Re: [Suggestion] F1 2023 (or F1 20xx) - ERS Model Overhaul

@yrek150 Would be the exact same flickering as in 2019, trust me.. Besides the ERS does work differently ingame, the modes dont change your charging rate, only how much power you deploy..

Huge exploit potential and a lot of work to change it to something like this. It would be a more realistic but Esports guys would do it exactly like this: Overtake or quali for the acceleration zones in which you dont harvest anyway, from 280kph onwards mode 1 or 2 and for the braking, which is the point of the track where you charge by far the most, they go to mode 1.. Then for traction maybe Mode 3 and back up to mode 4/5..

FYI in 2019 the modes only changed from 15% deployment in "low" to ~60% deployment in "overtake/hotlap".. Not really much difference to yours regarding the "benefit" being smaller..

Its a cool idea but sadly not the fix, sorry

@yrek150 Of course we can always lock things etc. but this would A) encourage the wrath of Mario and you dont want him to come at you with all his knowledge about the actual physics behind it😜 and B) still wouldnt fix it. They wouldnt use overtake unless they truly want to overtake which in Esports they most often dont want, they want to keep their battery high and overtake near the end. Also would be not realistic either..

There are ways to fix it for a career mode (damage to the CE with each mode change - its not too unrealistic) but they wouldnt help with single races except for when you scale it up for those which then wouldnt be realistic again.. I dont think there is a solution for the flickering that will make everybody happy. For me personally 2 fully mappable modes + full power overtake and CE damage per change would be cool but everybody has a different opinion on this which is fine, most ideas would be interesting concepts just sometimes easy to exploit😄

Obviously all our suggestions are for F1 23 at this point, we should all be on the same page there🙂

@Meza994

I read that too, that the charge mode itself did not change in F1 2018 / F1 2019, and that only the rate of deployment did.

So how about we add yet another feature on top of what @yrek150 and i (in my original post at the beginning of this thread) have already proposed:

Imagine that we can only change the ERS mode (or SOC) when the team gives us the greenlight to do so!

For example, a few scenarios and how it would play out:

1. Fresh out of the pits, 80+% ERS available, clean air in front, car in front is more than 10 seconds ahead. Team gives us the order to change ERS Mode (or SOC) to a higher rate, because of all the parameters mentioned above to attack. Once we go to a certain level of ERS used, for example less than 20%, the team will tell us to reduce the ERS mode to charge some energy.

2. Stuck behind and inbetween 4 cars, a train, only around 8% ERS left, engine (or rather the Battery / Turbo Charger / MGUK / MGUH) has some wear. Team orders us to lower the rate of ERS mode (or SOC) and preserve the car.

3. Start of the race, P16 in a Red Bull, Full ERS charge. Team does not give a order but, we can ask the engineer via the voice control / radio button if we can use a higher ERS Mode (or SOC) to attack.

4. Being in "no-mans-land", car ahead 10+ seconds, car behind 10+ seconds, we drive in a Alfa Romeo, engine is showing some little amount of wear, we are in P10 and in the points. Team orders us to use the normal or default ERS Mode (or SOC). We can ask the Team to use a higher or lower ERS Mode (or SOC).

In all 4 scenarios, we can not just randomly switch through ERS Modes from corner to corner, but we will always have to consult the engineer and the team, who will then give us either a green light and or tell us "No". This would certainly fix the issue of ERS abuse!!!

Of course this would be a lot of work for Codemasters, as there would be a lot of parameters to be included and to be wary of, but we can not forget that they are professional video game developers with years and decades of experience, and now also have pretty much almost unlimited funds via EA!!!

Codemaster, if they really wanted to (and or if the community really demands it), could easily do this in 1 or 2 years of development!!!

PS: This combination of proposal would make the experience much more realistic, as in real life the drivers NEVER change the ERS Mode (or SOC) randomly on their own and always consult with their team. Whilst it is specifically the team itself that usually determines if the driver is allowed to change the ERS, and when. Sometimes it is also only the team that can change the ERS for the driver from the pitwall.

@RedRevNow Its fairly close to real life but then again it takes it all away from us, pretty much forced what we have to deal with and the only thing we can change is overtake button.. Which is like it is IRL for the drivers but the game has long gone past "only driving the car".. Yet it would obviously have some fans that way. It would fix the flickering but also not give us freedom to decide ourself when to push or when to save battery

Could actually be the case i want to save battery when im in the middle of nowhere near the end to have battery to deploy at the end for fastest lap or push all out in order to be close enough because P9 has a penalty.. When the game dictates it it also kills the freedom.. Its extremely difficult to find something thats realistic in its approach, thats not killing the freedom yet killing the exploit. The funds or not unlimited, otherwise we would have multiple devs implementing new things into the handling model.. EA has endless money but will only ever give CM as much money as CM give EA back with sales..

