I hope we get open worlds in this game.

"Sarah26Cat;c-18269407" wrote:
I hated rabbitholes in Sims 3 as well. But I loved being able to pop back and forth between my sims on various lots and not have them starting over from being run on automatic. Sims 4 tends to have everyone starving or worse when that happens. Plus it was less emersion breaking not having that screen in between. For Sims 5 I wouldn't mind it if they had several experiences as rabbitholes at first, as long as they build it in such a way that those rabbitholes would eventually disappear. Though EA probably knows their newest competitors have advertised "No Rabbitholes!" Depending on what they have so far, it makes sense for EA to try and replicate this.

You need to enable autonomy. With autonomy on, no one starves, they are very good at taking care of their own needs. As for the rabbitholes, why bother leaving the home lot in the first place? You complain that the loading screen is immersion breaking, but once you load the lot you get a fully playable lot with thigs to do. To me it felt more immersion breaking to go one minute with the car around the neighbourhood only to reach a rabbithole restaurant and then come back. It felt pointless to leave the lot and more like it was a detour from gameplay. The rabbithole theater in TS4 feels the same, you leave the lot only to then wait patiently outside the theater for the movie to finish and get your sim back. The fact is TS3 catered very well to those simmers who don't like leaving their home lot, those simmers that play full house on 64x64 lots and still complain that the lots are too small, but completely ignored simmers that play several households in rotation or those that like and enjoy to use community lots and gameplay.

I never understand the complaint about habit holes.Most of them were career lots .It's not like at four you could visit going to military baae, restaurant in the base game either

TBH yeah haha. And the bistro in TS3 you had the choice to sit outside and eat your food. There were so many other lots that weren't rabbit holes, so I personally don't mind some only having a pop up screen to shop or waiting till they exit. It is at least better in an open world setting where if you have other sims you can go to them and do other gameplay. In TS4, if you go to the movie theater in San Sequoia, you have to stay at that lot and wait, or are forced to bring your other household members there if you want to play them. I just personally prefer an open neighborhood/world concept as it grants more player freedom.

"Horrorgirl6;c-18270018" wrote:
I never understand the complaint about habit holes.Most of them were career lots .It's not like at four you could visit going to military baae, restaurant in the base game either

I find that the problem was that half of your "downtown" were these dead buildings where Sims vanish in the ether and interact with nothing else. This was especially notable given that many of these would be customer facing venues IRL (the grocery store, bookstore, spa, theatre, diner, bistro), and some of these were open in TS2 (Grocery stores and restaurants), and never rectified it to any meaningful extent (we got a cash register in WA, and a store content bistro oven).

This also brings the question of do we need these rabbit holes in the world? How much would people's experience change if the carpool just drove Sims to the edge of the world, beyond the view of the camera or into a tunnel and despawned, reappearing at the end of their shift? It would've avoided all the routing issues of many Sims trying to enter the same building at once. It would also avoid the weird immersion breaking issues of having the nation's President operate out of a small town's city hall, or an international spy operating out of a local police department, and the opposite end of the spectrum where a quaint small suburban town suddenly had to accommodate a major sports arena, military airfield and a nine storey corporate headquarters - it seems even the developers got sick of this in later worlds as they started to merge many of them together. And I suspect it is why we got a very limited number of new rabbit hole careers after the base game: only four new rabbit hole workplaces: the film studio, fortune-tellers wagon, the stellar observatory and the plumbot arena - all other new careers were squeezed into existing rabbit holes, even where it doesn't really make sense, such as the art appraiser operating out of the criminal warehouse, even though only one branch of the career is criminal.

"Coconut27;c-18270182" wrote:
TBH yeah haha. And the bistro in TS3 you had the choice to sit outside and eat your food.

Which had no waiters, Sims just went in, then back out again with a random plate of food, and sit themselves at a random table, not necessarily with whoever they came with. The Bistro was a glorified vending machine.

"Coconut27;c-18270182" wrote:
There were so many other lots that weren't rabbit holes, so I personally don't mind some only having a pop up screen to shop or waiting till they exit.

Which brings us to the other half of your downtown. These random, generic lots that have no special function aside from encouraging Sims to do certain activities more frequently. There was nothing special or unique about them, nothing that was otherwise unaccessible to Sims on your home lot. Gym equipment and books aren't that expensive in the Sims 3 so rarely would you need to go to the gym or the library, likewise the art gallery or the park offered anything you couldn't do at home. This is a problem that persists in the Sims 4. The main, and arguably only, function of these lots is to meet other Sims.

Way back, in the Sims 1 (and to a lesser extent, the Sims 2), there were specific and exclusive activities that could only be done on community lots. There were carnival games, dining, shops and services, things that you couldn't do at home. If you wanted to progress in game or magic, you HAD to go to their respective subhoods. They had unique NPCs that provided services and just generally added character to the world.

