Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

@SimmerGeorge  I'm so sorry, I thought I'd replied to you a while ago.  But maybe I closed the window before clicking Send.  (It's been one of those weeks.  Or one and a half, really.)

The link you posted is private—it's asking me to sign into Google Drive, meaning I can't see the upload.

@puzzlezaddict What about this one?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KKZAnA9o2_hyu1bodZD1og8UnCTgNW7n/view?usp=sharing

Alternatively I also made this: http://www.mediafire.com/file/8b0vc6dcs5trdvc/Logging_SimmerGeorge.CSV/file

@SimmerGeorge  I can see the first one, thanks.  I'll get to it in a few hours, when I'm in front of Windows again.  (My log reader doesn't deign to work in macOS.)

@SimmerGeorge  I took a look, and so did someone else who's better at this than I am.  The issue is that your hardware, particularly your graphics card, is barely being utilized, certainly not anywhere near the level it could run if required.  So the question is why.

Please run another dxdiag and attach it to a post.  I want to see if there are any useful driver updates since the last dxdiag from a few months ago.  Please also see whehter you can set the Windows energy plan to "AMD Ryzen Balanced" in Power Options (Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Power Options).  If you can't, you may need a chipset driver update, which should also be clear from the dxdiag.

@puzzlezaddict I just attached the DxDiag to my post.

As far as chipset driver updates go I installed one when I bought this PC 1 year ago. I found it on Reddit so I don't know if it was a good choice to install it. 

My power settings were on Windows Balanced so I changed them to AMD Balanced, not sure if this will cause problems because I had this power plan before and I think it raised my CPU's EDC to 97-99 all the time which made me worry. Maybe this problem has been solved somehow, I will check.

I don't really have any problems with other games (or I just didn't notice). The only thing is my other games are all installed in my D drive while the Sims 4 is installed in my C Drive which is an SSD. Could an SSD cause hardware to not being utilized or is that not relevant? 

Could my power supply or my RAM play a role in this? 

@SimmerGeorge  Having a game on an SSD isn't going to make the other components run slower, for sure.  And there's no evidence of any problems with your hard drives, your RAM, or your PSU.

I think the steps that are more likely to help are updating your BIOS and your chipset drivers.  I believe that this is your motherboard:

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450M-PRO-M2

But it's always best to double-check the manual.  For this board though, MSI offers a much newer BIOS and newer chipset drivers.  Install the BIOS update first, and after your computer reboots, install the chipset drivers and restart again.  Then test the game.

Please run hwinfo again, this time with power settings set to AMD Ryzen Balanced, and I'll take another look.  (By the way, your CPU was running at the EDC limit in your previous hwinfo log, so using the Windows Balanced plan didn't help with that.)  Even if you need to adjust the settings later, I'd rather see how the system performs with the Ryzen Balanced setting, and after both BIOS and chipset drivers have been updated.

@puzzlezaddict I have a different board and found the BIOS update for it online but I haven;t installed it yet cause I am contemplating whether or not I will ruin my PC :P

Could you help me find an update for my Chipset Drivers? I don't know how to find this.  

@SimmerGeorge  Please list the motherboard you have, as in, what you see in the board's manual, and link the download page if you've found it.  Don't download the BIOS from a third-party site though.  You should always get it straight from the manufacturer of your board.

Updating BIOS isn't zero-risk, but it is very-low-risk if you follow instructions.  I've seen other people with AMD CPUs that needed a BIOS update to get ideal performance in Sims 4, although I don't remember another player having as dramatic a gap between expected and actual performance as you do.

@puzzlezaddict So my motherboard is the MSI A320M PRO-M2 V2 (MS-7B84) as it is listed in my PC's System Information I found through Run->msconfig. As my PC is Pre-built I do not own the manual. I got all my Warranties they gave me in a box but they send me no manual so I cannot identify the motherboard any other way. 

The BIOS I want to install is from this link:  https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/A320M-PRO-M2-V2

I thought I'd download the latest one from 07/09/2020

I just watched the tutorial on YouTube and it seems rather simple. I am confident in my skills to pull it off I had just never thought it might affect my performance so much really this is why I was doubting it. 

