Yay opinions!! (Regarding "Balancing")

I think that the maps are completely different... and that completely changes the dynamic of the GW2 with old characters. Look, even official reviewers know about the imbalance that the new variants"forced for full pricing"  have over the old. And some of our complaints are just simple facts. The fact is that the Captains Parrot, is an actual combination of the Artichoke Drone and the a Garlic drone. 2 in one. It has the life of the artichoke, the power of the garlic drone, but also the quick drop time of the artichoke. So unfortunately the old GW1 class, the cactus has to sacrifice, while the Captain simply doesnt. The new variants for the scientist are OP. And these are just simple truths. 

I'm simply at the point can just go away, and die a quick death. If they don't to fix the game further, then so be it. And it can die. No harm to me. 

Lol I already wrote that the maps are completely different. Also not sure whom you're referring to as "official reviewers" but I know for a fact there have been quite a bit of reviews made on GW2 without them even learning the mechanics of the game it's self. Like falsely written reports...This isn't a game you can pick up in a day and get to know on a dime, it takes time to master. 

Also regarding that drone topic...I feel like you took my post personally, speaking for everyone calling everything written in the forums as "fact". Especially since I already said there's still room for improvement (only been out a month, lets remember)...I was pointing out more specific posts complaining about characters because they don't know how to fight them. You're bringing up something completely different lol

You know what the gist of your point is... That its the players fault. So I do take that personally. 

I agree with what people like IGN said about the new and old variants. The old being considerably weaker than the new. It's not like it's some subtle little thing. The differences are glaring. It's easy to spot. Like I said, they can continue to fix their game over time, like many developers do, or they can call it quits and say the game is what it is now. And it can just fade away.

LOL YES! Learning how to play against the new classes, on the new maps and with the new mechanics is totally 100% on the player. I'm not calling the game perfect, I'm pointing out something that's literally staring in front of people's faces and they're struggling to see...

And you took personally something I said that was off topic of what you wrote, you do understand that right? 

Plenty of the new classes don't have to sacrifice like the old ones did with the multiple abilities of the same type, which split up the abilities strengths. That has nothing to do with adapting, that's just giving a clear cut advantage to the new classes. I think that they will continue to tweak the game, because they see that it's not balanced and want to balance it. And I don't think they're content with that, like you seem to be. You're definitely making a point with your post that you're pretty much content, and that it's balanced enough to the point where they don't have to do anything further, and what's left is for the players to "adapt". I think you're wrong. But we'll see what they do. You're basically saying that they got it all right on the first update. No....They didn't.

Moon, you are very very right with this one, couldn't have said it better myself. :eahigh_file:

Just for all you guys complaining out there, just instead of getting annoyed, complaining and wining about everything that moves in the game- just take it as a challenge that you need to overcome! all those scientists? yeah, they might be tough, but that's the point! aren't you trying to beat them? it's a game! what's the point if it's easy? huh?! 😠

Now yes, of course there are rage moments. I know it, you know it, any gamer has gone through it at some point. but complaining won't make it any better, would it... it would just make you more annoyed, and you don't want that, do you? 🤨

In any case, I think that mine and moon's point is clear. 😎

Of course the new classes will stand out more than the old ones; they have secondary abilities within their original ones, which is something we've never seen before.  They aren't going to give the old classes secondary abilities like the new ones have, but that doesn't mean they are weaker against them. That's a very helpless way to look at things.

An example for the plants (since everyone see's them as such a weak team now)...Sunflower's beam and Peashooter's gatling destroys a Mech in seconds. Cactus's potato mines and Chomper's spike-weeds even easier to hide because of the shadows and especially the chaos and equally if not more useful. And the new upgrading slots make it a completely different ball game. 

As I stated twice in my original post, there's room for improvement on some, but it's not like the game is broken the way it is now. People are complaining like it's broken and needs a million changes made to the characters...it's never going to be perfect for everyone so we have to learn how to adjust with some of the decisions made.

Honestly I feel like you read one thing of what I wrote in my original post and left it at that. You're stating a lot of what I already wrote...next time read the whole post before commenting please...

I agree with you a lot but honestly, and I would hate to be the one to cal l someone out but the person who goes by the name of Zaheen is being a huge issue with the art of 'balancing' for this game right now. I think the game has a few tweaks that need addressed but it is still a baby so its gunna have it issues. I am afraid that most of his ideas will get noticed and help to ruin the game. 

It is also turning people away who wish to talk about balance as every time he chimes in and links his thread or talks down to people who disagree with him. His attitude is very toxic in these threads. 

@MoonLiteWolf

There are two types of players complaining about characters.

1. Players who are simply frustrated to no end about how ridiculously broken some of them are.

2. Players who are playing the broken classes and are pointing out that they are broken.

It is a bit far fetched to assume everyone complaining about something is because they can't deal with it. It's come to a point now where I'm tired of repeating myself, hearing the same complaints about the same thing, and hearing the same set of players shoot down these opinions of frustrated players who are, pretty much venting frustration and leaving the game. Yes, some people will disagree with what I say and some will agree.

