@puzzlezaddict Yes it is strange indeed so I looked in my case just to triple-check. It does say A320M PRO-M2 V2 on the motherboard and strangely enough I cannot find it marked as 7B84 anywhere eventhough it says so in my msconfig.
Anyway I will do the BIOS update now and then the Chipset update and since it's pretty late here I will probably play-test tomorrow and let you know.
@puzzlezaddict So ehmm weird thing. I put the files from the latest update on my flash drive. Booted the BIOS menu, inserted the USB flash drive and clicked on M-Flash.
By that time the menu was already very laggy. I clicked on the update file and it took 2 minutes to respond, then I clicked yes I want to install and at first it didn't respond at all for 3 minutes and then the PC turned itself off and botted back to the BIOS menu.
Update was not completed, the BIOS date is still 01/30/2019. Seems like something went wrong? Maybe wrong file type? I downloaded from the link I showed you
Oh man this is so complicated 😭🤣
@SimmerGeorge The 7B84 designation is also in your dxdiag, and that's what I used to search for your motherboard, which led me to the B450 version of the board.
Let me get back to you on this. Or rather, let me find someone who knows better than I do, and either he'll get back to you or I will.
@SimmerGeorge Okay, one consult later, it's better to skip the BIOS update for now, given how the process went. Go ahead and install the chipset drivers, restart the computer, and get another hwinfo log.
Out of curiosity, what format does the USB stick you used have, and which port did you use? Is your computer still under warranty? I'm not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with it, just asking what the status is.
@puzzlezaddict Okay I installed the Chipset Drivers and did a new hwinfo log. Here's the link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19wQYwAlyhpGhasb7A_miaxPbPtNOKjxz/view?usp=sharing
As far as the confusion with the motherboard goes I can actually see through the transparent case that it's a a320m pro-m2 v2. At least that's what it says on it. Yet like I mentioned in msconfig it is listed as a a320m pro-m2 v2 (MS-7B84). Not sure if there's a difference there.
My USB format is FAT32 and I used a USB 3.0 port that came with my PC. I'm not sure about when my warranty expires from the place I got it Pre-built from. I would have to look around to find out but I bought the PC in Oktober 2019 so I'm guessing it must still be under warranty if I'm lucky.
Also the hardware has its own warranty that you get from the companies that make it like ZOTEC, MSI etc. which is handy in case something is wrong afterall. I really hope my PC is fine though. I saved up so long to get it and it's such a shame I'm having issues.
I also thought that maybe I should try doing a hwinfo log with another, more demanding game, just to see if there will be any difference? What do you think of that?
@puzzlezaddict Okay so I guess my most recent reply got deleted so I'll post it again.
Here's the link from the gameplay after the Chipset Driver update: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19wQYwAlyhpGhasb7A_miaxPbPtNOKjxz/view?usp=sharing
The USB I used was in FAT32 Format and I connected it with a USB 3.0 Port that came with my PC.
I'm not entirely sure if my PC is still under warranty. I bought it in October of 2019 so if it has a 2-year warranty I guess it still is under it. However I also have the seperate warranties that came with my hardware and I think they are still active. I am not sure how it works with hardware warranties from the manufacturers like ZOTAC, MSI on a Pre-bult PC.
I also thought that maybe I should do a hwinfo log playing another game? Maybe there's a different when I play other games and the problem is just the SIms 4? What do you think of that?
@SimmerGeorge Feel free to upload a log from another game. It would be interesting to compare the two side by side. I'll take a look at both later today.
@puzzlezaddict So I chose Final Fantasy XV as the different game because I figured it's more graphically demanding than the Sims 4. I never really noticed any issues with it, except for like a crash once or twice which is allegedly a normal thing with a certain area in this game.
Here's the link to that: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P4ZNHFuUGk6_nArGfIrH4-bIUgnKqcxb/view?usp=sharing
Also I start playing around the 7-9 minute mark with this one.
@SimmerGeorge Your hardware is certainly performing as expected, or close enough, in the other game. So the question is why it doesn't work harder in Sims 4 specifically. I know you've tried uninstalling the game, using a clean folder, clearing Origin's cache, etc., but I (and more importantly, the much wiser second opinion) think it's time to do everything together.