I know this is taking a really long time but please stick with me and hopefully it will work. Also let me know, if possible where to get the right Chipset Drivers for after updating my BIOS. 

I really hope this improves things because honestly I cannot think of why my system would be underperforming. 

@SimmerGeorge  It's strange that MSI would have two different motherboards with the same ID, but it looks like that's the case—the one I linked is also listed as 7B84.  But that's why you always check first.

Anyway, the chipset drivers are listed under the Driver tab on the same site you linked.  There's only one option under System & Chipset Drivers, and that's the one you want.  And yes, download the newest BIOS.

I'm not going anywhere, don't worry.  If I get stuck, I'll call for backup.

@puzzlezaddict Yes it is strange indeed so I looked in my case just to triple-check. It does say A320M PRO-M2 V2 on the motherboard and strangely enough I cannot find it marked as 7B84 anywhere eventhough it says so in my msconfig. 

Anyway I will do the BIOS update now and then the Chipset update and since it's pretty late here I will probably play-test tomorrow and let you know.  

@puzzlezaddict So ehmm weird thing. I put the files from the latest update on my flash drive. Booted the BIOS menu, inserted the USB flash drive and clicked on M-Flash. 

By that time the menu was already very laggy. I clicked on the update file and it took 2 minutes to respond, then I clicked yes I want to install and at first it didn't respond at all for 3 minutes and then the PC turned itself off and botted back to the BIOS menu. 

Update was not completed, the BIOS date is still 01/30/2019. Seems like something went wrong? Maybe wrong file type? I downloaded from the link I showed you

Oh man this is so complicated 😭🤣

@SimmerGeorge  The 7B84 designation is also in your dxdiag, and that's what I used to search for your motherboard, which led me to the B450 version of the board.

Let me get back to you on this.  Or rather, let me find someone who knows better than I do, and either he'll get back to you or I will.

@SimmerGeorge  Okay, one consult later, it's better to skip the BIOS update for now, given how the process went.  Go ahead and install the chipset drivers, restart the computer, and get another hwinfo log.

Out of curiosity, what format does the USB stick you used have, and which port did you use?  Is your computer still under warranty?  I'm not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with it, just asking what the status is.

@puzzlezaddict Okay I installed the Chipset Drivers and did a new hwinfo log. Here's the link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19wQYwAlyhpGhasb7A_miaxPbPtNOKjxz/view?usp=sharing

As far as the confusion with the motherboard goes I can actually see through the transparent case that it's a a320m pro-m2 v2. At least that's what it says on it. Yet like I mentioned in msconfig it is listed as a a320m pro-m2 v2 (MS-7B84). Not sure if there's a difference there. 

My USB format is FAT32 and I used a USB 3.0 port that came with my PC. I'm not sure about when my warranty expires from the place I got it Pre-built from. I would have to look around to find out but I bought the PC in Oktober 2019 so I'm guessing it must still be under warranty if I'm lucky. 

Also the hardware has its own warranty that you get from the companies that make it like ZOTEC, MSI etc. which is handy in case something is wrong afterall. I really hope my PC is fine though. I saved up so long to get it and it's such a shame I'm having issues. 

I also thought that maybe I should try doing a hwinfo log with another, more demanding game, just to see if there will be any difference? What do you think of that?

@puzzlezaddict Okay so I guess my most recent reply got deleted so I'll post it again. 

Here's the link from the gameplay after the Chipset Driver update: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19wQYwAlyhpGhasb7A_miaxPbPtNOKjxz/view?usp=sharing

The USB I used was in FAT32 Format and I connected it with a USB 3.0 Port that came with my PC. 

I'm not entirely sure if my PC is still under warranty. I bought it in October of 2019 so if it has a 2-year warranty I guess it still is under it. However I also have the seperate warranties that came with my hardware and I think they are still active. I am not sure how it works with hardware warranties from the manufacturers like ZOTAC, MSI on a Pre-bult PC. 

I also thought that maybe I should do a hwinfo log playing another game? Maybe there's a different when I play other games and the problem is just the SIms 4? What do you think of that?