Some people are experiencing the same things I am because they're playing the same classes, characters and game modes that I am etc. It is very possible for someone to not have the foggiest, because they're simply not experienced enough to know what balance is, again that is just a matter of opinion.

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I've never compared this game to any other game, but never in all my life have I ever seen this much imbalance before, where one side has multiple classes that can temporarily buff their health values to over 500, whilst the other side has less than half. The side that can have up to 500 health also has more burst and damage output. It's not a case of not being able to deal with it, I'm sure a pro player could deal with 1000 health giving favourable circumstances but the average player cannot.

It really doesn't matter what a very small group of people on the forums think of me or my opinions, the majority of players in most games don't even use the forums, and when they do it is usually to complain about something or ask a question about something else. Instead of complaining, I vented a little frustration and started making suggestions aimed towards balance, and started asking the question why people think it's fair for one side to have XYZ and not the other.

It doesn't really matter if a 125 Health Peashooter can use his rooted Pea Gatling and can take down a Mech in 3 seconds, that doesn't really justify why the Mech has 400 Health. I played GW1 enough to know that it's really difficult to root your Pea Gatling anywhere, as soon as you do a ZPG slaps you across the face. Even if nobody plays Soldier anymore, you'll get sniped, fire balls will be coming or better yet, missiles...every zombie class has range, and powerful range at that...

Again, why is one side allowed to have insta kill rockets that can kill EVERY enemy class but not the other? These abilities were designed for a completely different game, completely different set of maps and different circumstances where I will repeat myself for the millionth time, plants were always defending. It just isn't practical to root your Pea Gatling or Sunbeam when you're attacking, the abilities are pretty much useless when you're the attacking side. You need high health and high burst and you need to be able to kill every enemy and control their capture point. Plants can't do that due to major balancing issues.

Imagine if Arcane Enigma sucked zombies in and did 200 damage to them in the process, that's pretty much what Super Brainz does...sure he might not be invincible but let's assume for a moment that Engineers stun grenade is the only counter to this, would that justify everything and make it balanced?

A Mech is the equivalent of a moving Pea Gatling with 4-500 Health if you include Imps Health and the Sheild etc. Now imagine that the Mech was actually a rooted turret, and both the Pea Gatling and Sunbeam were mobile, both gave the respective classes 400 Health, and both classes had extra abilities as well. Would this be balanced by arguing that, well a rooted Imp Mech turret can take them out in 2 seconds...?

You have to completely reverse every class, and ask the same questions in regards to balance and well, everyone thinks I'm crazy and that I don't know anything about balance when in reality, all I've been doing is suggesting similar things and in doing so there has been an outrage. What does that then tell you about the players using the forums and playing?

It is late here, and I'm going to sleep.

@oceansbybays

The only one being toxic here is you. Just look at the content of my posts and look at yours.

@Zaheen1337 Woah, now that's a pretty long response lol 

Obviously everyone will have their own opinion when it comes to what they find fair, but just because people are complaining in groups doesn't necessarily mean the game is broken. As you said yourself, those satisfied with the game aren't the one's who come into the forums, it's only the pissed off players who come on here to complain or ask a question. This game has left great impressions on a lot of people too...so to be one to dismiss it so quickly as the "the most imbalanced game" honestly just sounds like you haven't figured out how it works yet...

Something I've been trying to stress is that a fair bit of the community as a whole is having trouble grasping this game as a team based game. Probably because they come from other popular shooters where 1v1ing is common, but there are a lot of moments in this game where people need to actually work together. There will be instances where you'll be able to go 1v1 or on killing sprees in this game too but it's not all about that...

The Mech is a prime example of team work that's require on the plant's team. (I'm assuming that's what you were going on about with all those ridiculous numbers regarding health) Though there are plenty of plants that can take out a Mech on their own, as soon as a Mech spawns it becomes one of those things that should become a main focus for every plant near by at that point in time. Plants can take out a Mech in 3 seconds. Not to mention there are three plants who can stun it the moment it hits the ground. Mechs are also very slow, if you hear/see one spawning just move away until the time is right to fight it. 

As for the ZPG getting a Pea in Gatling mode, this is very true and guess what that makes you want to do as a pea? You want to tuck yourself somewhere safer instead of in broad open spaces where you can get easy shots on any target. Peas in gatling can be extremely annoying out in the open and get easy kills if not taken out quickly. 

These are all things they've thought about when balancing these characters and there are a lot of factors to consider. I understand that above average players will be able to grasp this a lot quicker than blow average but that's how it would work any competitive multiplayer...this game requires very high precision and quick reflexes just like any other shooter, but honestly because of all the different classes and variants it makes it even more of a challenge...which it what I love most about it.