of plants with his primal whitout dying, it has a really insande dps, and it also has a upgrade that buffs even more his fire rate. Another possible problem with foot soldier is with the rocket jump, as in gw 1 and 2 it were a bad ability, people possibly never complained about it because there were rocket leap, which were really userfull, i think that rocket jump could be stacked up to 2 uses, still maintaining it's cooldown, i never really had problems with it but it may be the best option

*Scientist: The only problem is with his warp, he can basically keep using this ability to reach it's objective and take cover whitout any penalty, i'm fine with the stack number of it, the real problem is it's fast cooldown, i forgot if this ability got any nerf in the last patch, if it got so please let me know.

*Rose: Despiste being a support, she don't have much uses for helping their team, she's mostly used to attack by herself and retreat when needed, all she can do to help is debuff a single zombie and boost the speed of her teamates while retreating
-Jynx: not really userfull, it only affects a single enemy, and it's removed when the same target is turned into a goat, i think that it should have an area of effect, and not removed if the enemy gets goatfied, and maybe slows down a bit the affected enemies, by the cost of a slight nerf for it's debuff effect
-Arcane enigma: can be used almost instantly, has an insanely long duration and speed, roses can just avoid any trouble by using it and escaping to any cover, it could get a slower delay before being actived, and a slower duration and movement speed

*Stages: those are problems of the stages from any gamemode of the game, some may need a change in the stage
-Giddy park safe zone: enemies can hit plants in a huge area inside it, even where the enemie attacks can't reach, they can still kill through abilities that have an area of effect or damage, like oak's sap trap, i think that the field that allows only the respective team to enter should also block enemy bullets and attacks.
-Goopy gully plants' safezone: it's really close to the capture point, making it almost a garanted capture, as plants will instantly be fully healed by getting inside the zone, zombies will only avoid this capture if they're in bigger number than plants, and the plants are dumb enough to don't take cover in the safe zone.
-Plants' spawn in Loggy Acres: It's almost 2 areas away from the capture point, giving zombies a massive advantage and time to push the payload as plants would take much longer to reach it.
-Trolley target shooting: if players are lucky enough, it'll end AFTER ONE HOUR, but if they want any other event they'll have to join another lobby, it's really stupid this duration for a giddy park event.

Those were all the unbalancing problems with the game, i know that many people are complaining about changes in bfn, personally i liked most of them, like the sprint which is really userfull and cool, and i understand the removal of variants, as it's better to have more space for different characters than just variants of the same character where the only differences are the appearence and primal attack, but some changes i can't understand, as it can be seen from my complains about rose and kernel corn , the same mistakes commited in pre-patched gw 2 are being repeated, but i'm glad that the game is getting constantly patched, and if the dev team keep listening to most of the community at least, they can be known about the issues present in the game and patch them if necessary.

  • Wizard:

    Primary

    -The general dps of the primary isnt even all that strong, the issue with it is rather in the fact that this dps stays consistent over long ranges.

    This issue should rather get fixed, by either reducing projectile speed, or adding falloff.

    Charged shot

    -"Its only use is to hit plants behind cover"

    Yea thats what its used for, or for shooting into a group of enemies while pointfighting.

    The general dmg it doesnt isnt even that low, since it hits about the same amount of a uncharged crit, or even more. The only issue that I see with it, is the charge time being a bit too high.

    Spell disaster

    -You are using a 80dmg burst ability on a support.

    Not being reliable is the least that they do to it.

    This also slightly helps to reduce the amount of suicide spell distaster wizards that you will see.

    -Co star

    The ability already allows for really powerfull combos, and reducing the cooldown would make it even stronger and also reduce the downside of being ejected from it, wich is one of the few counterplays a good wizard & sb combo has.

    Also wizard is a support that is supposed to stay close to his teammates and a warp would not only be used too selfishly for lone wolf players

    and it would also go against the class design of wizard, that is all built around staying near teammates.

    Snipers

    The issue isnt there

    The role of a sniper works like that by design

    A sniper wins all long range engagements against non snipers, but looses against all other classes up close, if the player isnt highly skilled. Snipers also tend to have lacking abilities and mobility, to ensure that they can be flanked.

    Here a few examples:

    -Tf2 sniper

    Can oneshot everything with a medium charge/firerate

    Only has his machete or the smg to defend himself, wich is not very powerfull, even on short ranges

    -Csgo awp

    Can oneshot everyone with a good firerate

    Takes good aim to use

    Player has no other primary and might need need to use his pistol, or the increadibly unacurate awp unscoped in close range

    -Kinnesa paladins

    2 shots most classes with a fast charge rate

    Unscoped is the worst weapon in the game

    Movement ability is good for reaching highgrounds, bur lacluster to escape, since all flankers have mobility options way better than her

    This is how snipers in games work

    Primary

    -As a sniper main with both snipers at gm5 for some time now I can tell you that unscoped is still fairly good at killing bad flankers, and thats what the weapon is for. You will loose against good flanker players by design and thats okay.

