So chaze is just going to be ignored?

Oh just you wait, they both still have two level 7 unique abilities that could each get a zeta level 8 ability

You mention boba and Vader zeta...don't you see the problem with doing that though? Vader requires a zeta and boba had to be reworked over the past month to be a counter to them. You shouldn't need zetas or toons to be reworked to counter 4-5* toons that are only omega'd. Isn't that a sign that they're imbalanced?

How is bringing old characters up-to-date to be competitive a bad thing? They weren't created just to counter the Chaze combo, that's silly. Zeta was introduced similar to how Omega's were introduced at level 80. Granted they are difficult to get, they introduce an interesting dynamic to the game.

It's funny that people are upset about Chirrut's secondary, Baze's 2 specials but those really aren't what make them that powerful; don't get me wrong, those abilities are good. Chirrut's counter-attack is perhaps the biggest part of his survivability. You can get hit him down to 50% but he comes back at you and heals to full, and if he was at 100% Baze will taunt. I'm not saying their OP because this is controllable but it's probably the strongest part of Chirrut.

Super Speed Boba and a B2 = lunch. This is like complaint when Wiggs first came out. Leave em be I say.

lol.... so much lol

come on fellas. Yes they're OP, but they can be beat.

Feel like you should be able to beat them right away without having spent like them? Get outta here!

Maybe you're facing OP mods as well...

Anyhoo...

Farm the counter, and then sadistically laugh in your corner while you beat them.


SIDE NOTE:
Is Maul zeta lead, boba, vader, ep +1 a viable counter? I heard it was a while back so I'm 3 zetas away from finding out

"BrianBuchanans;836001" wrote:

"Tuftedpaper85;835982" wrote:

"BrianBuchanans;835794" wrote:

"Tuftedpaper85;835761" wrote:
People defending chaze are missing the point. I struggled mightily against them but since I've discovered strategies to beat them; however, that doesn't mean that they're balanced or okay. I strongly believe that Baze is useful even without the massive health pool and auto taunt thanks to his dispelling kit. Most dispellers have one move to dispel; Baze has two including an aoe dispel, and plus he benefits from turn meter gains when other toons gain buffs. If you take away his dispelling kit, Baze is still useful thanks to his auto taunt and synergy with Chirrut. Combined, they make him op because no other toons do that.

Chirrut is useful simply for his ability to equalize heal and cleanse/provide tenacity up in the same move. Even without that move, he'd still be useful thanks to his speed and damage and his ability to stack heal over times on allies. Combine them all together and he becomes op. That's the point

Baze is very, very well-rounded; I agree with you there. But the thing about these toons is that they've got glaring weaknesses, many of which have already been mentioned. Another I'd like to mention is the ability to abuse Baze's retribution to feed your team turn meter with STHan; ability block him for two turns with Boba and you'll get a solid five turns before the playing ground levels out.

A note about Chirrut—he can either equalize health and give tenacity up OR equalize health and change debuffs to HoT, not both at the same time. This make him INCREDIBLY prone to Boba's Execute under Vader Zeta; when he cleanses, the number of status effects is doubled, essentially inviting immediate death for the toon of your choice. You can bet the AI will make that mistake.

Even with all of the power considered, we have plenty of ways to take these dudes out. The acceptable power level has certainly increased, but the ways to meet that power level have widened greatly from the days of Ben-Rey-QGJ-GS-RG.

You mention boba and Vader zeta...don't you see the problem with doing that though? Vader requires a zeta and boba had to be reworked over the past month to be a counter to them. You shouldn't need zetas or toons to be reworked to counter 4-5* toons that are only omega'd. Isn't that a sign that they're imbalanced?

I'm well aware that these toons have weaknesses and are beatable but that's not the point. My issue is that they put an entire arena team's worth of skills into two toons. What kind of ridiculous skills will their next toon release have to balance out chaze? This kind of power creep is a huge turn off to the average player, who takes a month to two months to farm up and max out a new toon.

It's almost like you need certain toons to do their functions well in order to beat other teams...

Boba wasn't reworked because of Chaze. His rework happens to absolutely wreck the duo. But even if that weren't the case, the point is that if there's going to be a powerful combination like Chaze (or Wiggs) there will be an equally effective response like Boba (or Shoretrooper).

As to the breadth of Chaze's skill set, a few things:

First, remember when EP came out and he was a step ahead of every team out there and everyone freaked out?