@SimmerGeorge  Feel free to upload a log from another game.  It would be interesting to compare the two side by side.  I'll take a look at both later today.

@puzzlezaddict So I chose Final Fantasy XV as the different game because I figured it's more graphically demanding than the Sims 4. I never really noticed any issues with it, except for like a crash once or twice which is allegedly a normal thing with a certain area in this game. 

Here's the link to that: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P4ZNHFuUGk6_nArGfIrH4-bIUgnKqcxb/view?usp=sharing

Also I start playing around the 7-9 minute mark with this one. 

@SimmerGeorge  Your hardware is certainly performing as expected, or close enough, in the other game.  So the question is why it doesn't work harder in Sims 4 specifically.  I know you've tried uninstalling the game, using a clean folder, clearing Origin's cache, etc., but I (and more importantly, the much wiser second opinion) think it's time to do everything together.

Start by uninstalling Sims 4:

• Put aside your Sims 4 folder in Documents\Electronic Arts and rename it to something that doesn't include the words "Sims 4."
• Download Revo Uninstaller (the free version is fine) from here.
• Launch Revo, select Sims 4 from the list, and click Uninstall.
• Once the game is uninstalled, select "Moderate" under "scanning modes," and click Scan.
• Review the list, in case there's something you want to save; otherwise, click Select All, and then Delete.
• Close Revo, and restart your computer.

Next, uninstall Origin:

• First, clear Origin's cache.
• Quit Origin, then right-click on the Task Bar and open the Task Manager.  Scroll through looking for Origin entries.  If you find any, click on them and End Task.
• Launch Revo again and uninstall Origin, and when it's uninstalled, select "Moderate" again and Scan.
• If Revo finds any remaining registry entries, select all, delete, and click Next.
• Revo will display "Remaining Data and Folders.  Select all of them except for the "Origin Games" folder, if it appears.  (This is where other Origin games are installed by default.)  Delete the rest.
• Close Revo, and restart your computer.

Next, download and install Origin—the regular version, not the beta.  Here's the direct download link:

http://download.dm.origin.com/origin/live/OriginSetup.exe

Be sure to run both the installer and Origin itself as an admin: right-click on each and select "Run as Administrator."  When it's reinstalled, download Sims 4; you can just download the base game, to save time, if you want.

Restart after installing and before playing, and allow the game to create a(nother) new user folder rather than reusing your existing one.

@puzzlezaddict Okay so I don't want to dissapoint you but I don't know I think it didn't work. I did everything you listed today, took me almost 2 hours to complete, deleted the cache, removed the folder an renamed it,  unistalled the whole thing with Revo, both the game and then Origin, did the scan, deleted the leftovers. I did everything together and it still didn't work. I just tried to ultimate test, I put a Spa in San Myshuno and visited it with a sim and I got max 50 fps when zoomed in and staying completely still with the camera, and when I tried to rotate around the building (like in normal gameplay, not too zoomed out) I got fps in the 20s, for a second I hit 19 fps haha. 

I tried playing with vsync off right after reinstalling but the screen tearing is so bad, even though the fps isn't very high. But I have to say I had 120 fps in my isolated residential home lot and a second later 40 fps in a community lot. One would think this is definitely a hardware issue but I really almost never had problems with other games. I play Smite, FFXV with no problems but since I don't play a lot of games I couldn't tell you. It could very well be a hardware issue but Smite and FFXV just work for some reason?

Maybe this is just how it is, maybe this is the performance one gets with a gtx 1060 6gb in 1080p on ultra settings in the Sims 4. Maybe the card isn't capable of more.

Here another 10 minute log I made after I did what you suggested: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12GCMtRarpanOZ9j7zxl1BJJg5ZjJgBPt/view?usp=sharing

What I am going to try now is to play around with v-sync and maybe disable the Sims 4 one and use NVIDIA v-sync or I will try installing the game in D drive. I know it makes no sense that the problem would be which hard drive the game is on but since the Sims 4 is the only game in my SSD and also my only game not working I guess it's worth a try. 

@SimmerGeorge  You certainly don't need to worry about disappointing me.  After all, you're the one whose computer isn't cooperating.

