Forum Discussion

chinnyreckon's avatar
chinnyreckon
8 years ago

Re: For those who cry pay to win

As regards gamling that is a complegtely different issue. I would be ok with it even in games like this if it were regulated. There is a reason gamling is regulated by governments and that is so that players can not be tricked and take advantage of. Regulation ensures players choices are well informed. Regulation mean that:

A. Every one knows the odds. In this case we would all knows the odds of each item turning up in a loot box and hence know on average the true value of a loot box. It basically means that casinos can not use weighted dice.

B. Every players gets the same odds. At present the company can give different odds to different players for example ...depending on their level of progression. This mean cards that a certain person needs can be made harder to get JUST for that person in order that they pay more money. The company can theredore manipulate every one on an individual level to extract more money from them.

C. The odds can not be changed without the players knowing. I am sure no one would like it is they bet on a horse at 10 to 1 paying 1 dollar and expexting 10 dollar to win if then during the race the company changed your odds So that when you go collect your winnings they said the odd are now 2 to 1 and your winnings are 2 dollars.

These are jusy a few examples. As it stands all gamling in computer game with stuff like loot boxes is unregulated. So they can do really underhanded things to rip you if they like. Hence i want gamling removed although I would be more than happy to keep it if it were regulated. But that would also mean that kids who are not psychologically and emotionally mature enough to handle a mechanic that can be addictive could not play.

I understand that some people like gambling in games and find in fun. I would like you to have it and have your fun. What I and others dont want is for the companies running it to be able to use these things to manipilate you, lie to you and trick into giving them your money. At the moment thay can if they like and you would be unaware that they are doing that. I really dont understand why you want them to do that to you?

3 Replies

  • chinnyreckon's avatar
    chinnyreckon
    8 years ago


    You may ask if companies would really use underhanded tricks with gamling and loot boxes like those mentioned above.

    Activision/Blizzard are under a lot of suspicion. By law in China they had to declare the odd and mechanics of how item in loot boxes were given. They were so against doing this they spent a fortune reworking the game JUST for China so they would not have to disclose this information. They made loot boxes come as a side effect for paying for other stuff so that players did not directly pay for the loot boxes and hence they were not considered gamling (although paying and recieving random goods funtioned for all practical purposes).

    You have to ask why they so badly did not want to disclose what the loot box odds mechanics were. What are they trying to hide?

  • chinnyreckon's avatar
    chinnyreckon
    8 years ago

    Regarding grinding less. If EA provided a system in which you would see the price for a particular item you needed (e.g. in order to grind less) and could buy that item for the advertised price up front (basically a store) then you would also be able to grind less in exctly the same way. However, there would be no randon gambling invlolved. I would like them to do this. Basically replace the casino with a store.

    However I think that a lot of other people have an objection regarding the amount of grinding coercing players into paying in order not to grind and believe that to be unbalanced. But I will leave them to answer that issue

  • chinnyreckon's avatar
    chinnyreckon
    8 years ago

    I have come to the realisation that along with @kaspen2012 many others do not fully understand why Battlefront 2, which they find fun, has caused such an uproar with gamers beyond what any game with microtransactions has done to date. Hence they find this whole debate seems unfounded and annoying. Given @kaspen2012 has started this thread in order to have such issues explained to them I thought id give a brief explanation. I hope as a result we can keep the discussion here and off of every other thread which it seem to infect.

    A. Micro transactions have been in games for many years. Yes but these have until recent years only been free to buy games that made their money though in game purchases. Battlefront 2 and some other games charge you to buy the game and also in game. Some feel they are paying for the game twice. This is not in principle an issue as games companies have ongoing costs beyond the initial purchase such as DLC development and keeping servers up and running and they need to raise money for this some how. Hence this has not until now not caused a stink.

    B. Micro transaction are used in a 'Pay to Win' mechanic. Yes this has happenend before and gamers have been complaining about it for a long time. It creates an unbalanced and therefore unfair playing field between players and the game is no longer based purly on practice and skill. This can be mitigated if the games company balance the system so that the advantages are not too extreme and some but not all players are content with this. However this issue has recently gained more momentum due to the problems below. Most would like microtrasaction not involve any pay to win but just be cosmetic. To be fair to EA,  LucasFilm keep control of any visual content and this severly limits thier ability to provide cosmetics, and as a result make enough money purly from cosmetic microtransaction in the way games like overwatch do.

    C. The level of grind in the initial configuration of the game coerced players into using the 'Play to Win' mechanic. BF2 more than any game before initially had such an extreme level of grind that players felt that although they were not explicitly being told to pay money that they were being given no real option by EA other than to pay up cash to get out of it. This is when it all blew up on reddit. People didnt like effectivly feeling forced to pay in order to enjoy the game.

    D. The 'pay' mechanim involves unregulated gambling. Feeling they are now being coerced into paying money to escape grind and also win, player also found that the method of paying is via unregulated gambling in which the company either could, does or may in the future manupulate them in a dishonst way in order to unfairly extract more money from them.

    As you can see, microtransaction ( A )  can be ok if delt with correctly. Pay to Win ( B )  is a very tenuous subject. However by using coersion into paying ( C)  and having the unchecked ability to unfairly/dishonestly extract money from players ( D - unregulated gambling ), BF2 is the game that went way way too far. Hence the game has been viewed by many as using preditory tactics in order to extract more money from customers.

    I hope that makes matter clearer for everyone. Even I would like to stop talking about this stuff now and instead concerntrate on how we can encourage EA to improve the game and help each other.

Featured Places

Recent Discussions