I want open worlds to return in some capacity in the TS5, but I do believe it should not use TS3 as its template.

"Thetford;c-18274260" wrote:

I want open worlds to return in some capacity in the TS5, but I do believe it should not use TS3 as its template.

I think that with the advances computers have had since 2009, it would be very cheap to go with a Sims 3 template for anything. I certainly hope they are starting from scratch creating the program.

I agree with a lot you said. Rabbitholes were a cheap solution to their inability to program an active community lot. I definitely hope sims 5 does away with them. That being said, I wouldn't mind if initially there are rabbitholes, or places where your Sims disappear off the map for, as long as they are eventually opened up and become an active lot.

I still would be enjoying TS3, except that it takes nearly 30 minutes to open up a saved game. I know custom content played into that, but TS3 did have its technical flaws. It's one of the reasons I'm so eager for a new open world Simulation game to come out. The question is which company will that one be?

"Thetford;c-18274260" wrote:

"Horrorgirl6;c-18270018" wrote:
I never understand the complaint about habit holes.Most of them were career lots .It's not like at four you could visit going to military baae, restaurant in the base game either

I find that the problem was that half of your "downtown" were these dead buildings where Sims vanish in the ether and interact with nothing else. This was especially notable given that many of these would be customer facing venues IRL (the grocery store, bookstore, spa, theatre, diner, bistro), and some of these were open in TS2 (Grocery stores and restaurants), and never rectified it to any meaningful extent (we got a cash register in WA, and a store content bistro oven).

This also brings the question of do we need these rabbit holes in the world? How much would people's experience change if the carpool just drove Sims to the edge of the world, beyond the view of the camera or into a tunnel and despawned, reappearing at the end of their shift? It would've avoided all the routing issues of many Sims trying to enter the same building at once. It would also avoid the weird immersion breaking issues of having the nation's President operate out of a small town's city hall, or an international spy operating out of a local police department, and the opposite end of the spectrum where a quaint small suburban town suddenly had to accommodate a major sports arena, military airfield and a nine storey corporate headquarters - it seems even the developers got sick of this in later worlds as they started to merge many of them together. And I suspect it is why we got a very limited number of new rabbit hole careers after the base game: only four new rabbit hole workplaces: the film studio, fortune-tellers wagon, the stellar observatory and the plumbot arena - all other new careers were squeezed into existing rabbit holes, even where it doesn't really make sense, such as the art appraiser operating out of the criminal warehouse, even though only one branch of the career is criminal.

"Coconut27;c-18270182" wrote:
TBH yeah haha. And the bistro in TS3 you had the choice to sit outside and eat your food.

Which had no waiters, Sims just went in, then back out again with a random plate of food, and sit themselves at a random table, not necessarily with whoever they came with. The Bistro was a glorified vending machine.

"Coconut27;c-18270182" wrote:
There were so many other lots that weren't rabbit holes, so I personally don't mind some only having a pop up screen to shop or waiting till they exit.

Which brings us to the other half of your downtown. These random, generic lots that have no special function aside from encouraging Sims to do certain activities more frequently. There was nothing special or unique about them, nothing that was otherwise unaccessible to Sims on your home lot. Gym equipment and books aren't that expensive in the Sims 3 so rarely would you need to go to the gym or the library, likewise the art gallery or the park offered anything you couldn't do at home. This is a problem that persists in the Sims 4. The main, and arguably only, function of these lots is to meet other Sims.

Way back, in the Sims 1 (and to a lesser extent, the Sims 2), there were specific and exclusive activities that could only be done on community lots. There were carnival games, dining, shops and services, things that you couldn't do at home. If you wanted to progress in game or magic, you HAD to go to their respective subhoods. They had unique NPCs that provided services and just generally added character to the world.

I want open worlds to return in some capacity in the TS5, but I do believe it should not use TS3 as its template.

I do not think if they do bring back open worlds or open neighborhoods it will not be that template if anything they may expand on Sims 4 template and give extras as well. As said technology has advanced very quickly since 2014 and since they will be on a 64-bit platform, they should be able to do more, much more that what Sims 4 offer even if Sims 4 converted to a 64-bit platform but the advances still will skip Sims 4 as they did not do much with it.

I mean the sims 4 has generic lots too haha. the new recreation center is a glorified gym/library in one. I think that is just a sims thing in general haha.

i like open worlds

I care less about open worlds/neighborhoods and more about the ability to create my own. If I ever have to use a Maxis made world/neighborhood again, it will be too soon.

The only disadvantage of an open world would probably be fewer players because lots of people may not have the best computers to run a detailed open world in the best quality. They need to have a good dedicated graphics card. This will of course limit the consumer base to regular gamers instead of just people who game casually or occasionally.