buff bossk
they really need to buff bossk massively in bf2 if you agree with me tell me some things you guys would like to see get improved with bossk I already know what I want him to be improved in but what d...
Forum Discussion
@RogueZeroRendarThe dmg reduction card is always a good choice, because no matter if it's HvH or large modes, people want to shoot at you while Bossk has a low rate of fire.
Also how is 20% dmg reduction a low value? Keep in mind that Bossk doesn't get health on kill so increasing his survivability in any way is good.
Rolling increases dmg resistance to 36%, just as a side fact.
Also the extra mines card is key, either it causes extra compiled damage on chokepoints to all targets or covers a broader area elsewhere, so this is a no-brainer too.
The mine fuse timer is comparably not that big of a deal imo, even in HvH I never use it at all. Bossk can dance around with rolls and high jumps quite well, so I rather want to use different cards.
Lingering dioxys is good for playing defensively and/or blocking objectives.
Dioxys HP regeneration card is only really good for me maybe on greater modes with very open maps because there is no safe redzone like in GA where you could retreat when enemies are chasing you. Nonetheless I usually don't use it either way because I found the HP regeneration to be too weak while it takes away an otherwise good gadget if you then start using it to regnerate your own HP often. I mean I prefer to rather use the grenade on enemy clusters and objectives than just standing in it myself.
@TRlALON The damage reduction is extremely weak. Compare it to any other. Rare are the useful Hero DRs that are below 40. Getting an extra 20% DR (for a total of 36%) for 1 second by rolling isn't going to help that much either. It's also only in effect while you're using Predatory Instincts, which doesn't last long, especially if you're firing with it, and the cooldown for that ability isn't a fast one. Again, as I said, that may be useful for large modes (especially because you can increase Predatory Instincts duration indefinitely by using the card that does that), but it's definitely a no go for HvV.
And from now on I'll focus in HvV. I have 2500 hours in this game, of which not even 5% I must've spent in large modes, but certainly more then 50% I've spent in HvV. So all I can say about larger modes is totally opinion based, and not based in any meaningful personal experience.
20% DR in HvV is laughable, far from useless, but laughable nonetheless. With full health it'll allow you to survive one extra saber swing (2 from non Insight Rey), and as I said you won't have it active most of the time anyway. Luke's 15% DR is even more laughable, however it can be paired with his extra Rush card (which overall increases the DR's active time), and the DR itself stays in effect for a few seconds after using the skill, which allows Luke to sustain these 15% for long, unlike Bossk, making it far more useful then Bossk's. Now compare that to any other characters that are known for taking advantage of DR: Vader, Chewie, Grievous, Ani, Obi, Finn, all of them can easily go over the 40% mark, and many have other traits or cards that enhance that effect even more. Bossk has the slowest regen rate and slowest regen delay of the hero Roster, that's really bad and almost kills his advantage of being able to regen his full health (in large modes retreating and healing is far easier then in HvV), so getting it slowed down by 20% doesn't help much (OTOH Luke has the fastest regen delay and rate, and together with his ease to sustain the 15% DR for long makes his DR card far more useful then Bossk's, even though the value is too low and is even lower then Bossk's).
About the mines, I initially thought like that, until I started facing good Bossks that prioritized the arming speed instead of more mines (some use both, which is very deadly). And now it's very clear how much more useful the arming speed is, because it means you WILL hit a chasing saber with almost certainty if he's swinging at you and you're doing that hopping Bossk technique to try to survive. If you don't use the arming speed, most sabers can see you deploying the mines, move away before any of them explode (even when it's 5 traps), and then either pull or push you out of the area where they are (and you know who's the only LS saber who can't do that? Yep, it's Rey, which adds to my list of reasons why Rey sucks). What's the use of 5 mines if your worst matchups can totally avoid them? The arming speed fixes that.