Well, EP isn't very scary to me anymore. We figured out how to beat him and his team stuns and his new debuff and his self-healing and his offense up. Just like people will learn how to beat Chaze and their dispelling and health equalizing and cleansing and tenacity. If anything, the biggest jump with these toons is Baze's multiple dispels, but he's like a halfway point between B2 and Sun Fac if anything.

Y'all also have to realize that when a toon has such a wide range of abilities, some of those abilities become limited. For example, since Chirrut has cleanse OR tenacity, he functions significantly worse than Rex at keeping your team safe from debuff teams. Since Baze has two dispels, he has no dedicated taunt ability, forcing you to find alternate ways to make him eat damage. Since Chirrut essentially needs to equalize before using his offensive special, you can't open with heavy burst damage. There are tradeoffs to the Chaze game even if we won't acknowledge them on paper.

About EP... you are wrong. We had yoda and fast wiggs teams to counter him right away and he was never a problem. With chaze in the game you are forced to have the same maxed out zeta characters + boba ofc to defeat them.

It would be fine for them to have an advantage, like wiggs had, but they are waaay too OP for a ftp player in a GW node 12.

Before this the only problem was speed. Now its two characters. Thats lame in my opinion no matter what you have to say.

"Tuftedpaper85;835982" wrote:

"BrianBuchanans;835794" wrote:

"Tuftedpaper85;835761" wrote:
People defending chaze are missing the point. I struggled mightily against them but since I've discovered strategies to beat them; however, that doesn't mean that they're balanced or okay. I strongly believe that Baze is useful even without the massive health pool and auto taunt thanks to his dispelling kit. Most dispellers have one move to dispel; Baze has two including an aoe dispel, and plus he benefits from turn meter gains when other toons gain buffs. If you take away his dispelling kit, Baze is still useful thanks to his auto taunt and synergy with Chirrut. Combined, they make him op because no other toons do that.

Chirrut is useful simply for his ability to equalize heal and cleanse/provide tenacity up in the same move. Even without that move, he'd still be useful thanks to his speed and damage and his ability to stack heal over times on allies. Combine them all together and he becomes op. That's the point

Baze is very, very well-rounded; I agree with you there. But the thing about these toons is that they've got glaring weaknesses, many of which have already been mentioned. Another I'd like to mention is the ability to abuse Baze's retribution to feed your team turn meter with STHan; ability block him for two turns with Boba and you'll get a solid five turns before the playing ground levels out.

A note about Chirrut—he can either equalize health and give tenacity up OR equalize health and change debuffs to HoT, not both at the same time. This make him INCREDIBLY prone to Boba's Execute under Vader Zeta; when he cleanses, the number of status effects is doubled, essentially inviting immediate death for the toon of your choice. You can bet the AI will make that mistake.

Even with all of the power considered, we have plenty of ways to take these dudes out. The acceptable power level has certainly increased, but the ways to meet that power level have widened greatly from the days of Ben-Rey-QGJ-GS-RG.

You mention boba and Vader zeta...don't you see the problem with doing that though? Vader requires a zeta and boba had to be reworked over the past month to be a counter to them. You shouldn't need zetas or toons to be reworked to counter 4-5* toons that are only omega'd. Isn't that a sign that they're imbalanced?

I'm well aware that these toons have weaknesses and are beatable but that's not the point. My issue is that they put an entire arena team's worth of skills into two toons. What kind of ridiculous skills will their next toon release have to balance out chaze? This kind of power creep is a huge turn off to the average player, who takes a month to two months to farm up and max out a new toon.

I don't think this needs to be said but I guess so. Why wouldn't you need a top toon to deal with a top toon.

The post you are referring to doesn't say to deal with them at any lvl, that post is referring to a maxed set of toons being balanced against a single toon with a maxed ability or a toon that was reworked and brought into balance with the way things are.... that's right a set (2) having a single (1) toon being the answer...

The synergy trend being launched outrages so many but no one outraged acknowledges that to get said power you have to lvl gear and star 2 toons. That's 2 spots on you team. Yes there is more power there then one toon and the synergy makes them stronger together, but it takes double the work upfront to get there.

"ObviouslyNot;836049" wrote:
All I'm saying is it's pointless to argue that they are balanced. Because that is just not true.

Insane synergy is the wave of the future. Both pairs, and factions. Many, myself included, have wanted to see full factions be stronger than groups of random individual toons who are the only ones any good at what they do. (Like picking Dooku or Phasma for lead, and GS or Rey for DPS back in the day)

Baze/Chirrut are a bit ahead of the curve on that. They absolutely do more than any other pair of toons. I agree. But they don't need to be beaten down. They are a foregleam of things to come. More synergies and leader abilities will be added giving more options of powerhouse teams. Plenty already exist. There are already F2P options that can not just beat, but decimate Chaze so spectacularly that it's laughable.