Start by uninstalling Sims 4:
Next, uninstall Origin:
Next, download and install Origin—the regular version, not the beta. Here's the direct download link:
http://download.dm.origin.com/origin/live/OriginSetup.exe
Be sure to run both the installer and Origin itself as an admin: right-click on each and select "Run as Administrator." When it's reinstalled, download Sims 4; you can just download the base game, to save time, if you want.
Restart after installing and before playing, and allow the game to create a(nother) new user folder rather than reusing your existing one.
@puzzlezaddict Okay so I don't want to dissapoint you but I don't know I think it didn't work. I did everything you listed today, took me almost 2 hours to complete, deleted the cache, removed the folder an renamed it, unistalled the whole thing with Revo, both the game and then Origin, did the scan, deleted the leftovers. I did everything together and it still didn't work. I just tried to ultimate test, I put a Spa in San Myshuno and visited it with a sim and I got max 50 fps when zoomed in and staying completely still with the camera, and when I tried to rotate around the building (like in normal gameplay, not too zoomed out) I got fps in the 20s, for a second I hit 19 fps haha.
I tried playing with vsync off right after reinstalling but the screen tearing is so bad, even though the fps isn't very high. But I have to say I had 120 fps in my isolated residential home lot and a second later 40 fps in a community lot. One would think this is definitely a hardware issue but I really almost never had problems with other games. I play Smite, FFXV with no problems but since I don't play a lot of games I couldn't tell you. It could very well be a hardware issue but Smite and FFXV just work for some reason?
Maybe this is just how it is, maybe this is the performance one gets with a gtx 1060 6gb in 1080p on ultra settings in the Sims 4. Maybe the card isn't capable of more.
Here another 10 minute log I made after I did what you suggested: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12GCMtRarpanOZ9j7zxl1BJJg5ZjJgBPt/view?usp=sharing
What I am going to try now is to play around with v-sync and maybe disable the Sims 4 one and use NVIDIA v-sync or I will try installing the game in D drive. I know it makes no sense that the problem would be which hard drive the game is on but since the Sims 4 is the only game in my SSD and also my only game not working I guess it's worth a try.
@SimmerGeorge You certainly don't need to worry about disappointing me. After all, you're the one whose computer isn't cooperating.
Just to double-check, these tests are in a new save in a clean Sims 4 user folder, with absolutely no content transferred from your old user folder? No mods or custom content, no old sims, nothing? If you haven't done that yet, please try it now.
San Myshuno isn't the best place to test your framerates. The world is not exactly optimized, and pretty much everyone has at least relatively poor performance there. I usually test in Willow Creek, then compare it with Sulani, although most other worlds (not Del Sol Valley) are fine. Please also test with post processing disabled in-game—I've noticed some strange fps drops with it enabled, not a steady hit but more like random lower framerates that don't correlate to any obvious cause.
I'd also be interested to see an hwinfo log with no vertical sync enabled at all. I know the screen tearing is bad, but at least see how the graphics card performs when it's not limited. Then you can compare it with the effects of enabling vertical sync or setting a max frame rate within the Nvidia Control Panel.
Your graphics card should absolutely be capable of running Sims 4 on ultra settings. The hwinfo logs show it's not working hard at all, really nowhere near its theoretical capacity, and that's the reason why you're seeing such poor performance. The stubborn question is why.
I have to admit I am exhausted from doing so many tests the last week but I thought I'd get it over with and tried a few more. I played for only like 15-20 minutes though:
First I tried disabling v-sync in game and had nvidia set to "use 3d application setting" for v-sync. The screen-tearing was terrible, fps reached max 104fps or something and min 28fps with drops and spikes all the time. The save I use, like with the last log too, is the new save created after re-installing, the folder is brand new and there is absolutely nothing from the old folder in there. The old folder is saved away in an external hard drive atm.
When I did this I noticed GPU power slightly raised, but memory load stayed the same and CPU usage in still really low (which could be normal for this game?)