@Dansmotorsport If you want pure realism you need to play a sim game, not Codemasters titles..

Its a fair opinion to only want the drivers work but then again you dont do much to the setup, dont ever do anything in MyTeam etc as the drivers dont do that.. Its a long list we got in the game that the drivers dont actually do.

Regarding charging: Esports guys save it just to always have enough, they dont need it unless they are in front and therefore save it for bad situations.. I know the deployment is lower at below 10%, you can see the battery drain slower while pushing "Overtake" above i wouldnt say so though. Also i found whats probably causing this in the data and it suggests that deployment is dropping from only 92% at 9% charge to 32% at 3% charge. Obviously these 92% and 32% are multiplied with your ERS mode. In short above 10% always full ERS mode deployment (overtake = 100%; standard = 30%)

Its also not accurate to say most players want the most realistic experience, most players just wanna have fun, whether this is achieved by arcadey means or full on realism differs from player to player. Balancing everything with "Overtake" is not like real life for example which bothers me, especially as IRL they use it much, much less than ingame.. The management is done by the team yet the player takes the teams part ingame.. Its a tough call. Personally id be settle with the ability to mod the deployment rate of the modes even if only one is available in the race. No flickering, a bit more freedom though and teams do exactly that, adapt the deployment for each track

@Meza994 I would play a more sim based game but I only really like f1 and there is nothing out there that’s console based other than f1 that has the f1 cars in it.

While I agree the my team isn’t anything really that the driver does (this is a fairly new thing to add some itching different and I like to be fair) the setup is and it’s crucial for the driver to have input in that and they decide with the team what setup to have. The amount of time they also put into the simulators back at base trying different things in setup is crazy and I think you’ll be very surprised at how much input they have if you was ever involved (yes I do know and I have been involved) the driver is always telling the engineer what the car is doing in practice but qually and race you very rarely hear from them unless they are struggling with tyres or discussing pit stops.

I would say it is that people want the cars to handle realistically and most accurate that most people want to jump in and play and not have to deal with changing ers modes etc.
The reason they use it less in real life is because it takes longer to recover irl and I believe this has been rectified in the new game having watched one of the YouTube content creators (can’t remember which one now) but even they said it takes more laps to recharge than before so you can’t just use overtake like previous games.

Yes the management of how much deployed and recovery at each part of the track is done by the team and pre set before the race but I don’t really see this as something that needs to be in the game in my opinion (as in us customise it) as I’m sure it’s already implemented in the game by codemasters just behind the scenes.

@Dansmotorsport The driver doesnt do the exact suspension work or anything like that.. He says what he feels is wrong and the engineers work out what might help it.. Its super rare that the driver is giving exact changes to suspension geometry etc. The drivers test things but how things actually do and what they should do to change certains things is majorly impacted by the engineers.. The engineers set up the simulators with what the drivers shall test. Obviously the driver feedback is absolutely necessary but still not the major setup work. Realistic would be something like you talk to the engineer and talk about oversteery tendency at corner entry which then would be changed in the setup with less front wing or more rear wing, the exacts could be worked out but the drivers 99% of the time dont go to the engineer and say "i want 10° angle on the front wing and 12.5° on the rear wing".. a click more or a click less is often happening yes.

Easy to jump in equals less realistic setups. I will agree thats what most want, because for most people the depth of setups is already too much while barely scratching the top of it. Many players want depth to the setup, engine modes (for the weekend), ERS mapping etc. For casuals they can simply put a casual setup in thats the always the same for the advanced stuff.. People who wanna jump in and play will never be fighting with esports guys so casual setup option will suffice for them.

Could also just be that they deploy more power IRL per lap instead of recovering less.. Same result..

Its not implemented by Codemasters behind the scenes.. Best examples are Spa vs Imola.. Imola you can barely recover energy while in Spa you have plenty and need to use overtake each lap.. Thats not optimised..

I dont see how more options is a bad thing, if you dont want to customise the ERS mapping you can just leave it. When Codemasters do a good base line mapping, that you can use you dont need to change it, only for best results but the game shouldnt ever be "you can get best results without going into depth with the setup" thats very unrealistic.