Why Zombies are not OP
I feel all the hate thrown out by all you garden lovers is slightly exaggerated as recently I have witnessed plants conquering over the Turf Takeover and more often then not team death matches... Now...
Forum Discussion
@Unfadeable777
At the moment anyway plants seems to win more since the rosenerf patch.
On origin the situation is not any dramatical and the meta is much more balanced as far as can i tell you. Something must to be changed, but minor variations will eventually adjust everything.
Also, for your complain as Imps, i'm an Imp player. I'm agree with you is broken, but is not that bad as you claim, There are many ways to shut him down, is just little bit annoying to play against, but it's still the most squishy frontline in the entire game. He need to get close to his targets and has only a gravity grenade to self-protect his-self in a difficult situation.
The only problem with Imp is the fact now with so much life is not more an high risk high reward character for veterans but affordable for everyone, and since many persons are spamming it, a lots of people are just getting tired.
I play him and whenever i play on the plant side i have not that much problem cause i know his weak points ^^
Fire classes zone him from the frontline (BBQ especially) Spray Chompers and Chompers are hard to deal with, PeaShooter with blast radius can hit you without aiming too much.
Rose is still decent to kill imp with Arcane Enigma and a couple of hits, and Regular Citron just counter him perfectly with the splash damage beam, not to mention Empeach stuns you and deal damage too... at the moment is a little bit annoying because he forces you to pick classes you don't want to play, but has still some weak points ^^'
And next patch will be probably worst for him if Rose and Citron get a buff.
I never said any character was badly broken or had some HUGE advantage. You cant find a single post of me suggesting some radical change to ANY character. I play mostly plants (not of choice but losers switch and I am stuck using them) and do very, very well. I can kill with any character and never change characters during a match. (though I do suck with flower lol)
My only issues are...
A) People saying the game is balanced when it is obviously not.
2) People saying plants win as much or more than zombies.
And D) People making excuses on why plants don't win. (teamwork, CC use, strategy, changing characters to counter...etc) When you can play zombies however you want and wreck Shiz. Other issues like people saying rose and flower shouldn't deal good dmg while scientist and engineer pound out damage just make me laugh. I know those who say that are just zombie lovers and don't want a good balanced game.
- Approved
@Unfadeable777 Clearly they re just making an excuse, but the lack of Electro Brainz on origin (you barely see 1 in match) make the match extremely more enjoyable, while on console the situation is infernal because 2+ electro brainz makes you hate the game for sure.
What am i saying, is, once Electro Brainz will be out most of the unbalance will come out.
For the Rose and Sunflower, clearly not all character should do the same damage, as long as they have more way to impact the game it's ok.
Rose at the moment lacks survavibility more than impact.. and yes sunflowers seems like a useless plant, i suggested some more way to make him stronger in a thread. - ApprovedI'm sorry to tell that to you, but in team vased shooters, team composition matters. For the Zombies, it doesn't seem so important, as every Zombie has at least one powerful damage ability and they deal a lot of damage in close range fights, which gives you the illusion that they don't need to work together. But even as the Zombies, team composition can have a huge impact on the outcome of the game. The Plants are clearly less effective when fighting in groups (Citron and Corn being the exeption), but they are so much more effective when playing together (granted, this happens almost never in pubs, but when it does, RIP in Pepperoni Zombies). And than theor is just this thing called counter picking. The enemy team stacks up on Imps, Scientists and Super Brainz? Better use Citron and Rose to counter them. Footsoldiers and All-Stars? Corn and Chonper will rip and tear trough them. Deadbeards and Engineers murder you? Cacti and Peashooters are the answer. The Plants stand more of a chance to win if they counter the Zombies, or at least, they will get some kills. But wait, counter picking means you need to switch from your beloved Corns. What a crime against human rights.
- Approved@Unfadeable777
Listen I gave you a sample of games I played over the last couple weeks. It so happened plants won more of those games. 2 weeks previous to that I don't remember exactly numbers but zombies won more often then not. The point I was making is that as others have just stated it's not overwhelming zombies winning these games, because the balance is not that far off. You stating that zombies win 5x more then plants is just not what I experience.
I need to go through the rest of comments before I post more but let me finish by saying this. I play predominately turf takeover multiplayer as well as lots of ops with my wife and daughter. I really enjoy this game and it's predecessor and the last thing I want to see is it fail. Which is why I'm urging people to approach nerfs and buffs very cautiously. It is impossible to balance 100 variants so that any one of them will perform equally well in any given situation. This is why metas form and why good groups team build. Atm this is incredibly important for plants groups but not so much for the zombies. Nerfing half the zombies and buffing lots of plants isn't the solution I'm not sure what is.