"no game v-sync, 3d application setting" link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TRfdyqOWGG9E7lhWfzSB9rz5IPDpBseK/view?usp=sharing
Then I went into my NVIDIA control panel and decided I wanted to change v-sync from "let 3d application decide" to "off" just to be sure. The fps stayed at around the same range as above but I noticed a big difference in screen-tearing, is was a lot less noticable, though still visibly there:
So here's the link to "no game v-sync, nvidia v-sync off" : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YH472UExpo_3YCfVhYeuFhVOCpew-57l/view?usp=sharing
Finally, I tried to play with no v-sync (either game or nvidia) and no post-processing effects. The fps did improve but didn't really become stable, it just had larger spikes. For example it still reached 28-30 while zoomed out observing an area but it was more rare. During normal gameplay in a busy lot it stayed between 60 and 40 but in residential lots, depending on what the screen was showing it went up to 180 fps pretty often. Also even though the fps got better, the game looked terrible without post-processing effects. Without the blur you can see the low quality set dressing all around the detailed active area in ultra settings and it is super yuck in my eyes. If Post-processing does indeed end up being the problem I'd rather play a this low fps mess than turn this setting off again :P
Here's the link to that then, "no v-sync, no post-processing": https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ku7bG6n9qrk47L03HVPDL1Z2G1M4XJCL/view?usp=sharing
In this logs I am usually jumping into the game right off the bat, not more than a minute waiting so take that into consideration. Usually the way I test this is starting in a residential area and the going to different community lots in Windenburg, Brindleton Bay, Britechester and then back to a residential area.
Another thing I will try is playing another game from Origin and making a log. The only Origin game I play regurarly is the Sims 4 so I should test another game just to see if I face the same issues.
Also a question, when uninstalling the Sims 4 on Reno, the game was listed as a 32-Bit application. Is that supposed to be this way? I'm sure I am playing 64-Bit since I am getting the updates and everything but I thought I'd ask.
Now I have to say the amount of research we are doing on this game's performance in this thread is crazy haha, it's almost like playtesting for a game company.
@SimmerGeorge If you don't want to go without post processing, that's fine. Your GPU performance was actually more unsteady with the setting disabled, so at the very least, it's probably not going to help.
Interestingly, with the in-game v-sync setting disabled, your GPU did perform somewhat better, although it's still unsteady. But at least it was running at its peak clock speed for much of the time, and also maintaining a higher core load. Here are the two readings for the first and second tests:
The question is why the load drops, even though the card still has a high enough workload available. I'm sure you're tired of experimenting, so why not try everything at once? Please do all of the following, together:
Let me know how the fps looks, and of course I'll be happy to see another hwinfo log. Just so you know, I'm asking someone else who's better at this than I am to look at this too, so I don't miss anything useful.
@puzzlezaddict Good day. I tried what you suggested just now. I followed your instructions carefully and did everything with no issue. However one thing I couldn't manage was to get rid of Cortana and Microsoft Edge from running in the background, which is almost impossible. I tried ending the task, disabling the programs in settings and restarting, didn't work, they kept running in the background.
As for the Anti-virus, I only use Windows Defender which I successfully disabled after restarting along with the firewall.
Here's the link to the log: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1delbd9ROGKpm1EP7h5in_-eVMvUdCDM8/view?usp=sharing
One thing I noticed this time around is that (I think) the GPU performance was a bit more stable in the beggining but then it started losing stability completely after like 15-20 minutes. I don't know if that is true or not, so it would be great if you checked for me. I don't know If I did anything to cause the performance to be unstable again. In the beggining I spent some time in CAS and just Sulani at home, I think the instability started when I visited community lots in other worlds. Or another thing I changed halfway during gameplay (which probably has no correlation but I'll mention anyway) was that I turned on The Sims 3 camera which was off for the first 15 minutes.
Also for every log I make I delete the Sims 4 folder to have a fresh one.