    If you dont wanna die against good flankers, you need your team to kill them before they reach you, or kill them yourself, or be lucky.

    Charged

    You basically descriped how snipers work.

    Snipers are the best classes longrange and cant be beaten that way. Keep in mind that BfN snipers arent even all that strong compared to the skill/efficiency

    ceiling that other games like OW, Paladins or Tf2 have. Also important is, that snipers glow when they are charging up and leave a fairly obvious bullet trail behind, wich makes it easy to know where the sniper is. If you are a class that cant flank you can just pay attention to the position of the sniper and move outside of his sightline, wich are btw fairly limited, since popcap put alot of invisible walls up so that sniper dont even have that many options for sightlines. Another thing is that the charge for a shot takes 3s, meaning that sniper ttk is around 4s wich is pretty high compared to most classes, even if the sniper dmg comes in bursts.

    Movement ability

    -Snipers only have movement abilities in order to reach highgrounds and not to efficiently escape, since that would make them less flankable.

    The only issue that I see with the abilties rn is that ancor's path tends to be weird and that cactus takes to long to reach highground.

    (Another issue would be the lack of highground/even highground for both sides, but idk if popcap will ever do map reworks)

    Drones

    -Keeping bulb barrage shooting would eliminate all of the risk, and bad idea, since it would just be used as a crutch for being bad at sniping and it wouldnt fix the real issue with drones.

    -Drones have almost no use

    A good player is way better with sniping, than he would ever be by using the drone.

    This ends up making the drone fairly useless and only being sometimes used for the ability.

    One way of making drones viable, while not making them to strong would be to make their abilities support based. Something along the lines of a reveal ability or a ability that functions like jinx.

    The snipers would profit of that and be able to help their team defend.

    This would make the drones usable on all levels of play, while keeping them at a power at wich they dont annoy other people.

    Barrel

    Its a defensive ability, it shouldnt be used for actuall killing, but rather for defensive purposes.

    And just higher health wouldnt fix it.

    The best fix would most likely be that he doesnt loose his momentum if the barrel would get destroyed and the ability for the barrel to fully take his, so that a hit that destroyes barrel only destroys barrel and doesnt hit DB aswell.

    Corn

    Corns health got reduced, since he is the equivalent to soldier as a rapid fire generalist

    Soldier

    You are saying that soldier is too strong, but you also wanna buff him ?

    Safezones

    The safezones and spawns are made in a way to ensure that the game goes on to reach the last point.

    Since a satisfiying game is a game that reaches the last point and then one side wins by a slight margin.

    The first point should always be favored for the attackers to ensure the capturing of the first objective.

4 Replies

  • I have to disagree with a lot of these changes, not only are you basing changes off of the characters appearance you also seem to be basing it off of the title screen fights? I also have to say snipers arent that bad at all, yeah they have some pretty lacking primaries but they can and will win fights with their primary fire, Their scopes are perfect as well, its pretty simple and is effective whilst not being too powerful. Wizard is fine, really only think thats needed is a spell disaster change, nothing too significant. Chomper is a fantastic representation of the fact they can balance BFN so much easier, his primary is balanced, secondary is balanced (although it can snipe a bit too well, would change with fall off), and the rest are are balanced anyway (I shouldnt need to address soldier, his problems are very visible).

    These are just my opinions right now. 

  • Souper_Plant's avatar
    Souper_Plant
    6 years ago

    Thanks for your feedback, i know that about snipers, but i think that they might be too overpowered at long range, and vunerable at close range, and i think that they might get a slight nerf in their ranged attack, and better escaping options in case of a zombie reaching them, and most of their abilities and attacks besides sniper attack, potato mines and drones(except for garlic drone's 2nd ability) being almost useless, and for chomper i just think that it's ranged attack might be better than it's close range attack, which were supposed to be his speciality, but nothing that a slight decrease of it's fire rate wouldn't solve, and i mentioned already that i really prefer the bfn chomper over gw chomper.
    But i still appreciate your feedback about my post, so we can see different sides of the community, and i recommend you to play more against and as sniper classes to see how terrible it is to deal with them, and how easily will you vanquish as them.

  • Wizard:

    Primary

    -The general dps of the primary isnt even all that strong, the issue with it is rather in the fact that this dps stays consistent over long ranges.

    This issue should rather get fixed, by either reducing projectile speed, or adding falloff.

    Charged shot

    -"Its only use is to hit plants behind cover"

    Yea thats what its used for, or for shooting into a group of enemies while pointfighting.

    The general dmg it doesnt isnt even that low, since it hits about the same amount of a uncharged crit, or even more. The only issue that I see with it, is the charge time being a bit too high.

    Spell disaster

    -You are using a 80dmg burst ability on a support.

    Not being reliable is the least that they do to it.

    This also slightly helps to reduce the amount of suicide spell distaster wizards that you will see.