And that brings us to the Dioxis. IMO Name Your Poision for the HP regeneration is only good if you use Lingering Dioxis. It's useful without it, but as @soapy_catuses pointed out, Lingering Dioxis increases the duration by a LOT, so that enhances the regeneration effect tremendously. And as I'm focusing in HvV here, the Dioxis is much more useful when tossed at your feet there because of the chasing sabers, so why not use Name Your Poison? Unless a better card is available, but I see good Bossks using Lingering Dioxis + Dioxis Regen + Trap Arm Speed a lot, sometimes swapping Dioxis Regen for Multi Traps. I'd say both builds are very common. But no good Bossk that I've ever seen was using the Predatory Instincts DR card in HvV, it's a waste of a card there.
@RogueZeroRendar"Weak"
That one extra strike or several blaster dmg points is a literal life saver in closely matched encounters for me, the remaining HP bar doesn't lie.
What exactly do you want here, a 40 or 50% dmg reduction? For Bossk who's very far from underpowered already even without any form of dmg resistance?
Seriously, you can't just put this up against chewies max dmg resistance over time out of context, the hero abilities and possibilities of the general hero design matter too.
What's so great about Anakin's high dmg resistance moments apart from pinning yourself down at one spot to invite everyone to shoot at you? For Anakin that's essential or else it'd pretty much ruin these base abilities. Same for Obi-Wan while pushing, no one would have a good feeling about that ability if it hadn't some kind of dmg resistance.
Also you can't base this entirely around lightsaber opponents, blaster heroes exist too and won't just stand there and let themselves be killed like that and as they usually have a the advantage of the higher fire rate and often not crappy aim, some kind of defensive upgrade is never a bad thing here either.
Dioxys regen alone won't buy you enough time, you better force a fast victory over them or you might be dead before the dioxys duration card even enhances that regen effect.
Not that saber heroes are less forgiving.
Why not use dmg resistance and hp regeneration together, if you prefer to stand in your own gas?
If not, I use the duration card to throw the grenade into the battle scene as team support and to mark hidden opponents which both can in turn sometimes prevent unwanted encounters or help to predict them.
Up to preference and map/team layout, though I usually use the grenade objective oriented and therefore waive that hp regen card. Yes, even in HvH.
What's the deal about your mines? It all comes down to awareness of your environment.
Placing mines beforehand and sticking halfway with your team helps. Also moving intelligently around your team so you're not the primary target all the time.
Pulling or pushing saber users have to be countered with rolling at all ranges, no matter how fast your mines fuse somewhere if you get ragdolled around or whether Anakin decides to open the combat with magnet or use it mid-combat.
Same for fighting against Bossk, don't be so predictable with abilities.
As Rey use stealth and watch when the campy Bossk walks a bit off from his safe space and then surprise, restricted to close range but less obvious than Anakin.
Don't act like it's mission impossible man.
"But no good Bossk that I've ever seen was using the Predatory Instincts DR card in HvV."
Seems like I'm not real and from a parallel universe or something. smh
As a reminder, everything I say is about HvV, unless otherwise noted.
@TRlALON wrote:That one extra strike or several blaster dmg points is a literal life saver in closely matched encounters for me, the remaining HP bar doesn't lie.
The remaining HP Bar? What about 30 HP regen each second? It'll give you a similar result in your HP Bar. What about killing the enemy earlier with more offensive cards? That'll give you a similar result in your HP Bar as well. The only thing you're proving here is that the card isn't useless, something I already stated. But compare that to other options, it's definitely weak and I already explained why.
@TRlALON wrote:What exactly do you want here, a 40 or 50% dmg reduction? For Bossk who's very far from underpowered already even without any form of dmg resistance?
I want nothing. Why me saying 20% is weak means I want it to be changed? I don't! Especially because I see how this card can be useful in large modes not only by itself (easier time retreating to replenish full HP), but also due to the other 2 Predatory Instincts cards, one which pairs really well with the 20% DR card. This game isn't about only one mode.
@TRlALON wrote:Seriously, you can't just put this up against chewies max dmg resistance over time out of context, the hero abilities and possibilities of the general hero design matter too.