Just to double-check, these tests are in a new save in a clean Sims 4 user folder, with absolutely no content transferred from your old user folder?  No mods or custom content, no old sims, nothing?  If you haven't done that yet, please try it now.

San Myshuno isn't the best place to test your framerates.  The world is not exactly optimized, and pretty much everyone has at least relatively poor performance there.  I usually test in Willow Creek, then compare it with Sulani, although most other worlds (not Del Sol Valley) are fine.  Please also test with post processing disabled in-game—I've noticed some strange fps drops with it enabled, not a steady hit but more like random lower framerates that don't correlate to any obvious cause.

I'd also be interested to see an hwinfo log with no vertical sync enabled at all.  I know the screen tearing is bad, but at least see how the graphics card performs when it's not limited.  Then you can compare it with the effects of enabling vertical sync or setting a max frame rate within the Nvidia Control Panel.

Your graphics card should absolutely be capable of running Sims 4 on ultra settings.  The hwinfo logs show it's not working hard at all, really nowhere near its theoretical capacity, and that's the reason why you're seeing such poor performance.  The stubborn question is why.

I have to admit I am exhausted from doing so many tests the last week but I thought I'd get it over with and tried a few more. I played for only like 15-20 minutes though:

First I tried disabling v-sync in game and had nvidia set to "use 3d application setting" for v-sync. The screen-tearing was terrible, fps reached max 104fps or something and min 28fps with drops and spikes all the time. The save I use, like with the last log too, is the new save created after re-installing, the folder is brand new and there is absolutely nothing from the old folder in there. The old folder is saved away in an external hard drive atm. 

When I did this I noticed GPU power slightly raised, but memory load stayed the same and CPU usage in still really low (which could be normal for this game?) 

"no game v-sync, 3d application setting" link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TRfdyqOWGG9E7lhWfzSB9rz5IPDpBseK/view?usp=sharing

Then I went into my NVIDIA control panel and decided I wanted to change v-sync from "let 3d application decide" to "off" just to be sure. The fps stayed at around the same range as above but I noticed a big difference in screen-tearing, is was a lot less noticable, though still visibly there: 

So here's the link to "no game v-sync, nvidia v-sync off" :  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YH472UExpo_3YCfVhYeuFhVOCpew-57l/view?usp=sharing

Finally, I tried to play with no v-sync (either game or nvidia) and no post-processing effects. The fps did improve but didn't really become stable, it just had larger spikes. For example it still reached 28-30 while zoomed out observing an area but it was more rare. During normal gameplay in a busy lot it stayed between 60 and 40 but in residential lots, depending on what the screen was showing it went up to 180 fps pretty often. Also even though the fps got better, the game looked terrible without post-processing effects. Without the blur you can see the low quality set dressing all around the detailed active area in ultra settings and it is super yuck in my eyes. If Post-processing does indeed end up being the problem I'd rather play a this low fps mess than turn this setting off again :P

Here's the link to that then, "no v-sync, no post-processing": https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ku7bG6n9qrk47L03HVPDL1Z2G1M4XJCL/view?usp=sharing

In this logs I am usually jumping into the game right off the bat, not more than a minute waiting so take that into consideration. Usually the way I test this is starting in a residential area and the going to different community lots in Windenburg, Brindleton Bay, Britechester and then back to a residential area. 

Another thing I will try is playing another game from Origin and making a log. The only Origin game I play regurarly is the Sims 4 so I should test another game just to see if I face the same issues. 

Also a question, when uninstalling the Sims 4 on Reno, the game was listed as a 32-Bit application. Is that supposed to be this way? I'm sure I am playing 64-Bit since I am getting the updates and everything but I thought I'd ask. 

Now I have to say the amount of research we are doing on this game's performance in this thread is crazy haha, it's almost like playtesting for a game company.  

@SimmerGeorge  If you don't want to go without post processing, that's fine.  Your GPU performance was actually more unsteady with the setting disabled, so at the very least, it's probably not going to help.

