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IIINCORRUPTIBLE's avatar
9 years ago

Updated Tier List

Just got done nearly mastering Alien Flower, she is:

Alien Flower= C Minus Tier

Rose= Somewhere in S Tier

Standard Cactus= Somewhere in S Tier

Freeze Soldier= Somewhere in A or S Tier

AC Perry= Somewhere in A or S Tier

Twitch.tv/iiice_cold

10 Replies

  • So I am building an elite tier list for ALL 119 characters in the game that are unlockable through GW2, obviously minus the Unicorn who you only unlock through GW1. This requires me to master every character in the game and then evaluate them with math, science, and experienced opinion on how they grade on a scale of overall efficiency. I will also be making a brief guide on how to use every character (on video), and things are moving along VERY quickly. I recently mastered every single plant, and I am not onto zombies, having already mastered about 20 zombies prior to yesterday, and I'm averaging at least one mastered character per day -- sometimes two, and rarely three.

    Just mastered that General Soldier today from scratch and will likely start the Sky Trooper in a few, and will start stream once controller recharges.

  • asukojo's avatar
    asukojo
    9 years ago

    For me, I care less about tier category, but I like to see your video about how to use every character. Even though I've mastered more than half of them, I still like to see other people perspective, strategy, tips, technique, etc. It's always good to learn. 

  • dwooten77's avatar
    dwooten77
    9 years ago
    I'm a little skeptical of this. There's just too many different variables in this game to say how a player should be used. You're obviously putting a lot of work in, so I'll wait to see the videos to see how it goes. A tier list to me depends on the level and quality of opponents. Like the alien flower, I believe you gave her a poor grade. With that I personally disagree. Most will agree with you on the alien flower, but I think that's do to not putting in time. It's on thing to master a character by the games standards. It's another to truly master a character gameplay wise. I can appreciate the effort you're putting into this, can't wait to see the videos.
  • @dwooten77

    The videos are going to be relatively generalized, but the written tier lists on my web sites are going to classify each character according to a tier, and then later give explanations as to why they are listed in that tier. Keep in mind that, just like any credible tier list, they are based on science, math, as well as OPINION -- the latter part of which is necessary to emphasize. Although tier lists are an opinion, the credible ones obviously being put forward by skilled players, mine will probably be the most credible one out there. I'm not bragging, but I've been playing competitive games for 15 plus years, have broken 12 world records, and taken multiple number 1 ranks. I absolutely know how to break down the game to a very technical level, but my tier list isn't going to get SUPER technical with the exact math on each characters damage because I'm not being paid. The reason is because the math can change in obscure ways from character to character based on range, splash, damage upgrades ectetera, and I'm just not going to get exact measurements on every little damage detail. Good example is how some characters have a static rate of damage (regardless of range), others do not, and how something like the Rock Pea does a form of fracturing damage where the rock breaks apart on contact with an enemy and does two sets of damage. I just don't have time to measure every little mathematical detail with that, because some of it I don't know exactly how it works. With most of it, however, it's relatively self explanatory.

    1) dwooten77 says: "tier lists depend on the quality of opponents"... That's somewhat debatable, but there are two points here:

    a) Garden Warfare 2 is not featured in any MAJOR tournaments with massive prize pools, which means that virtually all of the world class players are going to exclusively be online... That said, an online player can (and will) run into players of low, middle, and elite levels of skill.

    b) Team games are also alot different from creating a tier list in 1 versus 1 fighting games because you're not always going to have to have a direct (full life to full life/master vs master) exchange with another good player. Sometimes the "good" player will cherry pick you after you win a 3 on 1, or it can even work the other way. So the tier list is constructed, in part, based on a characters OVERALL EFFICIENCY in a team based environment.

    2) The Alien Flower, on a tier list, I'd put at C- (C Minus), as in around low mid tier because it's based on a comparison of her to other Sunflowers, as well as other poison variants. She is technically listed as leaving out "spores" after her shots, but she is basically a poison variant that leaves that little lingering element of splash damage behind. The reason why I'd put her at low tier is:

    a) She fires semi-automatic shots, unlike other splash damage poison variants like Toxic Citron and Park Ranger, who have fully automatic weapons and produce the same effect.

    b) She's pretty terrible in close range 1 on 1's.

    c) She's weak at taking down drones (parrot).

    d) Her damage isn't that high, even with upgrades.

    e) And she has low health.

    So she really is built to just sit back and cherry pick people. Even a turbo controller doesn't help her out like it can do with characters like the Fire Soldier (Centurion) or the Z7 Imp. So always keep in mind that a tier list is a comparison, and her compared to someone like Toxic Citron just makes her look horrible. And yes, there are certain people that can use mid-tier, or even horrible characters, and be good with them.

    Other factors to take into account when building the tier list is the interesting fact that the Jade Cactus' actual featured attribute is supposed to be the fact that she has upgraded health (150), at the expense of reduced speed. Granted, this is a solid character, but the Petrified Cactus has the same base line level of health and same slow walking, so I'm still confused on that one, but I'm well aware that the additional health for the Petrified version is because she's meant to get in close on opponents.