What's so great about Anakin's high dmg resistance moments apart from pinning yourself down at one spot to invite everyone to shoot at you? For Anakin that's essential or else it'd pretty much ruin these base abilities. Same for Obi-Wan while pushing, no one would have a good feeling about that ability if it hadn't some kind of dmg resistance.
I'm not putting anything out of context. I'm showing how DR is useful: it's either high, or even being low it can be sustained for long, or it can pair well with other features, or it's in sync with the character itself. Bossk's DR card fails in all of these categories: It's low, it can't be sustained for long, it doesn't pair well with anything useful (in HvV that is), and it isn't in sync with the character playstyle.
@TRlALON wrote:Also you can't base this entirely around lightsaber opponents, blaster heroes exist too and won't just stand there and let themselves be killed like that and as they usually have a the advantage of the higher fire rate and often not crappy aim, some kind of defensive upgrade is never a bad thing here either.
And why am I basing this entirely on Lightsaber heroes? Because I made a comparison against saber swings? That's an example. But even so, Lightsabers are the true threat to Bossk (in HvV), not Blasters. Bossk has a really easy time in long range combat, especially because he can wait in cover a bit and regen all his health. And he loves to bait enemies to come close. So Blasters vs Bossk are in a disadvantage. Sabers OTOH must only survive Bossk's traps and then Bossk becomes a hopping chicken (just like those in Takodana when you shoot them) trying to survive until his abilities finish their cooldowns. And in that moment he's an easy target (unless the saber doesn't know how to jump swing or how to take advantage of magnetic sabers).
@TRlALON wrote:Dioxys regen alone won't buy you enough time, you better force a fast victory over them or you might be dead before the dioxys duration card even enhances that regen effect.
Not that saber heroes are less forgiving.
Why not use dmg resistance and hp regeneration together, if you prefer to stand in your own gas?
But a 25s cooldown ability which lasts a very short time will buy you enough time? 20% of 130 (most common saber damage) is 26 damage, which is lower then the 30 given by Name Your Poison (and don't tell me about taking saber swings faster then 1 per second, because if so you may be doing something wrong and/or you'll die in no time regardless). Picture yourself with a saber chasing you at close quarters, and you as Bossk hopping around. You will use Dioxis at your feet, that's a given. So what's better, regen 30 HP each second for a long time (because of Lingering Dioxis), or have 20% damage reduction only while you have Predatory Instincts turned on? Remember that you'll have the shortest amount of time for Predatory Instincts in this situation because you'll be firing your grenades consistently at a close quarters saber.
Against blasters it's certainly more useful, but at close quarters his 126 shot from the relby is really good. And as I said, blasters are the least of Bossk's problems (in HvV), you have a lot at your disposal to deal with them, and you have an easy time avoiding them due to your high jump. If they reach close quarters with full health, then you're outnumbered or doing something wrong (or they spawned right beside you).
And you ask why not using both cards, because as I said Bossk has much better cards for HvV. I'm constantly defending Name Your Poison here (only because it's better then the 20% DR one, and only if you have Lingering Dioxis equipped as well), but the most common build I see for really good Bossks is: Multi-Trap, Trap Arming Speed, and Lingering Dioxis. They much rather kill enemies quickly then having any card that affects his toughness.
@TRlALON wrote:What's the deal about your mines? It all comes down to awareness of your environment.
Placing mines beforehand and sticking halfway with your team helps. Also moving intelligently around your team so you're not the primary target all the time.
Pulling or pushing saber users have to be countered with rolling at all ranges, no matter how fast your mines fuse somewhere if you get ragdolled around or whether Anakin decides to open the combat with magnet or use it mid-combat.
Same for fighting against Bossk, don't be so predictable with abilities.
As Rey use stealth and watch when the campy Bossk walks a bit off from his safe space and then surprise, restricted to close range but less obvious than Anakin.
Don't act like it's mission impossible man.