One theory I have developed over the course of doing this is that maybe the real problem is my proccessor. The Sims 4 is a weirdly made game and if I'm not mistaken not so well-optimized in general. It's also pretty old right now. I own a Ryzen processor and the AMD Ryzen series only launched in 2017, so 3 years after the release of the game. My assumption is that the game just isn;t well-compatible with the Ryzen processors and the team didn't think it was a problem important enough to fix, since many Simmers either play in systems older than 2017 or they play on laptops which rarely have Ryzen processors, they mostly have Intel.
I think the processor could be bottlenecking my GPU because in order for the GPU to work harder it needs the CPU to work harder. Now if the game can only utilize max 30% of my CPU power but the GPU needs more than that to function at it's best then it hits a ceiling and cannot go over it unless it finds a way to utilize more CPU power.
It's just a theory I have, since I know many Sims players have the gtx 1060 6gb card and most say it works fine. But I don't know many Sims players with my particular CPU.
I am the person @puzzlezaddict refereed to as "someone else who's better at this than I am" which may or may not be true. 😉
First I like to address your other thread about EA support, and wile I will not comment on the quality of that support, in your case there is just very little they can do.
The support of a gaming developer is for problems caused by the game, in your case it is very unlikely that this is a game problem and much more likely that it is a problem with other components on your system, and then it is jut not something EA would be responsible for nor something they could provide support for.
For your theory it is true that your system as a whole is underperforming when you use Sims 4, so it can't be ruled out, that is why I asked Puzzle to see to a newer Bios that might address that problem. (Unfortunately the only newer BIOS that is available for your board is a beta BIOS, so we should take this as a last resort.)
But I don't think that there is a general problem between the game and AMDs Zen possessors. We would see much more feedback in this regard here if that would be the case.
After all what was done I like to get a fresh overview of your system. Please create a new DxDiag and attach it to your next post.
@holger1405 Hey hey, thanks for taking time to help haha. It's so awesome people are so helpful in here.
Just to clear things up I have to add that my complaint on the other thread is not about me finding a solution to my problem not about me thinking the issue is caused by the game and the game alone. It's more that, no matter what kind of a technical issue one is facing, there shouldn't be advisors telling people to launch video games in safe mode. It was more about having competent people who take time to listen to the issue rather than read down a list of possible solutions that aren't nearly related to the problem, or even are destructive.
I was thinking about trying to update my BIOS again and I'm really almost convinced it could work but first I am going to write an E-mail to the company that built my PC and ask them for their help on choosing the correct BIOS for my computer. They have my specs in their database and know the most about my system so hopefully they will provide me with the right update. It can take some time for them to reply but I'll let you know as soon as they do.
I just updated my DxDiag on my original post.
Thanks in advance for your help.
SimmerGeorge wrote:
there shouldn't be advisors telling people to launch video games in safe mode.
Well, that is true. 😃
Before you update the BIOS, and it is not nearly as dangerous as some seem to think, 😉 I would recommend a different approach, namely to upgrade to the newest Windows build.
You are still on Windows build 18363. That build will lose support in Mai 2021, so you need to update soon anyway.
To make this clear, you don't have a performance problem in the sense of the word.
This has nothing to do with the game getting "bigger" and your CPU could not handle it. The HWinfo logs show clearly that neither your CPU nor your GPU are utilized as they should be.
@holger1405 Do you know why my Windows update doesn't automatically suggest those new build updates?
I could download them manually though. Can I just install the latest 20H2 version or do I have install them one after the other?
Many possible reasons, but not easy to determine. The update will most probably take care of that issue as well.
You can directly install 20H2. Easiest way is to use MS Edge to go to this MS side.
Than click on "Update now", download the Update exe, run it and let Windows do its work.
@holger1405 The company that built my PC just contacted me. They said I do have an A320M Pro installed inside, but it just happens that MSI uses the term MS-7B84 for both my and the B450 motherboards.
They said my BIOS could have failed due to issues with the USB not being read correctly. To be honest I do think there's something more happening there. When I tried the BIOS Update the first time the USB I wanted to use got corrupt after putting the BIOS files in there, since I always double-check everything, I took a second look in my USB contents before doing the update and found the flash drive had created tons of files, all with unreadable names like "78($%+_aθι" and so on. So I just redownloaded the BIOS files, put them in another (kind of cheap 4GB FAT32) USB and tried -the now failed- BIOS update. I also did a Windows Defender scan later on, but nothing came up.