So am I arguing that they're perfectly balanced? No. This game has NEVER been balanced. But new toons and abilities will continue to be added to mix things up, and in the mean time there are multiple free options to beat them easily now, and there is more diversity in arena than I've ever seen. (Jedi, Empire, Etc)

If someone is saying Chaze is in perfect balance, or that the game is in perfect balance I'd disagree. But the point of this thread isn't to point out that they're just a bit above average. It's to complain that they need to be nerfed, and the devs are ignoring them. So I haven't read everything here, but I haven't seen anyone saying that Chaze is perfect, just that NOTHING needs to be done about them. They are a tad stronger than average, and can be owned with free toons. The meta will roll past them like all the others. In the mean time I'll keep owning them with Boba who has been out for a year, and we were given free shards for last month.

"RiseOfBoxandthefuzz;835702" wrote:

"NicolasRage;835684" wrote:

"RiseOfBoxandthefuzz;835670" wrote:

"NicolasRage;86020" wrote:
The Chaze combo is entirely too OP. Since when was using 4* g9 characters supposed to be the total win condition? There's no real counter to them and they make every team unstoppable even at low star and gear. Do we just go in arena and hope that we don't run into Chaze? I'm sitting at #10 in arena right now and really wanna break into single digits but each team has Chaze and they just simply destroy me before I can even hurt them. I have never made a "nerf (insert character)" thread, because honestly, every character so far that everyone has thought was OP or under balanced, really hasn't been. However, Chaze needs to be looked at.

No counter?
https://youtu.be/IQ1tL6qoCvU
https://youtu.be/Q-jOxwA_KzU
https://youtu.be/mCJb07ACFgw

Chaze is fine, albeit annoying. The meta has changed. Cleary your team has not. Adapt.

Oh yeah, let me just unlock GK real quick and zeta my Barriss so that I can counter a 4* character. Get real.

1. Barris isn't on my squad. The opponent had a zetaed Barris.
2. If you aren't on your way to unlocking Kenobi yet and aren't in a competitive guild or haven't got zetas yet, how on earth to expect to crack top ten and be competitive?

Stop being entitled.

The very simple answer to #2 is: without having Kenobi or zetas you should not expect to crack top 10 on a competitive shard (where everyone else has Kenobi and zetas).
Ironically you seem to feel entitled to "compete" without being "competitive" yourself.

"JacenRoe;836109" wrote:

"ObviouslyNot;836049" wrote:
All I'm saying is it's pointless to argue that they are balanced. Because that is just not true.

Insane synergy is the wave of the future. Both pairs, and factions. Many, myself included, have wanted to see full factions be stronger than groups of random individual toons who are the only ones any good at what they do. (Like picking Dooku or Phasma for lead, and GS or Rey for DPS back in the day)

Baze/Chirrut are a bit ahead of the curve on that. They absolutely do more than any other pair of toons. I agree. But they don't need to be beaten down. They are a foregleam of things to come. More synergies and leader abilities will be added giving more options of powerhouse teams. Plenty already exist. There are already F2P options that can not just beat, but decimate Chaze so spectacularly that it's laughable.

So am I arguing that they're perfectly balanced? No. This game has NEVER been balanced. But new toons and abilities will continue to be added to mix things up, and in the mean time there are multiple free options to beat them easily now, and there is more diversity in arena than I've ever seen. (Jedi, Empire, Etc)

If someone is saying Chaze is in perfect balance, or that the game is in perfect balance I'd disagree. But the point of this thread isn't to point out that they're just a bit above average. It's to complain that they need to be nerfed, and the devs are ignoring them. So I haven't read everything here, but I haven't seen anyone saying that Chaze is perfect, just that NOTHING needs to be done about them. They are a tad stronger than average, and can be owned with free toons. The meta will roll past them like all the others. In the mean time I'll keep owning them with Boba who has been out for a year, and we were given free shards for last month.

I agree with you that factions teams are better than random character teams. Its awesome Baze and chirrut are great together, I just think they are unnecessary to be soo over the top. It should have been wiggs and EP level OP.

All nerf threads should be closed and deleted.

I have the meta in arena with max gear and a barriss zeta and I get bumped down every day.

Learn to play or learn to pay, but stop whining.