When you can deploy your mines and they'll damage the enemy almost no matter what he does, for a whopping 240 damage (or 400 damage with Multi-Traps), that makes Trap Arming Speed an incredible trait, especially considering the armed traps don't interfere with the ability's cooldown, so you can have mines ready to be used and mines at your feet at the same time, and you can only hit the same enemy with both groups if you have Trap Arming Speed or if he's a noob and doesn't leave when you deploy your second batch of mines. About primary target, that's not how it works in HvV. As an example, when I play palpatine, it doesn't matter how the 4 enemies are positioned, I'll always target the shooters first. Targetting an enemy in HvV due to his positioning rather then to how effective it is to target that enemy is a poor tactic.
Countering pushes and pulls with dodges is as effective for the defender as waiting for a dodge and then using a pull or a push for the attacker. It's 50/50, not a good tactic as you're suggesting.
Watch when the campy Bossk leaves his safespace? What if he doesn't do that? He doesn't need to do that in HvV. That's the most common thing I see. Also, whenever bossk has all abilities out of cooldown he can leave the safespace and create another instantly. Bossk is one of the worst matchups against Rey exactly because if he knows what he's doing, Rey can only do anything if she got support, or if the Bossk player isn't that good with Bossk. Also what's Stealth in HvV? You already mentioned this when we were talking about Rey. There's no Stealth in HvV. Even if someone manages to get close without me knowing where he/she is, suddenly I hear the character and I know exactly where it is.
@TRlALON wrote:"But no good Bossk that I've ever seen was using the Predatory Instincts DR card in HvV."
Seems like I'm not real and from a parallel universe or something. smh
Good is subjective. My team competed with the best of the best in the PC community back in 2018, but since then I got too rusty and without a good full team to play oftenly to keep at that level. So I do have an eye for the top tiers of HvV players. I also watched great players playing both on PC and other platforms throughout these years, and exchanged discussions about the heroes a lot. So in my experience, the best Bossks I've seen never use that card. I've never played with or against you, nor have I seen any of your gameplay footage, so I have no idea what level of 'good' you are.
If you're indeed that good, you should change that card to become even better because that card sucks in HvV. Or you're that good that even with a weak card you still rock in HvV. I'll only know when I see you playing.
1) How is the dmg reduction not suitable for being offensive?
2) Excuse me, but you just named other heroes with dmg resistance like Anakin and Obi-Wan. They need these for their base abilities to not backfire that much which really isn't the same as a boost card you can use to upgrade things.
I still don't see how the card isn't able to pair well with Bossk even in HvH. His grenade launcher restricts to a close distance and unless you can just conveniently shoot them around the corner, opponents will be close with sight contact and have in turn an easier time attacking you. Both sabers and blasters.
When sabers want to attack, the eventually get close and that's were one usually uses the grenade launcher as counter if available. Apart from rolling and jumping, Bossk might still get hit in that situation so a dmg reduction comes in handy anyways.
3) You were talking about lightsabers only, how am I supposed to know what your exact motivation to exclude blasters beforehand was?
Man, are you really serious about blasters not being a real threat to Bossk? Good blaster players know what it means to oppose Bossk and that as soon as the grenade launcher is unavailable or they can shoot at some distance, it's them who are usually at advantage. Then they also play more aggro and chase Bossk to make sure that he exactly can't just regenerate health somewhere off the fight scene and recharge his abilities.
Bossk without ability support is vulnerable to both lightsabers and blasters, just that the blasters generally have more tactical possibilities to fight against Bossk instead of the dull magnet + rushing close approach.
How exactly do you fare better against Leia or Han with their guns when your grenade launcher is spent and they prefer not to come too close at first? Also if they really have a good aim and move themselves clever too, rolls and jumps won't help you much.
4) Predatory instincts duration itself might be short if you spam the grenades out right away, but in named 1 v 1 situation it can make up a great amount of the total time of the fight. If you succeeded to bait the lightsaber go into the mines, that time can be enough to kill him, same for blasters.
If you use dioxys regeneration, you're restrained to one area and if someone manages to pull/push you out there, well bad luck.
Some prefer the trap arming speed, while I feel I just don't need it.
Both cards, are bound to their situation and up to preference.