Maybe I should get a new USB for this update, not sure but I think I'm certain the issue with the update came from the sytem not being able to read the USB files correctly.
Also I did do the 20H2 update, thanks again! 🙂
For now I am waiting on what the company (called Megaport, if you're German you might know them) is going to suggest, unless you have anything else you can suggest?
So the performance after the update did not changed at all?
From the Windows build update? Idk I still can't zoom out to view the whole are without my fps dropping to 28 and in community lots the more sims come, the lower it drops reaching 27-35 average. I don't know, should I make a video or something?
This is my latest log: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-FMu6W-RthuAjChqOgYIYHNy95oM6j_L/view?usp=sharing
I also updated my DxDiag. Is there anything we haven't tried yet?
Did you heard back from Megaport?
And no, a video is not necessary.
Now that we are on the newest chipset driver and Windows build I like to focus on the driver.
@holger1405 Yes, Megaport did actually reply after viewing my logs and said everything with the hardware should be fine, if I have been experiencing issues with a certain game (but not all my games) then they unfortunately cannot provide any specific game support (which is understable).
Thank you for sending me this manual. I did everything exactly as this manual suggested. Since you can't really tell, you'd have to trust me on that one. I paid a lot of attention (since I am honestly also getting tired of the situation). As always I made a new log after finishing up the process https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uwTp3iv9_lsVFiWMgH2SoUqce1rTAkE7/view?usp=sharing
I used another fresh Sims 4 folder for this log aswell.
From an fps point of view I have to say I am not facing any issues in residential lots. The big problems happen when I visit community lots, especially in areas like Britechester or the pier area with the bar and lounge in Brindelton Bay or even some Newcrest areas that have a lot of lots. Generally, where there are Sims, lots of objects and water the fps drops to the 20-30s almost instantly. I still have this issue this time around, though I might be wrong but it seems a little more stable now. It's just those massive drop in GPU usage I cannot understand that happen for several minutes at a time, especially towards the end.
I do not think there's hope here, I have literally cleanly uninstalled and reinstalled everything even a bit related to the game's performance. It must be something else and even if it is, I doubt it is fixable at this point.
As always, I immensly apprieciate any help or suggestion you might have and if you have any other I will gladly try them. And thanks a lot again!
Ok, your GPU clocks look considerable better in this last HWInfo log than in the first one.
The GPU usage is hard to compare for me.
With my RTX 3080 I get 144FPS (Caped) in normal game play, but even with this GPU I get FPS droops to 60 - 70 if I zoom out to max.
But the GPU goes never over 30% usage and I have no way itm to compare usage of a 1060.
@puzzlezaddict certainly knows more about the typical usage of different GPUs in the Sims 4 than I do.
@holger1405 Yeah again this whole thing could be fully normal. This is why I named the thread the way I named it when I first started the thread. I simply assumed that 30fps when zommed out was normal for my card in the Sims 4. But then again, how unstable can a game be when you get min 100 to max 180 fps in small residential lots and then suddenly min 28 to max 60fps in community lots. It's such a crazy difference. Are few more sims and few more objects so incredibly demanding that you lose so much fps?
Coincidentally I did try the maximum performance thing out yesterday after looking around in the NVIDIA settings and made a really short log with it, since I didn't notice that much of an fps difference in community lots, only thing I noticed was that the fps for once didn't drop below 30 and it stayed at min 33 fps but I thought that nothing really changed so I got bored and exited the game and stopped the log. I could make a longer one if needed. This is the one I did yetserday. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZJEwlb_LF58jIr4WdZwiQEh4huKuMFS8/view?usp=sharing
I would really love to compare my performance or at least know what the gtx1060 6gb is in general capable of, in order to understand if this is a normal occurence or not. Maybe someone who knows about how certain cards perform like @puzzlezaddict or someone from EA could comment, because I know some EA people have seen this thread but didn't feel it was neccesary to step in. Maybe now is a good time?