    Speaking of Cactuses, the Camo Cactus might be the lowest grade character I've found yet (maybe at D minus/D-). Again, it's all about comparison:

    Camo Cactus: 5 in the clip with no clip upgrade, has a very slow zoom, bad at no scoping and/or quick scoping, and she gets a useless penetration upgrade. Her damage upgrade brings her critical up to like 66, but the standard cactus (with damage upgrade) does 33 on critical and 27 on non-critical with a much faster rate of fire and far better clip size. So in 2 shots you do what the Camo Cactus does, but with a better rate of fire, etcetera.

    You can also fight people mid range while they're rushing with the standard cactus. Sure, some wizard with the Camo Cactus can probably practice no-scoping close range long enough to get good with it, but why work on using a bad character compared to one who is so much better?

    Camo Cactus= D- Tier

    Standard Cactus= S Tier

    Good news about some of the Legendary characters is that Party/Legendary Citron is very solid, and the new Legendary Commando Corn is excellent also. I don't think the Scallywag is that great outside of his usual Imp advantage of having great mobility and a small hitbox, but if you tag him with a goop and chomp him three times, he's toast. Same if he gets EMP'd by (any) Citron before the Imp lands a gravity grenade. He's not really low tier though because he has a pretty solid mech.

  • xcrimsonlegendx's avatar
    xcrimsonlegendx
    9 years ago

    I've never really put much faith in tier lists, players can influence the game to much for them to be reliable. I've seen players who can dominate with the so called "worst" classes and others fall flat while using the "best" of them.

  • slimyostrich51's avatar
    slimyostrich51
    9 years ago

    I'm going to have to strongly disagree with the camo cactus part, as well as the alien flower. every character has their strength and weaknesses. example: the camo cactus is the best very long range character in the game imo, and has a much nicer damage per shot the the standard cactus. and the alien flower is great for holding chokepoints.

    of course I may be biased: the camo cactus is my favorite and most played character in the game 🙂

  • pandareno1999's avatar
    pandareno1999
    Hero+
    9 years ago

    I think tier lists can be very helpful to inexperienced players.  I remember a couple of them helped me select which variants might be easiest to get used to when playing a new class.  Even if I didn't choose their top choice, I had an idea of their strengths and weaknesses.

    Experienced players already know which variants are the ones that work for them, and mostly will just argue with the choices made in the tier list because, as pointed out, varying play styles will bring about different choices.  I've also found that tier lists generally lean toward which characters can get the most vanquishes, vs. contributing to the objective.

  • The camo cactus is far from the lowest tier if you ask me. On certain maps with lots of open space she can be pretty deadly in the hands of someone who can aim.  zombies can't really get to her unless they snipe back (which i say the camo cactus still has the advantage there) or try to rush into the plant's base which will only get them vanquished by the other plants trying to do so. Often when i do use the camo cactus i'm usually on the board for the highest streak and most of the time no deaths at all.

    Alien flower i would also rate a little higher. She isn't bad in close combat since her spore mist will still hit her attacker but she works best from long range attacking capture areas with groups of zombies near or in them. It'll force them to scatter most of the time which gives your team an easier time to push and capture the zone since they won't be in it taking damage. She is more of a support type than a damage dealer

  • IronCatFish47's avatar
    IronCatFish47
    9 years ago

    I'm gonna go with @dwooten77 here on this, particularly with what he says about the camo and alien variations.

    The alien flower is weak because her spore effect is no good on moving targets from mid-long range and the shot dmg on impact is low as well.  She is great for crippling or KOing campers where the spores can take their max effect.  From an elevated position, she her spore effect is more effective on targets even if they are moving as long as they are in the space of spores. 

     She should not try to engage in long range 1vs1s against soldiers and deadbeards unless she got the initiative.  Up close is dangerous unless the players can punt their shots so the spores are in play, but she is still at a disadvantage. 

    The camo cactus effectiveness is crippled by slow zoom, slow reload and no clip upgrade.  Not to mention this useless penetration upgrade that had better not be in GW3.  She is also inadvertently effected by the ability to 100% health regen.  The threat she possessed in GW1 is she could OHKO crippled campers or zombies in need of heals.  She has no effectiveness against mechs and the slow zoom makes it difficult to take out parrots that are targeting her.  Having only five ammo also makes taking out heroes or all-stars difficult.  It takes a LONG time to crit something four times with a camo cactus and having only five ammo means you better be accurate.

  • Folks I will give more details maybe later, and some of it is opinion, but a tier list is still a comparison of characters compared to others... So even if the Alien Flower was good, there are characters in the game that are just so much better which is why I put her somewhere in C Tier... Think about a mastered AC Perry versus a master Alien Flower up close. It is, to put it nicely, an uphill battle for the flower. In terms of Camo Cactus, it's only advantage is deep/deep far back range, and a skilled player knows all 120 classes in the game, they just ID the character by its look, or if its customized, but its snout or firing style. Then you simply don't stand in front of it. But again, we're dealing with simple math here. Standard Cactus does 33 critical and 27 non-critical with the damage upgrade, fires alot cleaner, has a better zoom, and a better clip. You can do the same amount of damage in about the same time frame, maybe even faster... Camo is just not a good Cactus, and people who think they would beat me up close with it on a regular basis are mistaken. I didn't just randomly master my characters in private match/turf takeover -- I've done all of them in real online multiplayer matches to test them against real people. I virtually never have trouble with the Camo Cactus or Alien Flower...

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