As I explained before about the dioxys nade, I prefer using it objective oriented, in HvH means as team support instead on myself, so I just go with that supplement that doesn't restrict me to stay at some certain spot.
5) Positioning matters, of course? Team mates often know that it's clever to stay near Bossk, in return I tend to follow them and not isolate myself very much anywhere. Lightsabers can't aggro me just like that if they need to get around others first to reach me, no matter if they know that I'm the best player of my current team. So either they fight my team mate first or get somehow past because superior in numbers or that guy just isn't able to help me for reasons or leaves me down.
You bring up Palpatine, of course that restriction doesn't apply so to blasters, which just confirms what I said about blasters. That Solo pro knows about his versatility and even if he just forces Bossk into cover that's a potential advantage.
Anyways, for sabers it's way more difficult when a team has a somewhat clever formation, you can't deny that. It's not so much a matter of choice then when that Vader near Bossk or Phasma just won't ignore you and maybe your other saber friend. So, relying on Anakin as last resort or maybe consider using a blaster hero instead?
6) What else apart from gadgets do you want to do except rolling and jumping to avoid damage when the saber is aggroing you up close? It's not like there's a different choice, so I don't get your point about it "not being a good tactic".
So if that lone campy Bossk/Phasma doesn't leave his safespace and you're not Han or Anakin, who forces you to fight against Bossk?
Just let him camp his dead weight there and support your team else, better for tickets.
If the team sticks to Bossk, he uses his gadgets and perhaps doesn't pay enough attention at some point.
It's like when I play starfighter assault/showdown, if I don't have the tanky type, I let my team go first to do the attrition work while I fall behind or flank to attack the more isolated targets or weak spots.
Provided that it doesn't make more sense to attack a different opponent in a Rey vs Bossk team situation, really depends from the exact situation.
Stealth. You know I was talking about the minimap tracers and maybe you should finally consider that not everyone who plays as Rey starts the dash from 15m away so the target has enough time to hear or even starts the attack with the dash at all. Even footsteps, there is no one in BF II who can supress this, so what's your point here? You're bringing up a definition of stealth here that nothing is able to pass in the whole game.
Even the specialist has footstep noises and announces the start of his ability usage for everyone to hear.
Fact is it allows to get close unnoticed by the minimap regardless, which is an advantage either way.
What's better, the blaster knows where you are and has time to shoot, maneuver and think first or is forced to react?
Sure, you might hear that and react earlier than most players that play this game, but still, Rey is close already and the blaster user didn't get the advantage to shoot from distance, use gadgets, camp the corner, retreat to the team etc. beforehand.
Same for target's team mates who don't notice the presence and walk off rather than preparing for an enemy of that direction.
Which is exactly what Bossks don't like because they can't use any stun, either their abilities are ready or they're dead before they're able to retreat to their team or mine spot if they moved away from it before.
7) Pretty sure you know that not every good player brags about it on twitch or YT and I don't feel the need to discuss or proof anything about my skill.
As you seem to be an american player and I'm mainly playing in noon of european timezone we'll most likely never encounter each other but that's not of importance here anyways.
and also thats why im saying bossk needs a buff mostly on his relay v10 bc of its slow rate of fire bc when a lightsaber hero is running at you or in your face and you dont have your abilities ready you need something that can help you in the meantime until your abilities are ready and thats why im saying a faster rate of fire for his relay would be good so if someone is coming towards him he can start shooting the hero taking more damage and get them low so they run then when your abilities are ready then your set bc if a lightsaber hero comes at you and you have literally a sniper rifle that takes low damage when not charged and slow fire rate your done it takes like 50 hp and slow rate of fire like cmon thats nothing so a higher rate of fire for the relby like it was back in Battlefront 2015 would be good so bossk wont be so defenseless without his abilities
also if a lightsaber hero was coming at you would you rather have a sniper or a rifle(assault class weapon) bc bossk has a sniper good for long range not close but a higher rate of fire would then make him actually stand a chance against lightsaber heroes without his abilities.