Interestingly, with the in-game v-sync setting disabled, your GPU did perform somewhat better, although it's still unsteady.  But at least it was running at its peak clock speed for much of the time, and also maintaining a higher core load.  Here are the two readings for the first and second tests:

The question is why the load drops, even though the card still has a high enough workload available.  I'm sure you're tired of experimenting, so why not try everything at once?  Please do all of the following, together:

• Leave the in-game v-sync option disabled
• Leave the Nvidia v-sync disabled as well
• Clean boot the PC: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/929135/how-to-perform-a-clean-boot-in-windows
• When it reboots but before playing, go through the Task Manager's background processes list and shut down anything still running that isn't critical—anything from RGB software to MSI Afterburner might still be running
• Completely disable any antivirus you have
• Sign into Origin, put it in offline mode, then take your computer completely offline, as in, disable wifi and/or unplug the ethernet cable
• Disable Origin in-game (even though it shouldn't matter while offline): hover over your username, select Application Settings, then the Origin in-game header, and disable the option at the top
• Start logging, then launch the game
• And as always, clean user folder, no existing content, etc.

Let me know how the fps looks, and of course I'll be happy to see another hwinfo log.  Just so you know, I'm asking someone else who's better at this than I am to look at this too, so I don't miss anything useful.

@puzzlezaddict Good day. I tried what you suggested just now. I followed your instructions carefully and did everything with no issue. However one thing I couldn't manage was to get rid of Cortana and Microsoft Edge from running in the background, which is almost impossible. I tried ending the task, disabling the programs in settings and restarting, didn't work, they kept running in the background. 

As for the Anti-virus, I only use Windows Defender which I successfully disabled after restarting along with the firewall. 

Here's the link to the log:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1delbd9ROGKpm1EP7h5in_-eVMvUdCDM8/view?usp=sharing

One thing I noticed this time around is that (I think) the GPU performance was a bit more stable in the beggining but then it started losing stability completely after like 15-20 minutes. I don't know if that is true or not, so it would be great if you checked for me. I don't know If I did anything to cause the performance to be unstable again. In the beggining I spent some time in CAS and just Sulani at home, I think the instability started when I visited community lots in other worlds. Or another thing I changed halfway during gameplay (which probably has no correlation but I'll mention anyway) was that I turned on The Sims 3 camera which was off for the first 15 minutes. 

Also for every log I make I delete the Sims 4 folder to have a fresh one.

One theory I have developed over the course of doing this is that maybe the real problem is my proccessor. The Sims 4 is a weirdly made game and if I'm not mistaken not so well-optimized in general. It's also pretty old right now. I own a Ryzen processor and the AMD Ryzen series only launched in 2017, so 3 years after the release of the game. My assumption is that the game just isn;t well-compatible with the Ryzen processors and the team didn't think it was a problem important enough to fix, since many Simmers either play in systems older than 2017 or they play on laptops which rarely have Ryzen processors, they mostly have Intel.

I think the processor could be bottlenecking my GPU because in order for the GPU to work harder it needs the CPU to work harder. Now if the game can only utilize max 30% of my CPU power but the GPU needs more than that to function at it's best then it hits a ceiling and cannot go over it unless it finds a way to utilize more CPU power. 

It's just a theory I have, since I know many Sims players have the gtx 1060 6gb card and most say it works fine. But I don't know many Sims players with my particular CPU. 

Hi @SimmerGeorge 

I am the person @puzzlezaddict  refereed to as "someone else who's better at this than I am" which may or may not be true. 😉

First I like to address your other thread about EA support, and wile I will not comment on the quality of that support, in your case there is just very little they can do.

The support of a gaming developer is for problems caused by the game, in your case it is very unlikely that this is a game problem and much more likely that it is a problem with other components on your system, and then it is jut not something EA would be responsible for nor something they could provide support for.

For your theory it is true that your system as a whole is underperforming when you use Sims 4, so it can't be ruled out, that is why I asked Puzzle to see to a newer Bios that might address that problem.  (Unfortunately the only newer BIOS that is available for your board is a beta BIOS, so we should take this as a last resort.)

But I don't think that there is a general problem between the game and AMDs Zen possessors. We would see much more feedback in this regard here if that would be the case.

After all what was done I like to get a fresh overview of your system. Please create a new DxDiag and attach it to your next post.