And personally I don't friend people who go on the attack and call people loser and whatnot for voicing their opinions on a public forum. Being passionate about a game is great but you should take a second to review your posts and leave out the insults. - Approved
say they are not op zombies if you're an experienced player and know how to see the damage calculating and comparing this with other classes and winning percentage these can say that the zombies dominate the GW2 now and in that time plants dominated the GW1 the which in GW1 and this all balanced but now with the release of new classes and variants past classes some need a buff and new special zombies need a good nerf because now dominate the plants no class or variant this op. probably the only plant that is op BBQ Corn is but I think not why their damage is good because they are plant does not have improved damage so okay so.
- Approved
Actually I didn't insult you at all. I openly stated first and foremost that I had no idea what you were. If you really experience these things and believe it or you were a troll or loser. AND I gave you my information so you could prove your points BECAUSE I was not sure and wanted to know. When Rose was op I played TONS of matches where zombies made it to the end in turf or stopped plants at the first objective. But that didn't mean that she wasn't op. I could use her myself and see that plain as day. Are you telling me that you use sharkbite and then use a cactus variant and see no difference? That they are balanced? You use scientist and then use sunflower and think they impact the game equally? Engineer and Rose?!
Here's the thing. The ONLY upgrade I want for plants is for Rose to have 125HP again and the error fixed that shots hit and don't register at close range. Nothing major. When folks were clamoring for rose to be nerfed, there wasn't a huge contingency of players calling for moderation. They wanted Rose nerfed to hell and buffs for many zombies characters. I wonder why that is.
- Approved
@Unfadeable777 he hits not registering at close range on rose isn't not an errore. It wasn't display on patch note, but seems was intended to be, to take her away from the frontline...
well they did two things to keep her away from the frontline.. hp and homing nerf too.
So its' okay to give her HP back.
Zombies are not that op, more likely atm there are some plants that struggle like sunflowers, cactuses and rose, because they lack survavibility option against the common major threats in the moment.Players are encouraged to play Corn instead of others (on console) because he has enough damage to do all by himself, and has a way to survive alone with husk hop, while other immobile plants just can't.
Citron has delay on his spells and can't do all by himself, Cactus have to rely on mines, Sunflowers need someone to protect him and Rose with the HP nerf need to stay very back from every fights.
The Kernel abuse in this situation was an handicap for the plant because Scientists now can be more accessibile in this situation.
Plants meta atm is mostly handicapped by a lack of a chat text. If they want to win they need a very good team compsotion.
On PC i often win and by far the team is crearly more balanced.
Citrons and Chompers (even with their bad flaws) are still decent against some meta zombies at the moment, and whenever i play Citron my interest is always stay near a sunflower, because i know she is the most weak and vulnerable plant.
Players should be addressed to pick properly, and most important these plants should have more ways to survive alone.Rose with HP buff can activate Enigma before die to a scientists, problem is now cactus and sunflowers imho.
Maybe a fix to the time delay or increased range of potato mines activation would solve cactus problem.. for the sunflower i suggested in my thread some survivability options.
- Approved@frozenchromelta you've got the right ideas
@Unfadeable777 you've basically agreed with everything I've said except had different outcomes to your matches. Let's break down your friendly exchange then.
"I don't know if people like you actually believe what they're saying"
So this is a fact, out of 30 or so games of turf takeover I've played over the last week or two plants have won outright on offense 3 times, zombies have won outright on offense 1 time. This means pretty much nothing but since alot of people yourself included seemed to want to share your experiences of z9mbies winning 5x more I thought I would share mine.
"Or your a troll who wants to see the game fail" as stated before my family and I enjoy this game immensely and this is simply not true.
"Or your a loser..." something else about riding the op class into death of the game then switching up lol.
Wrong again as I've been pretty much strictly leveling my plants up atm because it's a more rewarding and challenging style of gameplay. I'm currently working on leveling my last rose ice rose and in the current meta she's probably the worst class. Druid and stock rose weren't so bad especially with all the imps running around lately but ice rose is just awful. But that's actually fun for me. She's bound to get fixed and I could probably wait for it but I'd rather use the rose and help my team advance by building and defending portals. Lately I am about the only person playing a rose in my games. Wonder why... - Approved
We just agree to disagree. I think zombies are op across the board and I think zombies win at 5x the ratio. I have given my info and can prove such over short or long term in any way you choose. kills, wins... whatever. I can see how pirate has ranged and close ability and mitigation to capture objectives. I can see how engineer has insane aoe, turret and stuns + mobility and ramming. I can see Sbrainz doing everything. I can watch scientist wreck 5 players in 5 seconds and do the same repeatedly with him when I use him. I can see 3 mechs totally take over the game and turn the tide of a match instantly offence or defense.
I am just glad that most agree with me and there will be some changes, tho they have taken so long that most I know uninstalled the game already.
- ApprovedAgreed to disagree. I think myself along with many others have adapted and can counter pick well enough to neutralise the threats you've outlined. This game for me is far from perfect but still more enjoyable then anything else. Seems at least from what's been said via Twitter they're going to go about correcting balance the right way in the future and setting up a system to adjust things like electro brains faster.
This is all I could hope for. Balance is going to be a constant battle for developers best taken with baby steps ideally a bit quicker though.
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