    -Co star

    The ability already allows for really powerfull combos, and reducing the cooldown would make it even stronger and also reduce the downside of being ejected from it, wich is one of the few counterplays a good wizard & sb combo has.

    Also wizard is a support that is supposed to stay close to his teammates and a warp would not only be used too selfishly for lone wolf players

    and it would also go against the class design of wizard, that is all built around staying near teammates.

    Snipers

    The issue isnt there

    The role of a sniper works like that by design

    A sniper wins all long range engagements against non snipers, but looses against all other classes up close, if the player isnt highly skilled. Snipers also tend to have lacking abilities and mobility, to ensure that they can be flanked.

    Here a few examples:

    -Tf2 sniper

    Can oneshot everything with a medium charge/firerate

    Only has his machete or the smg to defend himself, wich is not very powerfull, even on short ranges

    -Csgo awp

    Can oneshot everyone with a good firerate

    Takes good aim to use

    Player has no other primary and might need need to use his pistol, or the increadibly unacurate awp unscoped in close range

    -Kinnesa paladins

    2 shots most classes with a fast charge rate

    Unscoped is the worst weapon in the game

    Movement ability is good for reaching highgrounds, bur lacluster to escape, since all flankers have mobility options way better than her

    This is how snipers in games work

    Primary

    -As a sniper main with both snipers at gm5 for some time now I can tell you that unscoped is still fairly good at killing bad flankers, and thats what the weapon is for. You will loose against good flanker players by design and thats okay.

    If you dont wanna die against good flankers, you need your team to kill them before they reach you, or kill them yourself, or be lucky.

    Charged

    You basically descriped how snipers work.

    Snipers are the best classes longrange and cant be beaten that way. Keep in mind that BfN snipers arent even all that strong compared to the skill/efficiency

    ceiling that other games like OW, Paladins or Tf2 have. Also important is, that snipers glow when they are charging up and leave a fairly obvious bullet trail behind, wich makes it easy to know where the sniper is. If you are a class that cant flank you can just pay attention to the position of the sniper and move outside of his sightline, wich are btw fairly limited, since popcap put alot of invisible walls up so that sniper dont even have that many options for sightlines. Another thing is that the charge for a shot takes 3s, meaning that sniper ttk is around 4s wich is pretty high compared to most classes, even if the sniper dmg comes in bursts.

    Movement ability

    -Snipers only have movement abilities in order to reach highgrounds and not to efficiently escape, since that would make them less flankable.

    The only issue that I see with the abilties rn is that ancor's path tends to be weird and that cactus takes to long to reach highground.

    (Another issue would be the lack of highground/even highground for both sides, but idk if popcap will ever do map reworks)

    Drones

    -Keeping bulb barrage shooting would eliminate all of the risk, and bad idea, since it would just be used as a crutch for being bad at sniping and it wouldnt fix the real issue with drones.

    -Drones have almost no use

    A good player is way better with sniping, than he would ever be by using the drone.

    This ends up making the drone fairly useless and only being sometimes used for the ability.

    One way of making drones viable, while not making them to strong would be to make their abilities support based. Something along the lines of a reveal ability or a ability that functions like jinx.

    The snipers would profit of that and be able to help their team defend.

    This would make the drones usable on all levels of play, while keeping them at a power at wich they dont annoy other people.

    Barrel

    Its a defensive ability, it shouldnt be used for actuall killing, but rather for defensive purposes.

    And just higher health wouldnt fix it.

    The best fix would most likely be that he doesnt loose his momentum if the barrel would get destroyed and the ability for the barrel to fully take his, so that a hit that destroyes barrel only destroys barrel and doesnt hit DB aswell.

    Corn

    Corns health got reduced, since he is the equivalent to soldier as a rapid fire generalist

    Soldier

    You are saying that soldier is too strong, but you also wanna buff him ?

    Safezones

    The safezones and spawns are made in a way to ensure that the game goes on to reach the last point.

    Since a satisfiying game is a game that reaches the last point and then one side wins by a slight margin.

    The first point should always be favored for the attackers to ensure the capturing of the first objective.

  • Please read the full text before saying that i don't like anything from any character the way it is, don't anyone knows the meaning of "slight"? i'm just asking for small changes in the mentioned characters, they already work pretty fine, except pirate and cactus, i want to choke every sniper player, they basically 1 shot everything, with their insane fire rate and damage of charged attacks, basically they don't even have to stay far away from the target, they can be lethal in any occasion, and i'm also asking changes for stuff that are extremelly annoying in those characters, like spell disaster not hitting plants sometimes no matter the distance they are, it depends more of luck than else, and co-star leaving the form when you tries to switch to another zombie, it's something really annoying, and there's already a key to cancel abilities, also have you ever compared the damage of the 2nd ability of cactus and pirate drones? one is terrible and the other is free vanquishes, i understand the point of a sniper, so i guess that the best change for them is to the mouse sensibility while using them, i guess it's kinda easy to even land a critical max charged shot

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